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Old 12-08-03, 10:27 AM Thread Starter   #1
barton2500
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Intel VS AMD in the classroom


For running 24x7 computer classrooms, which would be the better choice, AMD or Intel?

Consider the following issues:
* durability/likelyhood of hardware failure
* ease of repair
* stability
* performance

AMD Athlons tend to run hotter than Intel P4s, both with stock heatsink & fan. Is the Athlon more likely to die before a P4 does? Also bear in mind that AMD's 3 year warranty on retail processor voids when using a heatsink/fan that comes with it.

Last edited by barton2500; 12-08-03 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 12-08-03, 06:24 PM   #2
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Don't forget that intel often gives huge discounts to companies buying bulk, both on boards and chips. They also provide tech support. And you know for sure that the company will be there three years down the road.
The same principles apply to software. Windows beats linux, because it's compatible with every other computer, and most of IT understands it. MS office beats Open Office for the same reasons.

In the end, it's often advantageous to go with the usual option, even if it costs more and performs more slowly.

P.S. Intel donates a lot of computers to schools. AMD doesn't.
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Old 12-08-03, 06:49 PM   #3
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Even tho I despise Intel and Love AMD, I would say for a workplace enviornment, go Intel. Why you ask? Main reason being that you can shove a p4 in a cabinet with no airflow and let it run 24/7 and not have to worry bout heat issues. With an Athlon Xp and a stock cooler, a cabinet with no air, just wont do. Sure it will run, but not at its full capabilities. Just my opinion on this issue.

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Old 12-08-03, 06:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bon3thugz43v3r
Even tho I despise Intel and Love AMD, I would say for a workplace enviornment, go Intel. Why you ask? Main reason being that you can shove a p4 in a cabinet with no airflow and let it run 24/7 and not have to worry bout heat issues. With an Athlon Xp and a stock cooler, a cabinet with no air, just wont do. Sure it will run, but not at its full capabilities. Just my opinion on this issue.
It will cook itself to death unless its a amd64. My choice goes to p4..stable..nice..cooler
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Old 12-08-03, 07:00 PM   #5
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I agree with caffinehog. You are more likely to get a discount with Intel. But, AMD could still be cheaper.

Quote:
* durability/likelyhood of hardware failure
Id say that usually CPU's dont just die, even when overclocked, but if you arent overclocking it, it probably wont die. AMD is just as likely as Intel to have a failure. The only thing I see that could cause trouble is that AMD dosent have a heatspreader so if you have no clue what you are doing when putting the heatsink-fan on, you may crack/crush/chip the core. But that dosent happen too often.

Quote:
* ease of repair
Same as I said above, if something on lets say the mobo dies and you have to swap out the CPU to put in the new motherboard there is that risk of damaging the core. But, I have taken my heatsink off many times and have never once ever chipped a core. As for repairing the system, I cant see how it would differ between AMD and an Intel based system.

Quote:
* stability
* performance
Well as for stability, I would say they are the same. At stock speeds every CPU should be rock solid stable. As for performance, definatly AMD unless you are going to get a 3.2Ghz PIVEE. Amd uses I think an 11 stage pipeline possibly a 12. Intel uses a 20 stage pipeline. The difference between having a short pipeline and a long pipeline is that from what I read in a back issue of Computer Power User, is that all CPU's "miscompute" and when they do that have to reprocess the thread, it takes more time when it has to send it though a longer pipeline all over again. Also, a shorter pipeline will tend to not "miscompute" as much. I have no idea about the "miscomputing" but, what I do know is that a shorter pipeline is more efficent and allows more data to be proscessed per cycle.

Quote:
AMD Athlons tend to run hotter than Intel P4s, both with stock heatsink & fan. Is the Athlon more likely to die before a P4 does? Also bear in mind that AMD's 3 year warranty on retail processor voids when using a heatsink/fan that comes with it.
AMD's now actually have a lower heat output than pentium 4's oops i have to go now, when i get back i can prove this.

