Videocards - Insanity turned to enlightenment

Upgrades - Insanity turned to enlightenment

Hey all, please before I get started I would like to make sure no one gets offended, if you like spending the money upgrading to the latest and greatest then please do! But I must rant a little...

Ok, for the last few years I have been spending a grip of money on upgrades from CPU's and mobo's to videocards, memory etc... Well last month there was a setback for me at work and money I usually got was postponed for over a month, so I had to sell my beefed up P4 system. Of course this was a big bummer but I made the best of it and paid my bills (my wife and daughter come first).

Now I was thinking of what to do next with a computer, my wife has her old P3 setup for school (she is studying to be a teacher) and I had some spare parts laying around. I thought about a low cost Athlon setup with as many things integrated as possible, but I was still looking at $300-500 for the whole setup. So I looked at those parts of mine and decided to try something different for a change....get an old system to game! Why the hell not right? So out of the garage came the Abit BH6 mobo, Celeron 400Mhz. Out of an old pack bell POS computer came a 50x CD-Rom, 6.2GB seagate HD, Floppy drive, and from a very good friend of mine a geforce 4 Ti 4200 AGP card and 256mb of PC-133 memory. My wife kindly donated 256MB of her crucial PC-133 memory for the cause and I was off to building what I like to call frankenstein!

My system specs are below to glance at any time, hehe. Ok so I needed a case and powersupply, my old school ATX server tower got thrown into the mix and I went out and got myself an Allied 300w PS for $30. After that...I built it. Not knowing what to expect from these system specs these days I went the safe route and installed Windows ME. I loaded up the OS and gave myself a crash course in tweaking that OS again...its been awhile, but that was done...drivers were installed etc...The whole system was up and ready to go. So after installing all of the latest Windows Updates I went about the task of wondering if the damn thing would game?

I tossed in Counter-Strike and Steam and got it all up and running and went off to play....30FPS when everyone was in a huge firefight including smoke grenades from hell...up to 99 frames during normal skirmishes! GOOD GOD this thing works! So I decide to test it further, enter Battlefield 1942. I installed it and turned the video settings to max and guess what, 30+ frames! Completely playable at 30+ and looking damn good. Well I decided to try a few other games out and everything was running very smoothly and it got me to thinking....why the hell would I upgrade so damn often for in the first place if for nothing else as to play with new hardware?

This old school system plays everything I throw at it, albiet not at 300+ FPS but ****, the human eyes can only see up to 60FPS anyway and anything honestly above 30FPS (movie theater frames) is completely smooth and playable! All the money I have spent for what??? Benchmarks?

This got me to thinking, for me anyway....I am going to be logical from now on about my upgrades. I am done spending $100's of dollars to get a few more frames. When my system cannot handle **** anymore then I will upgrade it but this world has become kinda jaded when it comes to the Ghz wars...people, you dont need em for everything!! Photoshop rendering and stuff like that can be done on pretty much any system, time is the only thing you are paying for there, gaming can be done on games well below the minimum sys req...you dont NEED to upgrade all the damn time. For those that do anything they can just to get the latest and greatest videocard, think about it first, benchmark wars are a waste of money and if your system plays the games you buy then save some money, you will thank me later.

I did however already make my first smart upgrade...and it only cost me around $33. Seeing as how my system is running at a 66Mhz FSB and also forcing my memory to run at 66mhz (ouch) I decided to buy a Pentium 3 500Mhz /100/512k chip. My FSB and memory will get a nice boost to 100Mhz, and 4x the level 2 cache is always a good thing...not to mention the SSE being added and the extra 100mhz of CPU power to back it all up. $33 well spent if you ask me..Im just waiting for it to get here

Anyway, the moral of the story is, dont upgrade just cause others do, dont think you HAVE to upgrade cause game companies tell you that it is needed to play thier ****, and dont upgrade just cause you dont want to look like a poor man with a crappy system. Upgrade only cause you want to, if its for the hobby then have at it, if its just cause you live for benchmarks and have the money to burn, go for it! I know I appreciate all the info that comes from people that buy the latest and greatest!! Anyway, just thought I would throw some of my experience and wisdom out there, fold on, game on, surf on, mod on, and OC everything baby!

