[gustav]

i was considering pc4000 before, but then i found out that P4's love the 5:4 ratio and that ram with tight timings at 5:4 can outperform pc4000 with lax timings. i want a gig so i narrowed it down to OCZ 1024MB (2x 512MB) PC-3500 Platinum Series Dual Channel DDR Memory Kit, Model OCZ4331024ELDCPE-K and Mushkin 1GB PC 3500 Level 2 Dual Pack (2x512MB) CAS2-2-2 Black, Part# 991098. the mushkin is in at newegg for $288, while the OCZ is out of stock at $303. the difference in price is neglatable. i am planning on getting a 2.8 with M0 stepping when they come out. i want to put this ram in with that proc and oc it. i'm thinking i most definatly wont get more than 280 fsb with this proc. i will have a thermalright sp-94 with a tornado or other high cfm fan on it. i have the p4p800 deluxe mobo. even though no one knows what the 2.8 with M0 stepping will do, i think its fair to assume it could very well do 270 fsb (batboy said he thought about over half 2.8's with D1 could make over 250 fsb). so with that in mind, with a 5:4 divider, that would put the ram at ddr432. if by some miracle i could get the proc to do 280 fsb on air, that would put the ram at ddr448, i'm wondering which one of these two choices of ram overclock better (please speak from personal experience with these two ram choices). the problem is, if i dont hit 270 fsb or better, then the ram will be underclocked. and if i went with the mushkin pc3200 with BH-5 chips, and i got a good proc, the ram would be the bottleneck because it couldnt overclock enough...so i kinda want to stick with the pc3500, but i'm stuck on which is better in general and which would overclock better and will they still run ok if they were to be underclocked?

[Grandpa Dan]

I've had that mushkin up to 208 w/ 2-2-2-5. I was 5:4, fsb @ 260 +/- 3(don't recall for sure). no prob. I don't think a miracle is required to do 270-280 on air. That Mushkin is about at their cost. It's a great deal.

[mrgreenjeans]

I'm running the OCZ @ 1:1, 225 with timings set to 2-2-3-6 and haven't finished pushing it yet. It ran stable @ 220 w/ 2-2-2-5. I've been very pleased with the OCZ, however, I purchased mine through SVC Whichever choice you make I'm sure either will do you righteous!

[Speed_Mechanic2]

Muskin Black Level 2 PC3200 shouldn't be any more of a limitation then Mushkin Black Level 2 PC3500. They use the same Winbond BH-5 chips, only the one's in the PC3500 are binned for better performance at low voltage (under 2.8V). Though the price differance between the two is negligible - $276 (2x512MB PC3200) and $278 (2x512MB PC3500).

Corsair XMS3500C2 costs only $268 (2x512MB PC3500) at www.AccuPC.com (a good seller) - slightly more at Newegg. Though Corsair doesn't offer a promise any better then OCZ.

2x256MB of PC3200 BL2 costs only $140.

[sp00L]

Listen to SpeedMechanic. Personally I've found the Mushkin 3500 Level 2 outperfoms my OCZ LTD. I also bought my OCZ from SVC who have yet, after 6 days, responded to my RMA request.

Corsair has always gotten praise from users here and most with the Mushkin, with a few exceptions, seem to do well also. Avoid the OCZ. I'm not saying you won't get great sticks, but the probability is higher with Corsair, Mushkin, or Kingston.

[Grandpa Dan]

Originally posted by sp00L
Listen to SpeedMechanic. Personally I've found the Mushkin 3500 Level 2 outperfoms my OCZ LTD. I also bought my OCZ from SVC who have yet, after 6 days, responded to my RMA request.

Corsair has always gotten praise from users here and most with the Mushkin, with a few exceptions, seem to do well also. Avoid the OCZ. I'm not saying you won't get great sticks, but the probability is higher with Corsair, Mushkin, or Kingston.

Re: The ocz. send an email to bigtoe over at abxzone.

