Need Advince on ATI card for around $200

assemblage · 09-16-03, 07:02 PM

I get so confused with the different ATI cards. I am upgrading my whole system. I am going with a Gigabyte Nforce2 400 Ultra GA-7N400-L, with the AMD XP 2500+ Barton, and 1gb of 333mhz rated ram I got from Circuit City a few weeks ago for $60 after mail in rebate. I'm working towards a water cooled system, buying parts at a time so I can quiten my 'puter and try out some overclocking.

I like playing 3D games, but don't have a time to play a lot of them. I play Star Wars Galaxies right now.

I am looking at video cards and would like to go with the ATI ones. Im upgrading from a Chaintech Geforce4 TI4200. Great card I picked up for $120 last year. I like that price range. I'm selling that though, so won't be able to keep that. From what I read in all the reviews and shootouts, I'll need to get an ATI 9500 Pro or better.

That's where I get confused. I read about the hobbling of the 9600 compared to the 9500. I know the difference between Pro and non Pro, which is, correct me if I'm wrong, the speed of the ram and the bus. So I wonder should I pay (newegg.com prices) $200 for the 9500pro or should I get a 9600 Pro? Well heck then I find there are two kinds of 9600 Pro's. One has slower memory. I can get a slower memory one for $150 and one with the faster memory for $180. Which one is the better bang for the buck?

Which card is a good one to get, bang for the buck?
The 9500 pro for $200?
The 9600 pro with slower memory for $150?
The 9600 pro with faster memory for $180?

billstuck · 09-16-03, 07:16 PM

Well many agree the 9500 pro will be faster then the 9600 pro, but for the price difference it may not be worth it.

A few things..

Best buy currently has the BBA 9600 Pro for $170 after rebate so you can get it cheaper then $180.

I'm not sure what you mean by slower and faster memory. Most all of the newer 9600pro card come with samsung 3.3ns memory. Some older ones came with Samsung 2.8ns memory. If you can get one of those do it and also tell me where it is :-)

Some newer ones also come with 2.8ns memory, but it is Infeneon <-spelling which is a crappy brand and actually in some cases the people with the slower Samsung memory are getting higher overclocks then the faster and lower quality infeneon memory.

I opted for the 9600 pro and have Samsung 3.3ns memory. I am able to get up to 343 or so mhz memory clock from the stock 300 which is pretty decent.

I kind of wanted the 9500pro, but don't think its worth it since the 9600 also has a newer core and more DX9 instructions..i.e. better pixel shaders etc..

I don't know as much about that DX9 improvement so maybe someone else can chime in.

Hope that helps

shiyan · 09-16-03, 07:17 PM

well, it seems someone found a 9700Pro for $180 which is quite a bit faster than all those cards, so it might be a good idea to keep an eye on this thread:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...hreadid=232094

also, if you are willing to take the risk for a potential huge gain, some 9500 NON PRO cards with the same PCB as the 9700 but 9500 price, can be softmodded to work as a 9700.

But I would not, and get the $180 9700 Pro. I still can't believe that price.

billstuck · 09-16-03, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shiyan
well, it seems someone found a 9700Pro for $180 which is quite a bit faster than all those cards, so it might be a good idea to keep an eye on this thread:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...hreadid=232094

yea that too, but these post allways turn out to be "from a friend' or the guy thinks he can get it on ebay for that price. It's usuallly allways to good to be true.

shiyan · 09-16-03, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billstuck

yea that too, but these post allways turn out to be "from a friend' or the guy thinks he can get it on ebay for that price. It's usuallly allways to good to be true.

You're probably right about that.

edit:

just saw this

Quote:

Originally posted by sup3rcarrx8
Lol cool thanks guys. My friend's getting it from another friend of his. So sorry guys, its not a store or anything. (remember guys, its OEM too so i'm not sure if that takes out most of the money lol)

assemblage · 09-16-03, 07:25 PM

oops

assemblage · 09-16-03, 07:29 PM

ROFL, I was just reading that thread and I just posted and thought I accidently posted to that thread. Anyways what I posted was...

