Windows on virtual hdd in RAM, possible at all?

donati · 11-20-03, 12:17 PM

Hi group

Is it possible to boot and run windows from a virtual drive that resides in RAM, so that it is possible to run the computer without a physical hdd drive?

Is there allready some software that can create such a virtual drive?

Mvh. Finn Donati

David · 11-20-03, 12:29 PM

You would need 2GB+ of RAM for this, plus the image would need to be loaded into RAM from disk or CDROM to start.

I think maybe it could be done, Linux systems residing entirely in RAM are possible and common, I suppose with enough RAM then a full graphical linux system could be held in RAM.

Not sure about Windows though.

shiyan · 11-20-03, 12:39 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

this does seem to be possible, although it is 98, and not 2000 or XP. It is not without its risks though, have a look here: http://forum.oc-forums.com/showthrea...hreadid=247008

unfortunately that's all I've been able to dig up... haven't found a website for it or something like that.

donati · 11-20-03, 12:40 PM

My motherboard only supports up to 1.5gb RAM, but even that should be enough to run windows.. i remember that my very first PC had a 1.2gig hdd

i need a patch for windows, that will allow it to run without a hdd, a tool that creates i virtual drive, and a driver for same

But it should be possible to do it with windows, dont you think?
(im no good at Linux).

The reason i ask this is that if it is possible, i would like to run my PC without any hdd's and fans = totally silent.
Could get hdd storage space from another PC on LAN.

David · 11-20-03, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by donati
My motherboard only supports up to 1.5gb RAM, but even that should be enough to run windows.. i remember that my very first PC had a 1.2gig hdd

i need a patch for windows, that will allow it to run without a hdd, a tool that creates i virtual drive, and a driver for same

But it should be possible to do it with windows, dont you think?
(im no good at Linux).

The reason i ask this is that if it is possible, i would like to run my PC without any hdd's and fans = totally silent.
Could get hdd storage space from another PC on LAN.

Might be cheaper and easier to just enclose your hard disk(s) in some sort of enclosure?

donati · 11-20-03, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David

Might be cheaper and easier to just enclose your hard disk(s) in some sort of enclosure?

hmm.. you might be right on this.. will have to think it over a bit

JigPu · 11-20-03, 12:55 PM

In order to make windows run off a RAMdrive, the follwing things would need to happen...

1) Bios boots off a drive containing RAMdrive software (must remain memory resident!)
2) Software creates a 1GB virtual partition in RAM (let's call it R:\)
3) Software copies the contents of a second HD containing an image of the RAMdrive on the previous shutdown, to the RAMdrive again.
4) Software simulates a boot condition and reads the bootsector of the R: drive.
5) Windows loads off the R: drive.
6) When something is written to the R: drive, the memory resident RAMdrive software adds it to a write-cache where it will wait for an opportune time to update the real windows instalation on the second HD.
7) On shutdown, the software intercepts Windows' shutdown request and flushes it's write-cache and creates an image of the RAMdrive to save to disk.
8) When the backup process is complete, the software sends the signal to turn off the computer.

If you could get all that to work, you might have a working solution. When installing windows for the first time, you'd need to assign the HD it installs to the letter R: since that will be the path it looks at when it's on the RAMdrive.

However, I haven't heard of any RAMdrive software that initializes on boot and restores a bootable image from another drive. You can get plenty of programs to make a drive within windows, or make a drive within DOS, but none AFAIK that include their own bootloader to make a drive without Windows, DOS, or Linux allready running......

JigPu

donati · 11-20-03, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by shiyan
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

this does seem to be possible, although it is 98, and not 2000 or XP. It is not without its risks though, have a look here: http://forum.oc-forums.com/showthrea...hreadid=247008

unfortunately that's all I've been able to dig up... haven't found a website for it or something like that.

Thanks alot, sounds like that could work

Im off to google about for more on this..

David · 11-20-03, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JigPu
none AFAIK that include their own bootloader to make a drive without Windows, DOS, or Linux allready running......

JigPu

Im a bit rusty with the linux stuff but it should go as follows:

- boot kernel from LAN or HDD, with initrd.
- Initrd loaded into RAM and Linuxrc called.
- Linuxrc creates large (say 1Gb) RAMDrive and loads entire filesystem from a LAN/hard drive.
- Linuxrc calls Init from the RAMDrive and Linux kernel continues to boot, mounting RAMDrive as root partition.

donati · 11-21-03, 12:39 PM

Still looking for the right solution..