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Old 12-08-03, 07:03 PM   #6
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AMD'S now have actually heat output lower?????
When did this happen?? Maybe in 2010 but now rite now.
My p4 watercooled runs at 30 celcius maxload, but my friend barton 2500+(stock) runs at 40 celcius maxload? Could demonic possessions posseing his cpu be causing it to overheat?
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Old 12-08-03, 07:14 PM   #7
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actually I think hes right, it has to do with the die size and watt output. The p4 has a larger die, thus more surface area to dissipate heat. Runs cooler, yet produces more heat in terms of watts.

edit: my school uses Pentium dells. They get a huge discount both from dell and pentium. I don't think orginizations will switch to AMD anytime soon. This question is like asking why they don't switch to linux, its cheap and works just as good as windows. because windows is their security blanket, everyone else is using it. etc. . .

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Old 12-08-03, 08:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by unix and linux
AMD'S now have actually heat output lower?????
When did this happen?? Maybe in 2010 but now rite now.
My p4 watercooled runs at 30 celcius maxload, but my friend barton 2500+(stock) runs at 40 celcius maxload? Could demonic possessions posseing his cpu be causing it to overheat?
You said for yourself that your p4 was watercooled. Did your freinds 2500 have the same cooling setup?

Also, another reason to go p4, is becuase the AMD stock heatsink really is not very good at all. With the stock heatsink, it is possible that it COULD overheat. But, if you have a couple case fans and get some really good airflow going in the case I doubt you will have any trouble. Also, I took my AMD 1700 and ran it at stock speeds, and it put out so little heat that I could turn my fan on the heatsink all the way down to 1200 RPM, and with that little airflow and that crappy of a heatsink (volcano9) , I was still able to run at 37°C load (while running the folding@home program with SSE enabled).

Here are some pictures of the thermal wattage calculator. They are a bit big, but if i myself could upload them on a super crappy connection you probably can on your dsl connections



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Old 12-08-03, 08:32 PM   #9
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Why do you ask?

The University of Waterloo I am pretty sure has a deal with Intel, as they do with Microsoft.
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Old 12-08-03, 08:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by @md0Cer

Also, another reason to go p4, is becuase the AMD stock heatsink really is not very good at all. With the stock heatsink, it is possible that it COULD overheat
Its not a Swiftech or TR but I they are fine heatsinks. I used my to get a +200MHz OC, with the stock cooler, and that wasn't pushing it, or modding it.
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Old 12-08-03, 08:42 PM   #11
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really? with the same fan and all? Ive heard a ton about how the stock coolers suck, but I guess I was wrong. Maybe they were just comparing it to like an sk7 or something. Well if it can handle a 200 Mhz O/C and not overheat with a 2500 barton like in sig im assuming, then I think it would do fine in the workplace. Although if it's alot of computers you could get a discount with Intel, but it still could be more expensive than getting an equivelent AMD. One more thing, how much airflow are these computers going to have? How much did yours have 9mmcensor?

Another thing,
Quote:
Also bear in mind that AMD's 3 year warranty on retail processor voids when using a heatsink/fan that comes with it.
so you are saying that if you use the heatsink AMD gives you your warranty is voided?!? AMD may really have to shape up its act if that is the case lol

Well anyways, good luck on your buying descision!
-Amd0Cer

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Old 12-08-03, 08:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by unix and linux
AMD'S now have actually heat output lower?????
When did this happen?? Maybe in 2010 but now rite now.
My p4 watercooled runs at 30 celcius maxload, but my friend barton 2500+(stock) runs at 40 celcius maxload? Could demonic possessions posseing his cpu be causing it to overheat?
Wow, you mean your WATER-COOLED P4 runs cooler than a Stock 2500+??? Geee how could that be?....that must be a new discovery!

Last edited by Tyberius; 12-08-03 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 12-08-03, 08:53 PM   #13
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@MDOCER:
I had 2 120mm fans (stealth and antec) at super low speed and a ball of wires abstructing the flow.

(that has since been changed)

Tyberius: Chill out dude. My sarcasm meter is OFF THE CHARTS.
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Old 12-08-03, 08:59 PM   #14
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Re: Intel VS AMD in the classroom


Quote:
Originally posted by barton2500
For running 24x7 computer classrooms, which would be the better choice, AMD or Intel?