Lol, I'm looking back over the stuff now. I looked at them last month and thought I read something like, one 9600 pro card had 466 DDR memory and the cheaper ones had 400mhz ddr. I don't see that now and I'm swear I'm not high, just confused.

assemblage · 09-16-03, 07:44 PM

I see what you are saying

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by slower and faster memory. Most all of the newer 9600pro card come with samsung 3.3ns memory. Some older ones came with Samsung 2.8ns memory. If you can get one of those do it and also tell me where it is :-)

Last month there was a difference. I guess. Looking at the Powercolor site they have different cards listed.
1) PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro EZ version(R96-C3G)(R96-c3GN)
This has a core speed of 400mhz and a memory speed of "202x2"
2)PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro (R96A-C3N)
This has a core speed of 400 and a memory speed of "300x2"
3)PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro Ultra 128MB DDR BRAVO Edition (R96A-C3G)
This has a core speed of 400mhz and a memory speed of "337x2" I guess this is just a guaranteed overclocked #2 with Tomb Raider added for the sex appeal.

The newegg.com site much since most of the listings doesn't have the ram speed.

billstuck · 09-17-03, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by assemblage
I see what you are saying

Last month there was a difference. I guess. Looking at the Powercolor site they have different cards listed.
1) PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro EZ version(R96-C3G)(R96-c3GN)
This has a core speed of 400mhz and a memory speed of "202x2"
2)PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro (R96A-C3N)
This has a core speed of 400 and a memory speed of "300x2"
3)PowerColor Radeon9600 Pro Ultra 128MB DDR BRAVO Edition (R96A-C3G)
This has a core speed of 400mhz and a memory speed of "337x2" I guess this is just a guaranteed overclocked #2 with Tomb Raider added for the sex appeal.

The newegg.com site much since most of the listings doesn't have the ram speed.

The first one is a non-pro and your right the 3rd one is just a guarenteed overclock of the 2nd one.

Mustanley · 09-17-03, 11:02 AM

Another option is the Radeon 9800SE for approximately $190. Many people have successfully converted these to regular 8 pipeline 9800 cards. Or, you could save a little more and jump up to the 9800nonpro for about $235. The 9800 will be good for two years IMO.

Damian · 09-17-03, 11:12 AM

Most 9800se cards that go for $190, though, are the 128-bit memory ones (9500pro PCB) that not only aren't moddable, but also perform very, very poorly. Most of the 256-bit memory (9700 PCB) 9800ses go for $230 or so, which is about the price of a 9700np. Complete ripoff. The 9800se is just a cheap ploy by ATI to catch unsuspecting customers. What makes it worse is that some vendors are beginning to drop the SE and just call the card "Radeon 9800". Ugh.

I think that if you're nearing the $200 range you might as well get a 9700np for ~$230 or a 9800np for ~$250 (maybe a bit less). The performance of those blows away all 9500s and 9600s.

Pinnacle2k4 · 09-17-03, 01:48 PM

I agree, go with a 9800np. You can get some for $235 on pricewatch. I would stay away from 9800 SE as you don't have a 100% chance of getting it.

I don't know why ATI brought the SE card out, i am pretty sure they caught a lot of people with this. Dunno if these 9800SE cards are 9800 with damaged pipelines or what, but i would stay away from them.

Speed_Mechanic2 · 09-17-03, 02:16 PM

They have advertised 256-bit 9800 SE's for $190. Banana PC and All Star Shop both say they have the 256-bit memory interface w/ the 9700 PCB I believe.

The 9800 SE is basically the equivilent to the 9500 Pro, but for $15 less then the 9500 Pro is going for these days.

q149 · 09-17-03, 02:27 PM

Actually it's to the 9800 Pro what the 9500 non pro is to the 9700 Pro.. so it's the equivilent of a 9500np.. and there is 128 and 256 bit versions just like the 9500np. The only 256 bit ones i have seen cost as much as a 9800np though.. those are both 128 bit.

Speed_Mechanic2 · 09-17-03, 03:28 PM

Quote:

256-bit memory interface removes hardware performance bottleneck and vides end users with faster 3D graphics

They are both advertising 256-bit memory interfaces.

q149 · 09-17-03, 03:49 PM

The one at allstarshop dosen't say that. They both show the 128 bit version in the pic.. I wouldn't really count on it being 256 bit, i have never even heard of a sapphire one that was. Either way it's still only 4 pipes like a 9500np

Speed_Mechanic2 · 09-17-03, 04:14 PM

They both show the new Black PCB board from Sapphire. Modifications of it are used on the 9700 Pro Ultimate, 9800 Pro Ultimate. The Allstarshop and bananapc are the same card.

