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Old 09-17-03, 12:30 PM Thread Starter   #1
jamespetts
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UDMA issue


For some reason, my HDDs don't seem to be running in their highest UDMA mode.

I've just built a new computer with Windows XP and an Asus P4C800E, with two hard drives: a new Raptor on the non-RAID SATA controller (the RAID controller is disabled), and an old Quantum Fireball LM 10Gb drive on the PATA controller. There is also a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive on the other PATA controller.

In the BIOS, the Raptor reports a maximum UDMA rating of "6" (isn't that UDMA133?), but in Device manager, and on the system report screen before the OS boots, it reports UDMA 5 (UDMA100).

The Quantum, in the BIOS, reports a maximum UDMA of 4 (UDMA66, yes?), but in Device Manager, it reports using UDMA2 (UDMA33). The CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive correctly reports UDMA2. In order to get the computer to boot from my SATA raptor, I have had to disable the Quantum in the BIOS: Windows still recognises it, though. When I don't disable the Quantum in the BIOS, it reports UDMA4 on the BIOS report screen (I think), but tries to boot from it (it doesn't have a boot sector).

I've looked at Quantum's tool which limits the drive to UDMA33 (I may have used this before), and used it to reset the drive to UDMA66, but with no luck.

I'm concerned, because Sandra reported the Quantum as being slower than a 5,400RPM drive: it's a 7,200RPM drive.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how this problem might be resolved?
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Old 09-17-03, 12:32 PM   #2
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well for one thing if two drives of different UDMA speeds on the cable they will both run at the slower speed, which is true for most things in a comp (like RAM etc). there was a thread recently about problems booting to SATA when an IDE drive was installed, search back for it as I dont remmember the solution. And see if that helps

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Old 09-17-03, 01:15 PM   #3
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Move the PATA devices to the PATA ports. You can run the CD-RW with the Quantum hard drive on the same channel if you like. Today’s modern chipsets will run each device at its rated speed.
You’d think SATA controllers would do the same as today’s PATA controllers, but from what you’re experiencing, your SATA controller doesn’t like slower devices connected to it.
Leave the Raptor on the controller by itself……….better yet, get another Raptor, enable the RAID, and stripe them both in RAID 0.
Look around this forum. You think that Raptor is fast by itself, check out the ATTO scores these folks have been able to achieve with striped Raptors.
Just something to think about.
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Old 09-17-03, 01:22 PM   #4
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no point in RAID speeds are still more or less the same.. just buy a faster drive if you want speed. RAID won't fix his problems.. might make it worse

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Old 09-17-03, 01:31 PM Thread Starter   #5
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I can't afford another Raptor, and I don't want to spend Ł112 to double the chance that a hard drive failure will destroy my data :-)

But, Qucick, I already have it setup like that: only the Raptor is using the SATA connector: the CD-RW/DVD is on one PATA connector, and the Quantum HDD is on another. There's no point in having them both on the same connector, as this will limit my bandwidth (not by reducing it to the slower of the two, but by causing the devices to share the same bandwidth). In any case, I intend to install another CD-ROM drive so that I can listen to music whilst, for example, writing CDs.

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Old 09-17-03, 03:05 PM   #6
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In response to pik4chu:
I’m well aware of your opinions on striped drives and I invite you to look around also.
Run some ATTO scores on your drive(s) and compare.
“Buy a faster drive”? He has the fastest available for the price. Do you suggest he go SCSI?
I work with SCSI servers on a daily basis. I know how these systems respond, perform, and cost, including the price of each 10k rpm (in some cases 15k rpm) hard drive.
You can get the same responsiveness and performance from SATA/PATA striped arrays, at a significantly lower cost.
The same has been said buy several major publications and web sites concerning the advantages of RAID 0. Not to mention thousands of positive consumer experiences with systems configured with striped drives. Just about all the high end consumer computer manufacturers (i.e. Aleinware, Voodoo, ect.) offer some sort of striped ATA drives in their flagship systems.
Could all these people be wrong about their views concerning the speed advantage of RAID 0?
I, for one, will never go back to single drives. I have had the opportunity to configure my system with borrowed single and striped SCSI drives. I have also configured it with single and striped ATA drives.
Although the striped SCSI drives were incredible, I could not justify the price (not even the purchase of a single SCSI drive).
My present striped ATA drives match the responsiveness and performance of the single SCSI drive I ran briefly in my system. I prefer to forget ever running a single ATA drive.
Also, during the last three years of using striped ATA drives, I have never experienced any kind of data loss. As I have stated before, the hardware and software RAID controllers available today, do not experience data loss.
It’s a thing of the past.