Consider the following issues:
* durability/likelyhood of hardware failure
* ease of repair
* stability
* performance

AMD Athlons tend to run hotter than Intel P4s, both with stock heatsink & fan. Is the Athlon more likely to die before a P4 does? Also bear in mind that AMD's 3 year warranty on retail processor voids when using a heatsink/fan that comes with it.
30C stock too hot? Hope not. it only voids if you either A) use ASIII for eg., or B) use a different other than stock heatsink.

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Old 12-08-03, 09:00 PM   #15
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i think what he meant to say is using a heatsink fan other than the stock one technically voids your warranty, but I was told when I worked at Fry's that the same thing goes for intel. It is a technicality though, pretty much means dont throw away your stock heatsink if you want a warranty, I had a 1700+ die on me, think it was my fault but not sure why, and AMD wouldnt return it because I had thermal epoxied my stock cooler to my Geforce4 ti4400....and obviously couldnt send that in....so hang onto those stock cpu fans, and if you buy OEM keep in mind that AMD doesnt honor those warranties (so I've been told) so you better be sure you have one from where you bought it.
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Old 12-08-03, 09:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by unix and linux
AMD'S now have actually heat output lower?????
When did this happen?? Maybe in 2010 but now rite now.
My p4 watercooled runs at 30 celcius maxload, but my friend barton 2500+(stock) runs at 40 celcius maxload? Could demonic possessions posseing his cpu be causing it to overheat?
Wow.. comparing a water cooled vs. a stock isnt very smart..... 30C for water non overclocked isnt very good anyways..... im getting 30C right now stock.

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Old 12-08-03, 09:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by @md0Cer


You said for yourself that your p4 was watercooled. Did your freinds 2500 have the same cooling setup?

Also, another reason to go p4, is becuase the AMD stock heatsink really is not very good at all. With the stock heatsink, it is possible that it COULD overheat. But, if you have a couple case fans and get some really good airflow going in the case I doubt you will have any trouble. Also, I took my AMD 1700 and ran it at stock speeds, and it put out so little heat that I could turn my fan on the heatsink all the way down to 1200 RPM, and with that little airflow and that crappy of a heatsink (volcano9) , I was still able to run at 37°C load (while running the folding@home program with SSE enabled).

Oh, the stock cooler blows still? I wonder why mine is at 30C right now....

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Old 12-08-03, 09:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyberius


Wow, you mean your WATER-COOLED P4 runs cooler than a Stock 2500+??? Geee how could that be?....that must be a new discovery! I think you should publish an article on how that happened.


lol, ok. Sarcastic but I dont think it breaks one of the rules.


if 9mm censor's didnt didnt overheat with that im sure it would do fine, barton2500. Just as long as you have SOME airflow.

tyberiouse,dippyskoodez, ah, i get it now. At first I thought he said that the stock cooler voided the waranty, but I guess it meant anything but the stock voided the warranty. Thanks.

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Old 12-08-03, 09:12 PM   #19
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WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA! ok dudes, lets calm down a little. In fact, you might want to do a little editing before a mod moderates you. Im pretty sure larva and the others come in here pretty often. Its your descision, just offering a little advice.

Anyways, sorry about my statements about the stock cooler, I was just going off of alot of other peoples opinions. Aparently I was wrong as noted in my post above.

Quote:
really? with the same fan and all? Ive heard a ton about how the stock coolers suck, but I guess I was wrong. Maybe they were just comparing it to like an sk7 or something. Well if it can handle a 200 Mhz O/C and not overheat with a 2500 barton like in sig im assuming, then I think it would do fine

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Old 12-08-03, 09:15 PM   #20
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The voiding of warrenties on AMD chips is a bit of a grey issue. Supposedly anything but the stock cooler will void it. But if someone puts a (arbitrary heatsink selection) TR 800U on with a decent fan, and the chip fails they probably will accept it for a RMA... but not if you continually send them chips back.
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