Any idea if i can boot windows from a compact flash card using one of these ide adapters?

http://mach5products.com/merchant2/m...tegory_Code=CF

Arkaine23 · 11-21-03, 12:44 PM

Here's one easy way to do it in linux:

Download Knoppix 3.3 or a remastered veriosn of it.
Burn the CD.
Boot the CD with the cheatcode:
knoppix toram
Wait a few minutes while it copies the contents of the CD to rasmdisk. You need at least 768mb to do this.

Knoppix is actually close to 1.75GB of files, but it is compressed in a cloop so it fits on a 700mb CD.

JigPu · 11-21-03, 03:10 PM

Yes, those adapters will turn a CF card into IDE. I've looked at the pinouts on them, and it seems like you could almost make one yourself if you were REALLY good at soldering

The problem with using a CF card is that it's really slow. The fastest ones I've seen are from Lexar and run at the same speed as a 40x CD (a mere 6MB/sec). Also, you may hit the problem of maxing out the number of writes the CF card can handle (I read it's about 1 Million before it dies), so you'll want to take that into consideration as well.

JigPu

11-20-03, 12:17 PM	Thread Starter #1
donati Registered Join Date: Nov 2003	Windows on virtual hdd in RAM, possible at all? Hi group Is it possible to boot and run windows from a virtual drive that resides in RAM, so that it is possible to run the computer without a physical hdd drive? Is there allready some software that can create such a virtual drive? Mvh. Finn Donati
	QUOTE Thanks

11-20-03, 12:29 PM	#2
David Forums Super Moderator Overclockers.com Lead Editor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Americans and making pretty colours in a drybox in St Andrews	You would need 2GB+ of RAM for this, plus the image would need to be loaded into RAM from disk or CDROM to start. I think maybe it could be done, Linux systems residing entirely in RAM are possible and common, I suppose with enough RAM then a full graphical linux system could be held in RAM. Not sure about Windows though. __________________ David J. Nelson MChem(Edin) PhD(Strath) AMRSC [Academia Profile] OC Forums Super Moderator // Overclockers.com Editor The Workhorse: [Lenovo W510] Intel Core i7-720QM / 8 GB DDR3 / nVidia Quadro FX880M / Crucial M4 256 GB SSD / Windows 7 The HTPC/Server: AMD Phenom X4 9650 / 6 GB DDR2 / nVidia 8300 / 5 TB of HDDs / Antec Solo II Case / Windows 7 The Gaming Rig: AMD Llano A6-3650 / 4 GB DDR3 / nVidia GTX260 / 2x 500 GB HDD in RAID0 / Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 Case / Windows 7 The Benchmarking Setup: Various LGA775 chips / Asus Rampage Formula / 2 GB OCZ 1066 MHz DDR2 / nVidia Quadro NVS 285 / 320 GB HDD / Windows 7 My research fellowship is eating all my time, so I may be slow to reply to emails and private messages.
	QUOTE Thanks

11-20-03, 12:39 PM	#3
shiyan Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: behind the wheel	WELCOME TO THE FORUMS! this does seem to be possible, although it is 98, and not 2000 or XP. It is not without its risks though, have a look here: http://forum.oc-forums.com/showthrea...hreadid=247008 unfortunately that's all I've been able to dig up... haven't found a website for it or something like that. Last edited by shiyan; 11-20-03 at 12:47 PM.
	QUOTE Thanks

11-20-03, 12:40 PM	Thread Starter #4
donati Registered Join Date: Nov 2003	My motherboard only supports up to 1.5gb RAM, but even that should be enough to run windows.. i remember that my very first PC had a 1.2gig hdd i need a patch for windows, that will allow it to run without a hdd, a tool that creates i virtual drive, and a driver for same But it should be possible to do it with windows, dont you think? (im no good at Linux). The reason i ask this is that if it is possible, i would like to run my PC without any hdd's and fans = totally silent. Could get hdd storage space from another PC on LAN.
	QUOTE Thanks