LONG LIVE THE 440BX!

P.S. Dont take offense to anything please, and remember I love you all

The title should read "Upgrades - Insanity turned to enlightenment", not just Videocards

Hey bro, I always thought that once you got past 500 mhz or so, the only thing that helped is a better video card. You proved me right!

this is the problem with the PC market today, just as Ed pointed out.

less and less people want more speed, which seems quite logical.

I can see more storage being needed, or adding CD-RW's or DVD-RW's and such, but CPU's have got me laughing almost....I mean do we all need a supercomputer in our homes? 90% of people surf, burn, and do email...and the occasional game, so what is all this uneeded power doing for the world? Technology needs to always advance, but people are being led to believe they NEED to upgrade, its insane I tell you!

In fact what we need is better processors in general, like ones that can be cooled passive and not need any kind of fans. Ones with advances Cores that have two logical processors, large Caches, and are very efficient.

My dad still has his pIII 550, the reason he kept it is that it did everything he wants it to do mostly because it has 512 ram a 60GB HDD and a GF2 Graphics Card, It really is an awsome computer and the 440BX is king

Mr. $T$ said:

In fact what we need is better processors in general, like ones that can be cooled passive and not need any kind of fans. Ones with advances Cores that have two logical processors, large Caches, and are very efficient.

My dad still has his pIII 550, the reason he kept it is that it did everything he wants it to do mostly because it has 512 ram a 60GB HDD and a GF2 Graphics Card, It really is an awsome computer and the 440BX is king

Click to expand...

I agree! CPU's dont need more speed, they need more logical computing. More instructions per clock, more efficient cache, and multiple CPU's on one core would be ideal. I personally think the whole PC needs to be redesigned for more memory bandwidth, clock speeds are NOT needed.

I need a harddrive so bad, lol. I kinda wish though I had kept that old P3 800mhz I sold ya T, a slotket and that would be a nice system!

My dad's been telling me that exact thing for as long as I've been spending money on computers. The sad fact is I think some of us are addicted to messing with new to us technology. Oh yea, folding needs clock speeds

not that i dissagree much on this,some small issues i do tho.ill point that out in a bit.
ok time to play devils advocate.
1.first if i dont have a 3ghz fx51 whos gonna fold all those protiens?
2.what about people who like doing this for fun/hobbys/learning.
3.if you die today do you really think a 500mhz cpu you kids inherit will make your kid populer in school? lol jk here
4.what about the thrill of setting benchmark records and the feeling of satisfaction of an incredable job well done doing something noone else has done before.
5.what about seeing your name at the top of the list in 3dmark scores at the oc.com 3dmarkteam page?

i could go on forever and thats easy as i fit that profile.
my 9700np i had that would beat the snot out of some 9800pros was never,ever used in games to its potential.
but i had fun doing it.
learned alot.
and it kept my passion for pc's as a hobby enjoyable.

did i need it?absolutly not!
i had a now $40 gf mx440 oced very nicley and has set records on 3dmark.do you know it played anything i threw at it?
granted it wasnt 4xaa or all eye candy.but very much worked great.

all im saying is dont pass judgement on people for what they own/buy/oc unless you know why they did it.

im building a new system as we speak and i guarentee it it have a 9700pro or 9800pro in it.ill never use all its power but i do use dual monitors and high resolutions.but i want it to play with and learn as ive never had a 9800pro.

the minamum specs a pc needs is these in my books.unless a die hard gamer,ocer, or pc hobbiest.
500mhz cpu
256 mb ram
mx440
17" monitor
10 gb hard drive

that rig will serve 90% of the pc owners out there more than they can use.
most people who are "over powered" are people who arent pc educated.

