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Which CPU?

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gt24

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2003
Location
Ohio
I am getting a new computer, and while reading everything on the whole internet kinda helped, I still have questions. What do you think I should go with?

Athlon XP 1700+ JIUHB:0310XPMW (model AXDA1700DLT3C)
Athlon XP "Barton" (need more help in choosing a specific one though)

I got a A7N8X Deluxe motherboard, thus my questions now in choosing a processor for this board. I am willing to overclock, but I do have a question on that. Will overclocking harm the life of the CPU and other components on the computer (when done properly I mean)? If it does cause harm, would going with the Barton and doing less of an OC (voltage wise) be a wiser decision than going with the 1700+ and doing a bit more voltage?

Also, add in whatever comments you feel are helpful. I am posting a few other questions (most certainly one on heatsyncs) around the forum, but still, I would appreciate anybody's comments on my future system.
 
gt24 said:
Will overclocking harm the life of the CPU and other components on the computer (when done properly I mean)?
.

Yes. it will decrease the life of a chip. the question is, does the chip working for 10years vs 3 years matter to you? the answer to that question for most of us is "no." we upgrade our systems before the lifespan cut comes into play.


gt24 said:
If it does cause harm, would going with the Barton and doing less of an OC (voltage wise) be a wiser decision than going with the 1700+ and doing a bit more voltage?

Theoretically yes. but don't let that be a factor determining your purchase.


I personally recommend the 2500+. it oc's to 2200Mhz and often get to 2300 without any difficulty. A general rule of thumb is Bartons at X clockspeed = tbred at X clockspeed +100.
. [/B]
 
zabomb4163 said:
Welcome to the forums!!

I've been here for a while, but it will take ages before I get 50 posts, 100 posts, or must less 997 posts (cuing a few limits from around the forums). Still, thanks for the welcome, even though it is kinda late.

:)
 
if u go a 1700+ u would be looking to overclock it for sure

if u dont want to o/c a lot, probably the best barton would be 2500+/2600+

cheers
 
I would most likely overclock anyways but with the 1700 I would have to overclock quite a bit. With a Barton, I don't have to overclock so much and I don't even think (from what I heard) that I have to touch the voltage settings on that chip (mine might be different, but still). Also, the L2 cache (sorry if I got that wrong) on the Barton is twice that of a 1700, so I am not sure if that outperforms a 1700 and how. While it was stated that whatever speed I get on the Barton + 100 Mhz makes up the difference, I don't think the Bartons overclock quite as high as the 1700.

As for CPU lifetime, my first computer is now a proxy box on my home network. I am still using older computers in whatever tasks they are still good at. I would hate to have a computer die on me because it OCed for one too many years. Has anybody actually had this happen on them, by the way?
 
The average overclock for a 1700+ B is something like 2.2-2.3ghz, and this is with moderately good cooling and a slightly raised voltage. With a 2500 Barton, you would be likely to get a similar overclock with the +100 mhz modifier and less voltage (which also means longer proc life), meaning your cooling method would not have to be as noisy and your temperatures not high enough to make you sweat (though im not too sure about this since the barton has a slightly larger die size and consumes more watts thereby putting out more heat), not to mention the additional 256k of cache.

Then you must consider cost. Barton is not too much more expensive than the 1700, but does the cost ($20?) justify a 3% performance difference?
 
if you dont increase the voltage of your cpu when oc'ing i thought it wouldnt really affect the lifespan of the chip much. ami wrong?
 
a good stepping 1700+ will run 2.4Ghz and a good barton will do 2.3Ghz. the 100+ moddifer makes the barton system equal to the 1700+. The barton runs cooler than the 1700+ because it has 2x the die size and thus 2x the area for heat transfer to the heatsink.
 
Basically same results but with different processors. IMO the barton is better due to higher cache and higher FSB.
 
The FSB doesn't matter when overclocking, though, since an overclocked 1700+ can run very high FSBs just as well as an overclocked 2500+. The default FSB doesn't matter at all here.
 
Will overclocking harm the life of the CPU and other components on the computer (when done properly I mean)?

There are two kinds of overclocking.

Imagine, you buy a flat with 6 rooms. But in the advertisement, there was stated, that it is just only 4 rooms flat, and it costs just as it would 4 rooms size only. However, you clearly see, that it has 6 rooms. So, once you have bought it, will you use all the rooms, or only 4, just because some people on the earth wants you use only 4 ?