11-20-03, 12:55 PM	#7
JigPu Inactive Pokémon Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vancouver, WA	In order to make windows run off a RAMdrive, the follwing things would need to happen... 1) Bios boots off a drive containing RAMdrive software (must remain memory resident!) 2) Software creates a 1GB virtual partition in RAM (let's call it R:\) 3) Software copies the contents of a second HD containing an image of the RAMdrive on the previous shutdown, to the RAMdrive again. 4) Software simulates a boot condition and reads the bootsector of the R: drive. 5) Windows loads off the R: drive. 6) When something is written to the R: drive, the memory resident RAMdrive software adds it to a write-cache where it will wait for an opportune time to update the real windows instalation on the second HD. 7) On shutdown, the software intercepts Windows' shutdown request and flushes it's write-cache and creates an image of the RAMdrive to save to disk. 8) When the backup process is complete, the software sends the signal to turn off the computer. If you could get all that to work, you might have a working solution. When installing windows for the first time, you'd need to assign the HD it installs to the letter R: since that will be the path it looks at when it's on the RAMdrive. However, I haven't heard of any RAMdrive software that initializes on boot and restores a bootable image from another drive. You can get plenty of programs to make a drive within windows, or make a drive within DOS, but none AFAIK that include their own bootloader to make a drive without Windows, DOS, or Linux allready running...... JigPu __________________ .... ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 .... Intel Core i5 2500 ........................ 4 thread ...... 3300 MHz ......... -0.125 V 2x ASUS GTX 560 Ti ............................... 1 GiB ....... 830 MHz ...... 2004 MHz .... G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage ............. 8 GiB ..... 1600 MHz ............ 1.25 V .... OCZ Vertex 3 ................................. 120 GB ............. nilfs2 ..... Arch Linux .... Kingwin LZP-550 .............................. 550 W ........ 94% Eff. ....... 80+ Plat .... Nocuta NH-D14 ................................ 20 dB ..... 0.35 C°/W ................ 7 V "In order to combat power supply concerns, Nvidia has declared that G80 will be the first graphics card in the world to run entirely off of the souls of dead babies. This will make running the G80 much cheaper for the average end user." "GeForce 8 Series." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 7 Aug 2006, 20:59 UTC. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 8 Aug 2006.
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11-21-03, 12:39 PM	Thread Starter #10
donati Registered Join Date: Nov 2003	Still looking for the right solution.. Any idea if i can boot windows from a compact flash card using one of these ide adapters? http://mach5products.com/merchant2/m...tegory_Code=CF
	QUOTE Thanks

11-21-03, 12:44 PM	#11
Arkaine23 Captain Random Senior Evil Genius Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Woodlands, Tx	Here's one easy way to do it in linux: Download Knoppix 3.3 or a remastered veriosn of it. Burn the CD. Boot the CD with the cheatcode: knoppix toram Wait a few minutes while it copies the contents of the CD to rasmdisk. You need at least 768mb to do this. Knoppix is actually close to 1.75GB of files, but it is compressed in a cloop so it fits on a 700mb CD. __________________ Folding.for.team.32.as.OC3d! i5 3570 @ 4.5 \| 8GB \| SSD \| 5-disk Raid 0 \| 660 Ti +154 other/slower clients folding
	QUOTE Thanks

11-21-03, 03:10 PM	#12
JigPu Inactive Pokémon Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vancouver, WA	Yes, those adapters will turn a CF card into IDE. I've looked at the pinouts on them, and it seems like you could almost make one yourself if you were REALLY good at soldering The problem with using a CF card is that it's really slow. The fastest ones I've seen are from Lexar and run at the same speed as a 40x CD (a mere 6MB/sec). Also, you may hit the problem of maxing out the number of writes the CF card can handle (I read it's about 1 Million before it dies), so you'll want to take that into consideration as well. JigPu __________________ .... ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 .... Intel Core i5 2500 ........................ 4 thread ...... 3300 MHz ......... -0.125 V 2x ASUS GTX 560 Ti ............................... 1 GiB ....... 830 MHz ...... 2004 MHz .... G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage ............. 8 GiB ..... 1600 MHz ............ 1.25 V .... OCZ Vertex 3 ................................. 120 GB ............. nilfs2 ..... Arch Linux .... Kingwin LZP-550 .............................. 550 W ........ 94% Eff. ....... 80+ Plat .... Nocuta NH-D14 ................................ 20 dB ..... 0.35 C°/W ................ 7 V "In order to combat power supply concerns, Nvidia has declared that G80 will be the first graphics card in the world to run entirely off of the souls of dead babies. This will make running the G80 much cheaper for the average end user." "GeForce 8 Series." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 7 Aug 2006, 20:59 UTC. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 8 Aug 2006.
	QUOTE Thanks

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