deathstar13 said:

not that i dissagree much on this,some small issues i do tho.ill point that out in a bit.
ok time to play devils advocate.
1.first if i dont have a 3ghz fx51 whos gonna fold all those protiens?
2.what about people who like doing this for fun/hobbys/learning.
3.if you die today do you really think a 500mhz cpu you kids inherit will make your kid populer in school? lol jk here
4.what about the thrill of setting benchmark records and the feeling of satisfaction of an incredable job well done doing something noone else has done before.
5.what about seeing your name at the top of the list in 3dmark scores at the oc.com 3dmarkteam page?

i could go on forever and thats easy as i fit that profile.
my 9700np i had that would beat the snot out of some 9800pros was never,ever used in games to its potential.
but i had fun doing it.
learned alot.
and it kept my passion for pc's as a hobby enjoyable.

did i need it?absolutly not!
i had a now $40 gf mx440 oced very nicley and has set records on 3dmark.do you know it played anything i threw at it?
granted it wasnt 4xaa or all eye candy.but very much worked great.

all im saying is dont pass judgement on people for what they own/buy/oc unless you know why they did it.

im building a new system as we speak and i guarentee it it have a 9700pro or 9800pro in it.ill never use all its power but i do use dual monitors and high resolutions.but i want it to play with and learn as ive never had a 9800pro.

the minamum specs a pc needs is these in my books.unless a die hard gamer,ocer, or pc hobbiest.
500mhz cpu
256 mb ram
mx440
17" monitor
10 gb hard drive

that rig will serve 90% of the pc owners out there more than they can use.
most people who are "over powered" are people who arent pc educated.

Click to expand...

You seem to have not read my entire post. I did mention your crowd (I was part of it myself)...let me quote myself....

"Hey all, please before I get started I would like to make sure no one gets offended, if you like spending the money upgrading to the latest and greatest then please do!"

and the last paragraph I thought stated my feelings perfectly...

"Anyway, the moral of the story is, dont upgrade just cause others do, dont think you HAVE to upgrade cause game companies tell you that it is needed to play thier ****, and dont upgrade just cause you dont want to look like a poor man with a crappy system. Upgrade only cause you want to, if its for the hobby then have at it, if its just cause you live for benchmarks and have the money to burn, go for it! I know I appreciate all the info that comes from people that buy the latest and greatest!! Anyway, just thought I would throw some of my experience and wisdom out there, fold on, game on, surf on, mod on, and OC everything baby!"

Hope this clears things up. No need for the devil or his advocate

chasingapple said:

I need a harddrive so bad, lol. I kinda wish though I had kept that old P3 800mhz I sold ya T, a slotket and that would be a nice system!

Click to expand...

Na I only bought the motherboard

about better cpus that can be cooled more easily: just get a great overclocking chip like the TBred 1800+, and run it at something like 1v, at a slower speed.

I'm sure if you then used a near silent cooling solution, it would still be quite cool.

wow... that was so moving and true i almost cried... erm... i need something to hit with a hammer to regain my manhood.

Actually I've been upgrading this way for years. I appreciate all the people that do go out on a limb and buy the top shelf products, but I've never found I needed it. I just upgraded from a P3 700 with 300+MB ram with a Riva TNT(yeap just TNT, it was and is replaced with a Radeon 7200, but I'm buying a 9500 soon) with a AMD 1800+ xp with 512 MB ram, and the 9500 I mentioned above... and to be honest. I bet this system will last me a few years.

The key is I dont have a whole lot of expendable cash(getting married next year), so I have to pick and choose how and when to upgrade. That's one thing I use this forum for (Thanks Captain Slug, the system works great), and I am very greatful to all the people who are willing to help here ...hobbist...enthusist...whoever... .