Mord-Sith · 09-17-03, 04:15 PM

Im also in the same market. Im new to ATI but am willing to give it a shot. There are just soo many versions of what seems to be the same card.

Gigabyte seems to be coming out with a nice 9600pro

http://tw.giga-byte.com/VGA/Products...-R96P256DH.htm

I dont know how much or when its coming but I think Im going to wait and find out. What do you guys think

Pinnacle2k4 · 09-17-03, 04:35 PM

if its $190 for 128bits with 4 pipelines, you might as well get a 9600 for a lower price.

I think the ones popping up are mostly 256bits though.

billstuck · 09-17-03, 04:36 PM

why would you wait for that one? you can a 9600pro now. I think there are some 256MB versions around too.

09-16-03, 07:02 PM	Thread Starter #1
assemblage Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Augusta, GA	Need Advince on ATI card for around $200 I get so confused with the different ATI cards. I am upgrading my whole system. I am going with a Gigabyte Nforce2 400 Ultra GA-7N400-L, with the AMD XP 2500+ Barton, and 1gb of 333mhz rated ram I got from Circuit City a few weeks ago for $60 after mail in rebate. I'm working towards a water cooled system, buying parts at a time so I can quiten my 'puter and try out some overclocking. I like playing 3D games, but don't have a time to play a lot of them. I play Star Wars Galaxies right now. I am looking at video cards and would like to go with the ATI ones. Im upgrading from a Chaintech Geforce4 TI4200. Great card I picked up for $120 last year. I like that price range. I'm selling that though, so won't be able to keep that. From what I read in all the reviews and shootouts, I'll need to get an ATI 9500 Pro or better. That's where I get confused. I read about the hobbling of the 9600 compared to the 9500. I know the difference between Pro and non Pro, which is, correct me if I'm wrong, the speed of the ram and the bus. So I wonder should I pay (newegg.com prices) $200 for the 9500pro or should I get a 9600 Pro? Well heck then I find there are two kinds of 9600 Pro's. One has slower memory. I can get a slower memory one for $150 and one with the faster memory for $180. Which one is the better bang for the buck? Which card is a good one to get, bang for the buck? The 9500 pro for $200? The 9600 pro with slower memory for $150? The 9600 pro with faster memory for $180?
	QUOTE Thanks

09-16-03, 07:17 PM	#3
shiyan Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: behind the wheel	well, it seems someone found a 9700Pro for $180 which is quite a bit faster than all those cards, so it might be a good idea to keep an eye on this thread: http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showth...hreadid=232094 also, if you are willing to take the risk for a potential huge gain, some 9500 NON PRO cards with the same PCB as the 9700 but 9500 price, can be softmodded to work as a 9700. But I would not, and get the $180 9700 Pro. I still can't believe that price.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-16-03, 07:25 PM	Thread Starter #6
assemblage Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Augusta, GA	oops
	QUOTE Thanks

09-16-03, 07:29 PM	Thread Starter #7
assemblage Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Augusta, GA	ROFL, I was just reading that thread and I just posted and thought I accidently posted to that thread. Anyways what I posted was... Lol, I'm looking back over the stuff now. I looked at them last month and thought I read something like, one 9600 pro card had 466 DDR memory and the cheaper ones had 400mhz ddr. I don't see that now and I'm swear I'm not high, just confused.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 11:02 AM	#10
Mustanley Join Date: May 2003 Location: Asheville, NC (Blue Ridge Mtns)	Another option is the Radeon 9800SE for approximately $190. Many people have successfully converted these to regular 8 pipeline 9800 cards. Or, you could save a little more and jump up to the 9800nonpro for about $235. The 9800 will be good for two years IMO. __________________ Q9550 on P5Q-Deluxe(460x8.5=3910MHz), 4x2GB GSkill 1066, 750GB WD Black HD, GTX285(702,1512,2592), Blu-ray, Silverstone OP650, Samsung 1080P 50" Plasma + Dell 2408WFP, MX1000 laser mouse, Saitek backlit keyboard, P182, Xigmatek S1283 Black Knight
	QUOTE Thanks