So, if you run your CPU at frequency which it could easily and effortlessly stand, it is not an overclocking in fact. It is just using your chip at his full potential, but not over it. It does not matter what the manufacturer of the chip wishes, you sould do with it (depending on how much you have payed for his product). If it can effortlessly and without overheating stand say 2.9 GHz, why not to use it at 2.9 GHz even it is stated to be 2.1 GHz CPU?

So, this kind of "overclocking" does NOT any harm to your CPU. But, here, the important thing to mention is, that the CPU should work in acceptable conditions. It means it should not be hot and not overvolted too much. Particular acceptable values (both temp and voltage) differs for each sort of CPU, so mention them here all would be a lot of typing.

The real overclocking is, when one tryes to squeeze every bit of performance. Using heatpumps (peltiers) and other special techniques to squeeze the absolutely maximum out of the CPU and feeding it by extremely high voltage, is what should be really called overclocking (or heavy overclocking). This can shorten the life of the CPU.
 
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Just depends on your preference. certain people use programs where the cache would see an improvement, others don't.
 
Why not get a 1700 DLT3C, 2100 tbred B, and a barton 2500 and see which one you would want. I have been thru 3 1700's, 5 2100's and no barton's yet but I like the 2100 tbred the best.
 
I'm not wanting to go through processor chip after processor chip.

Anymore, I am leaning towards the Barton even though it doesn't OC so much because it seems like a safer bet (with lower voltages) and I think it would fare up better than a normal XP...

good observations or no?
 
I'd like to mention something about "overclocking." There are several schools of thought as to what this actualy is. Here are my thoughts. The Barton, while it has an extra 256k cache, is a relatively poor overclocker. I've yet to see any significant gains made using these. That's basically due to the chips' highest model, which isn't much different MHz wise from it's lowest. And this is where the overclocking schools divide.

If you were to purchse a AXDA1700DUT3C or AXDA1700DLT3C, be lucky enough to find the JIUHB stepping, and most importantly week 02 through 08 in production, you'll be able to raise that CPU from it's default speed of 1.47GHz to 2.2GHz without actually "overclocking" in the strictest sense of the term. You see, based upon the manufacturing techniques implemented in CPU production, the exact same core which powers the Athlon 2800+ also powers the Athlon 1700+. Without getting too deep into manufacturing, this is due to cost. One "template" (actually up to 20) are used in the photolithographic process from which these cores are then etched, to be packaged accordingly. One template or photomask can cost $30,000. A FAb from which the wafers are made for these cores, can cost approximately $2.2-bilion, and that's for one 200mm, or 300mm wafer process. Therefore chipmakers produce the fastest CPU core possible, and then all consecutive processors are produced from that core design. They are then fixed by having their multiplier, and vcore set by the maker, based on the model number.

Albeit a 2800+ or 1700+ if the stepping is JIUHB then the last letter signifies the Thoroughbred-B core. Ergo, since the processor is sold "unlocked" YOU the consumer are free to change the multiplier and vcore. So your not really Overclocking anything, because you'll most likely be able to attain and safely maintain the default speed of the fastest model, using the slowest model because the core's are the same. I would consider overclocking, surpassing the defualt speed of the core-line and perhaps needing to raise the vcore to do so. Luckily, with TBred-B's if you find a favorable stepping, and production week, you'll be able to run the processor safely as much as a few hundred MHz faster then the fastest model, and not have to raise the vcore to do it.

This will have no detrimental effect on the life of the processor, because (as I've said above) in actuality, your running the CPU at it's intended "design" speed. Now there are of course other factors which come into play, prompting the manufacturer to bin certain cores for 1700's, and others for 2800's, and these are important. Luckily for us, in the case of the TBred-B (just as in Intel's Northwood-D) AMD's excellent manufacture consistancy with certain batches allows for the slowest model to run at the fastest speeds. So long as the stepping and batch date is close to those specs I listed above. I'd grab the less expensive TBred-B 1700 ($60) look for JIUHB AXDA1700DUT3C or DLT3C, and week 02 through 08. For much less money, you'll enjoy the entire model line spectrum of clock speeds in one processor, safely. Make sure your cooling is above average, that will have agreater effecvt on the life of the processor then any other, with the exception of spilling coffee into your case. Here's a link to eXcaliberpc directly to the JIUHB 1700DUT3C and it's a week 0307. The one I have does 2.5GHz with a little juice pumped into it, and it'll do 2.3GHz at default vcore, all day long. Yes you can find them for less money, but what your paying for is getting the stepping and production date which overclocks well. You can buy them for $43 at Newegg, but your not gauranteed anything, especially not the stepping, production week, and voltage.
 
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