For jamespetts:
Running striped drives does not double your chances of a hard drive failure.
The chances of that happening are the same as running a single drive.
Whether running striped drives or a single drive, if you have a failure, you’re going to loose the data anyway.
I apologize for misreading your original post. My only other suggestion would be to check at the Asus site to see if it’s a known problem with the SATA controller on your motherboard. Also, while your there, check to see if the latest drivers available at Asus will help cure the SATA/PATA controller problems.
Maybe try an 80 conductor cable for the Quantum. I use them for all my PATA devices.
I also apologize for my limited knowledge of SATA. I am actually waiting until they break the ATA300 barrier before I purchase any SATA drives.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
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Old 09-17-03, 03:11 PM   #7
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Yes, you should definately be using an 80 conductor cables if you are not already.

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Old 09-17-03, 03:12 PM Thread Starter   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quick69GTO
...For jamespetts:
Running striped drives does not double your chances of a hard drive failure.
The chances of that happening are the same as running a single drive.
Whether running striped drives or a single drive, if you have a failure, you’re going to lose the data anyway.


I didn't say that it doubled the chance of a hard drive failure :-) I said that it doubled the chance that a hard drive failure would destroy all of the data on my volume.

With one hard drive, there is a chance that it will fail and cause data loss. For convenience, I'll describe the chance as 1.

With two hard drives, the chance of each one of those hard drives failing over any given period of time is the same as for the single drive, but for data on both drives to be lost, only one of the two drives has to fail. The chance, therefore, of hard drive induced data loss is 1x2, or 2. The chance of any given hard drive failing remains the same, but the chance that a failure will cause data loss on the volume is doubled.

Quote:
I apologize for misreading your original post. My only other suggestion would be to check at the Asus site to see if it’s a known problem with the SATA controller on your motherboard. Also, while your there, check to see if the latest drivers available at Asus will help cure the SATA/PATA controller problems.
Maybe try an 80 conductor cable for the Quantum. I use them for all my PATA devices.
I also apologize for my limited knowledge of SATA. I am actually waiting until they break the ATA300 barrier before I purchase any SATA drives.
Sorry I couldn’t be more help.
It's not really an SATA problem, though. The real problem is with the PATA drive, which refuses to run at faster than UDMA33 in Windows. This looks like some sort of BIOS/IDE issue...
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Old 09-17-03, 03:13 PM Thread Starter   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by schismspeak
Yes, you should definately be using an 80 conductor cables if you are not already.
I am using an 80-wire cable for the HDD :-)
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Old 09-17-03, 05:08 PM   #10
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here we go with the RAID arguments and worthless technical data again it seems. and I know exactly what I suggested. the point is he is not wanting it to go faster (the raptor) he just wants them all to work. so all of that was irrelevant. and yes, using RAID 0 doubles the chance of data loss. well not doubles.. some stupid % but either way it makes it worse.

james: have you made sure you have up to date BIOS for the board? and things like that, might check versions of things, though it doesnt sound old enough to have this problem. but there might be a compat issue with it (though unlikely)

Have you tried connecting just the quantum and raptor and leaving off the CD-rom? to see what speeds it runs at.

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Old 09-17-03, 07:58 PM   #11
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Check the event viewer for CRC errors. Excessive CRC errors will result in XP ramping down UDMA modes to try to prevent further errors. A bit more info here:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/...dma_print.mspx
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Old 09-17-03, 07:59 PM   #12
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One thing you could try is uninstalling your IDE channel. I found this tip when my DVD drive was reading painfully slow.

Go into the Device Manager to your IDE controller. Expand it and select the primary IDE (if that's where your two drives are installed). Right click on it, and choose Uninstall. Windows will tell you that you are removing a component. Click yes, and reboot the system. When it comes back up, it should re-detect your IDE channel, and reset the DMA to the highest your drives support.

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