Need Advince on ATI card for around $200

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09-16-03, 07:16 PM	#2
billstuck Member Join Date: Jul 2003	Well many agree the 9500 pro will be faster then the 9600 pro, but for the price difference it may not be worth it. A few things.. Best buy currently has the BBA 9600 Pro for $170 after rebate so you can get it cheaper then $180. I'm not sure what you mean by slower and faster memory. Most all of the newer 9600pro card come with samsung 3.3ns memory. Some older ones came with Samsung 2.8ns memory. If you can get one of those do it and also tell me where it is :-) Some newer ones also come with 2.8ns memory, but it is Infeneon <-spelling which is a crappy brand and actually in some cases the people with the slower Samsung memory are getting higher overclocks then the faster and lower quality infeneon memory. I opted for the 9600 pro and have Samsung 3.3ns memory. I am able to get up to 343 or so mhz memory clock from the stock 300 which is pretty decent. I kind of wanted the 9500pro, but don't think its worth it since the 9600 also has a newer core and more DX9 instructions..i.e. better pixel shaders etc.. I don't know as much about that DX9 improvement so maybe someone else can chime in. Hope that helps
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 11:12 AM	#11
Damian Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Acton, MA	Most 9800se cards that go for $190, though, are the 128-bit memory ones (9500pro PCB) that not only aren't moddable, but also perform very, very poorly. Most of the 256-bit memory (9700 PCB) 9800ses go for $230 or so, which is about the price of a 9700np. Complete ripoff. The 9800se is just a cheap ploy by ATI to catch unsuspecting customers. What makes it worse is that some vendors are beginning to drop the SE and just call the card "Radeon 9800". Ugh. I think that if you're nearing the $200 range you might as well get a 9700np for ~$230 or a 9800np for ~$250 (maybe a bit less). The performance of those blows away all 9500s and 9600s.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 01:48 PM	#12
Pinnacle2k4 Member Join Date: Sep 2003	I agree, go with a 9800np. You can get some for $235 on pricewatch. I would stay away from 9800 SE as you don't have a 100% chance of getting it. I don't know why ATI brought the SE card out, i am pretty sure they caught a lot of people with this. Dunno if these 9800SE cards are 9800 with damaged pipelines or what, but i would stay away from them.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 02:16 PM	#13
Speed_Mechanic2 Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ft. Hood, TX	They have advertised 256-bit 9800 SE's for $190. Banana PC and All Star Shop both say they have the 256-bit memory interface w/ the 9700 PCB I believe. The 9800 SE is basically the equivilent to the 9500 Pro, but for $15 less then the 9500 Pro is going for these days.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 02:27 PM	#14
q149 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Japan	Actually it's to the 9800 Pro what the 9500 non pro is to the 9700 Pro.. so it's the equivilent of a 9500np.. and there is 128 and 256 bit versions just like the 9500np. The only 256 bit ones i have seen cost as much as a 9800np though.. those are both 128 bit.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 03:49 PM	#16
q149 Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Japan	The one at allstarshop dosen't say that. They both show the 128 bit version in the pic.. I wouldn't really count on it being 256 bit, i have never even heard of a sapphire one that was. Either way it's still only 4 pipes like a 9500np
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 04:14 PM	#17
Speed_Mechanic2 Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ft. Hood, TX	They both show the new Black PCB board from Sapphire. Modifications of it are used on the 9700 Pro Ultimate, 9800 Pro Ultimate. The Allstarshop and bananapc are the same card.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 04:15 PM	#18
Mord-Sith Member Join Date: Apr 2001	Im also in the same market. Im new to ATI but am willing to give it a shot. There are just soo many versions of what seems to be the same card. Gigabyte seems to be coming out with a nice 9600pro http://tw.giga-byte.com/VGA/Products...-R96P256DH.htm I dont know how much or when its coming but I think Im going to wait and find out. What do you guys think
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 04:35 PM	#19
Pinnacle2k4 Member Join Date: Sep 2003	if its $190 for 128bits with 4 pipelines, you might as well get a 9600 for a lower price. I think the ones popping up are mostly 256bits though.
	QUOTE Thanks

09-17-03, 04:36 PM	#20
billstuck Member Join Date: Jul 2003	why would you wait for that one? you can a 9600pro now. I think there are some 256MB versions around too.
	QUOTE Thanks

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