[gustav]

well, my goal i guess would be 270 fsb on a 2.8 M0 stepping cpu. that puts the memory right on ddr432 with a 5:4 divider. the question is, if i go with corsair pc3500C2 (which would be cool cuz i like corsair) will it be able to hit 2-2-2-5 like the ocz and mushkin as they are rated at that at stock? and if i can get a higher fsb that 270, how well will it overclock. thats what i'm looking for in the ram. i doubt i would get more than 280 on a 2.8 M0, which would put the ram at ddr448. which ram would hit this best with tight timings? thats what i was kind of asking. alos, at www.accupc.com, i couldnt find a 1 gig kit of pc3500. my main question is, which memory (out of corsair, mushkind and ocz) will overclock best if i need it with tight timings?

Though Corsair doesn't offer a promise any better then OCZ.

on the BH-5 pricelist, it says OCZ and Mushkin gurantee BH-5 on select dimms.

I'm running the OCZ @ 1:1, 225 with timings set to 2-2-3-6 and haven't finished pushing it yet. It ran stable @ 220 w/ 2-2-2-5. I've been very pleased with the OCZ, however, I purchased mine through SVC Whichever choice you make I'm sure either will do you righteous!

220 meaning ddr440, or 220 fsb? if that ocz could hit ddr440 with 2-2-2-5 timings, that would be awsome! what voltage was that? with that and a 5/4 ratio, that would put the fsb at 275, which would put the cpu at 3850 mhz!

[invisible hand]

I have decided to go with Mushkin level II PC3500. What Intel chip would overclock best when used in combination with an Asus P4Deluxe motherboard a (2.4C? or 2.8C?)...I'm a total newbie so please set me straight.

Thanks

[sp00L]

3.0C or 3.2C But, go with dividers and use the 2.4C. I think the 2.8 puts you in no-man's-land of 230-245.

[gustav]

you will get the best overclock out of a 2.4 (many of them will hit 3.2 if not more, especially if you get one with M0 stepping, those can hit 280+ front side bus). you can get a 2.4 w/ M0 stepping at http://www.azzo.com/af4/details.asp?ProdID=722 for $220 for sure. you can get them at www.zipzoomfly.com for $183 but the dont guarentee you will get one with M0 stepping. a 2.8 should be a good choice. batboy has stated that about half of them should hit 250fsb. if you get a 2.8 and get it to 250 fsb, you would have to overclock that ram a good 16 mhz to get it to run 1:1 cpu:ram ratio, and if u use 5:4 ratio some pc3200 with tight timings would work best. if you get the 2.4 and get it up to 280 fsb, with a 5:4 ratio, you would have to overclock the ram by 14mhz. i'm sure someone else can cover any mistakes i made here and maybe help some more. hope this helps.

[sp00L]

Gustav, you won't find tigher timings than 2-3-2-6 at 217-220 on the current BH-5's. Others have posted and basically the best run of BH-5's occurred in 2002 and is impossible to get. The current BH-5's are leftover stock from earlier in 2003. These have proven to yield 2-3-2-6 up to around 220. They top out around 230 with loose timings of 2-3-3-7 to 3-4-4-8.

Rumor has it that all of Corsair 3500 was only made with BH-5 chips but the performance should be similar to exact as the Mushkin Level 2 3500. I'd say go through newegg. I recommend the Mushkin and NewEgg will at least let you return it within 30 days if you change your mind, unlike SVC (still haven't heard from them). I'd avoid the OCZ 3500. You won't do better than the Mushkin Level 2.

[gustav]

Originally posted by mrgreenjeans
I'm running the OCZ @ 1:1, 225 with timings set to 2-2-3-6 and haven't finished pushing it yet. It ran stable @ 220 w/ 2-2-2-5. I've been very pleased with the OCZ, however, I purchased mine through SVC Whichever choice you make I'm sure either will do you righteous!

he ran 220 on OCZ w/ 2-2-2-5, and with 5:4 ratio, that would put the fsb at 275, which i think a 2.8 with M0 could handle.

[invisible hand]

spool,

What do you mean by "go with dividers" on the 2.4C?