Krieger

chasingapple sorry if you think i was offended.
i wasnt and i did read the whole post also.
i just get side tracked,writing a post and thinking fsb numbers in my and also looking for pin outs on the opterons to unlock them.
i can be scatter brained and get off track easy.

i see you understand were im comeing from on the upgrade side.
i tend to piont it more at others reading the post as i felt my motives are often over looked as sensable or needed.

just wait if you ever reach the side i live in (which sounds you arent far off from) the hobbiest/fun/learning pc fanatic seems to just get a bad rap.
many times ive even refered to them as "worse as drug addicts in the quest of pc's".<~~~~~~~~`my words

before my current PC (3 months ago , and only cpu changed) i had a 350mhz PC, worked fine!, this one also runs perfect...

it is indeed true that a lot of ppl buy PCs cuz they think they need it, cuz they dont know they dont...... only reason im getting a top of the line PC soon, is to finally run certain games maxed out and ofcourse, not having to upgrade for 10 billion years

in 15 years, 2 PCs 3 soon

deathstar13 said:

chasingapple sorry if you think i was offended.
i wasnt and i did read the whole post also.
i just get side tracked,writing a post and thinking fsb numbers in my and also looking for pin outs on the opterons to unlock them.
i can be scatter brained and get off track easy.

i see you understand were im comeing from on the upgrade side.
i tend to piont it more at others reading the post as i felt my motives are often over looked as sensable or needed.

just wait if you ever reach the side i live in (which sounds you arent far off from) the hobbiest/fun/learning pc fanatic seems to just get a bad rap.
many times ive even refered to them as "worse as drug addicts in the quest of pc's".<~~~~~~~~`my words

Click to expand...

I understand, Didnt meant to snap like that. I hope it didnt come off to harsh, hehe. I have been there, one year I spent over $3,000 on PC parts just to play with them and see what kinds of OC's I could get! Of course I sold them all off quickly and made my money back but it gets into your blood and becomes a quick addiction. Then over time you forget exactly what is really required to run all of this stuff, and it aint a supercomputer, hehe. I would love an Athlon XP setup myself, I did the P4 thing and it was fast and fun (OC'ed to 3.2Ghz) but I got bored with it too easily, it was too easy to OC! I would love an Athy 1700+ / Nforce2 / 512MB combo. But money is tight right now and the P3 500 will have to do

GOD I NEED A NEW HARDDRIVE THOUGH! SEAGATE 6.4GB 4,500RPM ATA/33 POS IS DRIVING ME NUTS!!!!!!

hey np man it wasnt harsh at all.
hey here is proof of my sanity and insanity all at the same time.
today i pickup my replacement for my x-wifes borrowed rig im useing at the moment.
this will be a backup/research pc for my main "insane" rig.
laptop-p3 600,256 mb pc100,12gb hdd,dvd, xp pro.
granted about the only upgrades will be are replace cpu with a 850mhz-$60 more ram 256mb-$50
both will pay for themselves in resale value.

now ive still not settleled on a "main" rig config yet.
fx51 or a64 or prescott
refer cooled h20
3500-4000 ddr
dual raptors in raid 0 -looking into solid state drive also
9800pro
dual 19" flat crt's

how i can remain so calm and rational thinking with the research pc is hard to explain.but its kinda like this.
i have a goal and know how to approach it to succeed.
since this wont be cheap and take time over several months of building i will need to show control of spending now to reach my goal later.thus resonable research rig.

ya got a point also about easy ocing.
when i first started the xp palominos had just come out.
mobos barely oced fsb higher,cpu's came locked multi wise.
pc133 sucked,hard drives had molasses in them.

now compare that to a xp/nf2 or p4 rig anyone can oc now.
it is to easy and by doing so we slit our own necks by asking manufactuers give us easy and faster stuff at increadably insane high prices.there was a time ocing was about doing it for as cheap as possable.ocing has really changed alot.

True, before we needed to overclock to get the best out of our hardware without having to spend a ton of money. Now we spend the money and overclock for??? Im sorry, I still could not find anything to Tax my P4 2.4Ghz at stock speed and I was running it at 3.2Ghz, lol. Maybe we continue cause its a hobby and because we want to continue to learn how all this works, who knows. But I am enjoying going back and getting these older CPU's to perform well in todays world

People don't see in FPS.
And people who do ALOT of graphical work generally need 1Ghz or more for high resolution image editing and processing. Not to mention video editing and the like.
I'm currently happy with 1.6Ghz for everything I do so it will be a while until I upgrade. Everyone has their own happy-medium.