[FizzledFiend]

Fox, did you see this yet? This is the analysis from an independent lab on our non-conductive coolant Fluid XP+



Conductivity (Electrical) 76 microSiemens/cm ( in all accounts "0")

Conductivity (Thermal) 0.00122 cal/sec-centimeter-C( 84.5% of h2o)

Viscosity @ 20 C 4.37 centiStokes

Viscosity @ 40 C 2.50 centiStokes

Freeze Point -12.5 C (9.5 F)

Boilinig point 99.44 C (211 F with no flash or fire point)



And with it also being non-corrosive, non-toxic, a built-in algae inhibitor, a built-in pump lubricant (preventing pump shearing) and a shelf life of 5+ years, it is the best product for cooling out there if you want to put something in a system and not have to worry about changing it every six months like water. This is our new and improved formula (patent pending) and we are now offering it for a limited time for 49.00 for 32oz. which will fill most systems and have some left over. We are discussing the idea of having a special promotion price which will be tied in with several overclocking websites. We will fill you in as that progresses.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fox Roshak [mailto:foxroshak@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:24 AM
To: sales@integrity-pc.com
Subject: FluidXP+



Whelp you have drawn the attention of a many of us over @ overclockers.com. we are curious as to weather this is better than what we are using now…no standards are set in stone, but I personally have tried many products and this strikes a particular bone with me. Any chance @ getting more detailed information about the product…especially thermal loads and dispisation? How does it compare to the thermal qualities of water?

[Korndog]

way too expensive for just non conductive stuff..
preformance compares to glycol and water
i don't understand why you're drawn to this, please explain..

[FizzledFiend]

I was @ first been a while as you can see from the time I shot e-mail off till I got a response....that alone would push me off...thougut others may want to see what I found

[Clutch_Head]

i'm interested in finding out more on XP+. Silversinksam introduced it
to me over in the cooling additives sticky.

thanks for looking into it for the forums. it's much appreciated .

rich

[xgman]

I tried it and it made my temps go up about 3 degrees over water/zerex. So it may be non-conductive, but it doesn't perform very well. As I mixed some water back in with it, the temps went back down a bit, so maybe good as an alternative additive. Also it smells really bad, like medicated dog shampoo.

[Diggrr]

Originally posted by xgman
Also it smells really bad, like medicated dog shampoo.

With or without the dog?

Watercooling's a great hobby, but if you take away the danger of splooging your system, it's gonna be as fun as checkers.

[Yuriman]

Think you could do total submersion with this stuff? You wouldnt need a waterblock, just have the pump shooting water right onto the die.

[comfortablynumb]

I guess it would be interesting to try a waterblock with no bottom, sealed on to the cpu.
If the stuff is truly nonconductive, that should work pretty good.
In other words, eliminate the material between the fluid and the cpu.
Later

CN

[johan851]

Yeah, it's called direct-die cooling. Already been done, but it has quite a few negative effects. Quick CPU death being one of them...the die tends to soak up water, for some reason.

I think that's quite expensive for an additive myself. Also, as Diggr said, where's the fun if there's no risk?

[Korndog]

Originally posted by Yuriman
Think you could do total submersion with this stuff? You wouldnt need a waterblock, just have the pump shooting water right onto the die.

been done.

Originally posted by comfortablynumb
I guess it would be interesting to try a waterblock with no bottom, sealed on to the cpu.
If the stuff is truly nonconductive, that should work pretty good.
In other words, eliminate the material between the fluid and the cpu.
Later

CN

and been done.


results are worse then some of the current high-end blocks.
copper is a better conductor then that liquid, a lot better. in the long run, its going to the water anyways, but it spreads a bit before convextion thus getting better results. Plus i think adhesive around the cpu (the black stuff) like.. washes away or something.. not sure what happens, but a lot of people who have tried die-cooling say thats what happens and when it does.. sure this stuff is ALMOST non conductive, but when you're dealing with .13microns.. maybe bad stuff will happen? no?

[Korndog]

Originally posted by johan851
Yeah, it's called direct-die cooling. Already been done, but it has quite a few negative effects. Quick CPU death being one of them...the die tends to soak up water, for some reason.

I think that's quite expensive for an additive myself. Also, as Diggr said, where's the fun if there's no risk?

yep, thats why they call it 'danger den' (damn that was korny)

btw, u beat me to it , but die cooling would work with p4 or althonfx with the heatspreaders. drill little holes in it and u got ur self a free cascade

[Raider84]

but if you could get a 100% non-conductive material it wouldnt be dangerous to the die correct? even if the protetive coating disappeareD?