[gustav]

i think he meant that most 2.4's will hit well into 3.0+ ghz range. for that to be possible, you need a high front side bus to multiply against the multiplier (12x). so, if you want 3.2 out of a 2.4, you need 265-270 front side bus. the only ram that can run about that fast is pc4000 or better, which is quite expensive. so, since you have pc3500, you need to use a 5:4 divider to use pc3500 with a front side bus speed of 270. if you can get the processor up to 280 front side bus, you would have to overclock the ram to 448 mhz. to figure out what speed ram you need to work with you bus speed, just take the bus speed and multiply it by 4/5 (1.25). for instance, at stock speeds, the front side bus is 800 mhz, but thats after it is quad pumped. so the basic front side bus is 200mhz. multiply that by 4/5. take the number you get, and multiply that by 2. that means you would need ddr320 to run a 5:4 ratio. now take the 270 front side bus, multiply it by 4/5 andyou get 216, multiply that by two, you get 432, which is just 2 mhz under pc3500 specs. basicly, if you want to overclock a 2.4, you can expect at least a 250 fsb, if you use a 5:4 ratio, you would need pc3200, if you can hit 270 fsb, you would do better with pc3500 with the 5:4 ratio. this may be confusing, but i think i explained it well. maybe somone else can explain it in an easier to understand format.

[invisible hand]

Thanks, your explaination has cleared up a lot of confusion on my part.

What is the best way to spot a 2.4C with SL673 MO steppings? Would it be listed on the box? Would a retailer know if they had it? or its it more of a crap shoot getting one?

[mrgreenjeans]

he ran 220 on OCZ w/ 2-2-2-5, and with 5:4 ratio, that would put the fsb at 275, which i think a 2.8 with M0 could handle.

Actually I ran 220 @ 1:1 with voltage set at 2.75. I'm running it at 225 now w/ voltage at 2.85. I apologize because my sig is deceiving in that it was set on Kingston pc3200 set at 5:4. I have upgraded to the OCZ in attempt to reach that timing on a 1:1 and have slowly been inching my upward the past week. I'm getting closer!

[gustav]

mrgreenjeans: so your OCZ runs at 220 1:1 @ 2.75vdimm with 2-2-2-5 timings? and now at 225 with 2.85vdimm and same timings with 1:1 ratio? if so, do you think that would be possible with 5:4 ratio?

invisible hand: i'm not sure on this, but if u go to a retail store and ask nicely if they would give you a 2.4 SL6Z3 they might help you get one - that is if they have them. you might ask to look at a few too to see if you can find one. i'm not exactly sure where it is on the box. perhaps you should go to the cpu section, then the intel section and ask about this. i guarentee you that you wont find a 2.4 SL6Z3 for cheaper in a retail store. you might if you went to computer show. your best bet is to order online. you can take a risk and order it from www.zipzoomfly.com (make sure when you get it that its the one with 800 fsb and not 533 or 400 fsb) but they wont guarentee you will get a SL6Z3. you may get one with D1 stepping, so from them, yes its a crap shoot. i havent heard of http://www.azzo.com/af4/default.asp before, but they look legit. if you go to CPUs>Intel>P4 - 800MHz FSB>Intel P4 2.4C (SL6Z3) 512k w/HT (800MHz Bus) S-478 Northwood Retail $219.99 there they guarentee you a SL6Z3, it doesnt say they guarentee it, but they better send you one as its under the product description. it is about $35 more than ZZF, but if you have to rma a processor or 2 to get a M0 stepping 2.4, you will end up losing $ over AZZO in the end.

[cheba63]

My mushkin pc3500 LEVEL II does 242 1:1 at 3.1v 2-2-2-5.

[Grandpa Dan]

First, there are no guarantees in overclocking. With that, I've played with/help build several 800 fsb p4 systems(4 w/2.4c's). The worst one was a Phillippean(2.4c). The best it would do was 257 fsb. That was in my current system. I ordered another online(I had a buyer for the 1st). Yes It was a roll of the dice but now I can hit 303fsb(it's a Malay so it's not an mo). But my point is all the p4's I've seen are overclocking monsters by any standard.

[gustav]

yeah, i forgot to mention, there are no guarentees. you may only get 225fsb, you may get 300. you never know. but i think its fair to say a fair many of the 2.4's will overclock good and some of the 2.8 will get u some good overclocking too.