[johan851]

The die might still absorb some, I'm not really sure. It's not a conductivity problem, I know that much, as direct die cooling can be done with normal distilled water.

[JFettig]

I personally have direct die cooled an athlon xp 1600 for about 2 weeks before it died. I beleve it is because the silicon absorbed the water and fried itself. even if it absorbs this stuff, will it fry?



Jon

[FizzledFiend]

could you use that conformal spray on the die?

[JFettig]

And insulate it? insulation isnt good


Jon

[mklt]

XGMAN

Where did you find this Fluid XP+ you said you tried? My understanding is that it is completely new to the market. Some samples where sent out a few years ago when the fluid was developed by a company in Illinois but since then the fluid has been modified and the results have been much improved and the distribution rights were given to Integrity-PC.

Also to my understanding, integrity-pc layed a mother board down in a tupperware tray so the board was half submergered in the fluid and powered it up and it ran 6 hrs before the test was terminated and a second time for 8 hours. I'm pretty sure that no one would be willing to do that with their own mother board. Secondly, I read a review done by Adrenalin vault of Integrities Abys system and it showed the reviewer disconnecting a fluid line and actually ran the fluidXP+ onto the video card and rebooted the system without any effect to the system. Check it out in adrenalin vault (ADV.com I think). I would find the fluid to be a very SAFE alternative to things like windshield fluid (Regular water not deionized) wetter again like antifreeze, zerex type fluids (Phosphates) Deionized water only (Algea) etc.

By the way as a side note, if you have algea in your system the system should be flushed and when rinsing the system use .07 % by weight of Benzotriazole with deionized water only until the system has no clinging algea then reflush the system and refill. It fights algea and it's no conductive. Maybe FluidXP+ might consider using it in their formula if they don't already have it in it.

A couple words about zerex....it contains phosphates and other such chemicals that are somewhat damaging to electronics. Phosphates have a strange way of causing glued parts (i.e. transistors, diodes, chips) to become weak or warped and sometimes come apart. That is why you'll see phosphates used in clothe washing detergents, they break up bonds.

About the smell. Isn't that a non-issue since your system is closed. I don't know what medicated Puppy-dog shampoo smells like but my understanding is that there is a chemical in the fluid (1-dodeconol, an alcohol) that gives it a smell of alcohol that is stronger than any other smell in it.

The price is high. I think for a very safe non-conductive fluid that is used in usually very expensive systems it might be worth it. I would be willing to spend like $29.95 per quart and knowing business I believe that price would come down even more as production increased.

Now, we all know there are people that get into these forums spouting what they "know" about this and that kinda like "know it alls" (I'm not accusing anyone mind you) but they come in and spout things they are not quite sure of as gospel. I would suggest checking this stuff out. Integrity has a email address that you can address questions to specifically regarding fluidXP+ on their website and adrenalin Vault has the review. Check them out. Do homework and then decide.

Again, I'd love to know where you got your fluid XP+.

regards,
mklt

Ps Drew/Arron mklt=pth

[SysCrusher]

Originally posted by FizzledFiend
Fox, did you see this yet? This is the analysis from an independent lab on our non-conductive coolant Fluid XP+



Conductivity (Electrical) 76 microSiemens/cm ( in all accounts "0")

Conductivity (Thermal) 0.00122 cal/sec-centimeter-C( 84.5% of h2o)

Found a little list for you guys.

Thermal Conductivity, W/cm-K

Metals

Aluminum 2.165
Beryllium 1.772
Beryllium-copper 1.063
Brass 70% copper, 30% zinc 1.220
Copper 3.937
Gold 2.913
Iron .669
Lead .343
Magnesium 1.575
Molybdenum 1.299
Monel .197
Nickel .906
Platinum .734
Silver 4.173
Stainless Steel-321 .146
Stainless Steel-410 .240
Steel, low carbon .669
Tin .630
Titanium .157
Tungsten 1.969
Zinc 1.024

Semiconductors

GaAs .591
Silicon (pure) 1.457
Silicon (.0025 ohm-cm) .984
Silicon Dioxide (amorphous) .014
Silicon Dioxide (quartz) c-axis .11
Silicon Dioxide (quartz) a-axis .059
Silicon Nitride .16 - .33
Silicon Carbide .90

Insulators

Air (still) .0003
Sapphire c-axis .35
Sapphire a-axis .32
Alumina .276
Alumina 85% .118
Beryllia 99.5% 1.969
Beryllia 97% 1.575
Beryllia 95% 1.161
Boron Nitride (hot pressed) .394
Diamond (room temperature) 6.299
Diamond (77 K) 24.
Diamond (room temperature, isotopically pure) 50.
Epoxy .002
Thermally conductive epoxy .008
Glass .008
Heat sink compound (metal oxide loaded grease) .004
Mica .007
Mylar .002
Phenolic .002
Silicone Grease .002
Silicone Rubber .002
Teflon .002
FR-4 or G-10 PC board material .003
water .0055 <---------compared to fluid xp at .00122.
Liquid Helium (4.2K) .000307
Liquid Nitrogen (77K) .001411
Liquid Argon (85K) .001258

Thermally Conductive Elastomers

Bergquist Sil-pads .009
Tecknit Consil-C 871 .023
Tecknit Consil-R 350 .00433 to .00732
Saracon 2.9e-3 cal/cm-sec-K
Chomerics XTS-274 alumina filled elastomer .002 cal/sec cm K
Cho-seal 1224 .038
Cho-therm .0433
Cho-therm 1678 .018
Cho-therm 1671 .027

[xgman]

Originally posted by mklt
XGMAN

Where did you find this Fluid XP+ you said you tried? My understanding is that it is completely new to the market. Some samples where sent out a few years ago when the fluid was developed by a company in Illinois but since then the fluid has been modified and the results have been much improved and the distribution rights were given to Integrity-PC.

Also to my understanding, integrity-pc layed a mother board down in a tupperware tray so the board was half submergered in the fluid and powered it up and it ran 6 hrs before the test was terminated and a second time for 8 hours. I'm pretty sure that no one would be willing to do that with their own mother board. Secondly, I read a review done by Adrenalin vault of Integrities Abys system and it showed the reviewer disconnecting a fluid line and actually ran the fluidXP+ onto the video card and rebooted the system without any effect to the system. Check it out in adrenalin vault (ADV.com I think). I would find the fluid to be a very SAFE alternative to things like windshield fluid (Regular water not deionized) wetter again like antifreeze, zerex type fluids (Phosphates) Deionized water only (Algea) etc.

By the way as a side note, if you have algea in your system the system should be flushed and when rinsing the system use .07 % by weight of Benzotriazole with deionized water only until the system has no clinging algea then reflush the system and refill. It fights algea and it's no conductive. Maybe FluidXP+ might consider using it in their formula if they don't already have it in it.

A couple words about zerex....it contains phosphates and other such chemicals that are somewhat damaging to electronics. Phosphates have a strange way of causing glued parts (i.e. transistors, diodes, chips) to become weak or warped and sometimes come apart. That is why you'll see phosphates used in clothe washing detergents, they break up bonds.

About the smell. Isn't that a non-issue since your system is closed. I don't know what medicated Puppy-dog shampoo smells like but my understanding is that there is a chemical in the fluid (1-dodeconol, an alcohol) that gives it a smell of alcohol that is stronger than any other smell in it.

The price is high. I think for a very safe non-conductive fluid that is used in usually very expensive systems it might be worth it. I would be willing to spend like $29.95 per quart and knowing business I believe that price would come down even more as production increased.

Now, we all know there are people that get into these forums spouting what they "know" about this and that kinda like "know it alls" (I'm not accusing anyone mind you) but they come in and spout things they are not quite sure of as gospel. I would suggest checking this stuff out. Integrity has a email address that you can address questions to specifically regarding fluidXP+ on their website and adrenalin Vault has the review. Check them out. Do homework and then decide.

Again, I'd love to know where you got your fluid XP+.

regards,
mklt

Ps Drew/Arron mklt=pth

LOL, I bought it from you (Arron at Integrety) if you are associated with Integrety, to test last month. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there is not a place for it. As a non conductive, it is great, but the only thing I was saying is that it does not lower temps over plain water, at least in my test. That said, it was only a few degrees higher, and that may be worth it to protect your circuit boards. I am not making a judgement of the product other than a finding that temsp went up a few degrees and back down as soon as I mixed plain water back in. Others may find different results. And it did smell like pet shampoo, but that wouldn't stop me.

[mklt]

You make the fluid out to be much less effective than water but if you look at the w/cm-K vs. cal/sec-cm-c you'll see a more accurate comparison of the fluids performance. .00122 cal/sec-cm-c comes out to approximately .00510448 w/cm-k.

.00510448/.0055 = . 928

So in essence the % of effectiveness to water is actually 92.8% which we all know is better than the aforementioned advertised 84.5%. Maybe they need to recheck some calculations.

Regards,
mklt
engineering mathematician extraordinar`