Swiftech MCW6000-A - did it really bit cascde?

Orka · May 29, 2004

Swiftech MCW6000-A - did it really beat cascade?

read the article at procooling about the new swiftech waterblock.
http://www.procooling.com/reviews/html/swiftech_mcw6000-a_review_-_5_.php

at the bottom of the article there is a graph that shows temp delta of several blocks with flowrate from 0.5 to 2.5 GPM and it shows that mcw6000-a is a bit better than cascade at slow flow and to WhiteWater it took whole 2GPM to match it. seems like mcw6000-a is an excelent block.

Hordsak · May 29, 2004

That's why I have one on order =) They're supposed to be the best bang for your buck.

FIZZ3 · May 29, 2004

It's only better at low flow rates, but keep in mind that the performance to be had there (delta ~11C @ .5gpm) can be improved upon by increasing flow rate... and taking a better block like the Cascade (delta <10C @ 1.25gpm). If you take the Cascade to 2gpm you're at 9C delta, where the Swiftech is at 9.5C. Surely not huge differences and the Swiftech isn't a bad block by any standard, but the Cascade is slightly better at reasonable flowrates (>1gpm).

Orka · May 29, 2004

FIZZ3 said:
If you take the Cascade to 2gpm you're at 9C delta, where the Swiftech is at 9.5C. Surely not huge differences and the Swiftech isn't a bad block by any standard, but the Cascade is slightly better at reasonable flowrates (>1gpm).

cascade, as far as i know is the best block, at least till i saw that article. whitewater, which is among the best, is sold by pre-order before they even heat the stock. and if someone managed to catch a WW in stock and oredred it there are over-excited threads in this and other forums about being that much lucky. and you say it's not a bad block. well ... supposing the check that was made at procooling is right and fair (i belive it is since mr. Bill Adams was involved) it is indeed "not a bad block". concidering both the price and the performance it might be the best one.

FIZZ3 · May 29, 2004

Orka said:
cascade, as far as i know is the best block, at least till i saw that article. whitewater, which is among the best, is sold by pre-order before they even heat the stock. and if someone managed to catch a WW in stock and oredred it there are over-excited threads in this and other forums about being that much lucky. and you say it's not a bad block. well ... supposing the check that was made at procooling is right and fair (i belive it is since mr. Bill Adams was involved) it is indeed "not a bad block". concidering both the price and the performance it might be the best one.

It depends on your perspective... a Celeron CPU will offer you 80% of Pentium performance at 50% of the price. To me, the Celeron does not 'beat' the P4, however.
In a way, the same goes here: the Cascade can deliver the most performance of all blocks compared here (lowest point in the figure = cascade). Whether it is worth the price and effort to get is up to the buyer to decide.
When I say the Cascade is 'better' (see above post), I'm talking about performance only; the most objective measurement to go by.

JDizzle · May 29, 2004

That MCW6000 is a nice block but I think I'm going to wait for the MCW6002 to go up for sale.

I think most people don't buy the Cascade because it perforums .5C better than other blocks but because it is rare and it's a Cascade.

The Big One · May 29, 2004

True
and also , don't forget , the new cascade is comming and then will see
wich block is better.

MCW6002 ?
never heared about it, have a link ir somthing?

sbud · May 29, 2004

The Big One said:
MCW6002 ?
never heared about it, have a link ir somthing?

You mean a link to Swiftech ?

The Big One · May 29, 2004

So its just a MCW6000 with 1/2 barb's?

u know , the MCW6002 may be chiper then the cascade , but it looks !##$%# unlike the sexy Cascade SS.

Diggrr · May 29, 2004

The Big One said:
So its just a MCW6000 with 1/2 barb's?

u know , the MCW6002 may be chiper then the cascade , but it looks !##$%# unlike the sexy Cascade SS.

Yep, MCW6000 = 3/8" in/out...MCW6002 = 1/2" in/out.

The looks is a matter of taste. I love the smaller block, and the copper/blue look of the Swifty block better than the Cascade. The performance is an added bonus.
The push fittings that Phaestus used for the article make it look bad, but picture it with those out of the way, using small blue band clamps instead....sweetness.

AngryAlpaca · May 29, 2004

It depends on your perspective... a Celeron CPU will offer you 80% of Pentium performance at 50% of the price. To me, the Celeron does not 'beat' the P4, however.

Or, you could get an Athlon and get 100+% of the performance at 50% of the price... Buying a Celeron is like buying a silver block with a maze design. 2GPM is irrelevant, as you won't get that high of flow. At 1GPM, where you'll be around, the Cascade beats the MCW6000 by 0.25C. That's not measurable to most people, and the MCW6000 is easier to mount because it uses the socket mounting system.

MCW6002 = 1/2" in/out.

The only difference is the OD of the inlet and outlet, and the ID of the outlet. It will be almost equally restrictive, but it does allow you to use 1/2" tubing.

weapon · May 29, 2004

AngryAlpaca said:
The only difference is the OD of the inlet and outlet, and the ID of the outlet. It will be almost equally restrictive, but it does allow you to use 1/2" tubing.

that makes me want to buy one, take it apart, cut off the inlet and outlet and then braze true 1/2" ID fittings on it.

I wonder how it would perform with downright silly levels of flow? hooking it into my current loop would make it interesting - RLQO pump (rated for 1140gph or 700gph+ at 4 feet of head and 1" ID tubing) + dual modded 77 bonneville heatercores w/2 120mm SanAce fans on each core (totals out to about 206cfm moving thru the cores).

hmmmm...those blocks are only about $40....damn that is tempting

LTi · May 29, 2004

very nice looking block i must say, but ever one his taste, i will most likely get one of these next time i redo my water cooling

Hordsak · May 29, 2004

I must say, I liked the "looks" of the old swiftech block. But, with the increase in performance, I'll take the new block. I'm still itching to get my parts in.

AngryAlpaca · May 29, 2004

Rather than cutting off the existing ones just epoxy a 3/8"ID-1/2" adaptor onto the barbs. Lit: You are the first person I have ever heard call this block a nice looking one (I don't think it looks bad, but really, I don't care)

weapon · May 29, 2004

AngryAlpaca said:
Rather than cutting off the existing ones just epoxy a 3/8"ID-1/2" adaptor onto the barbs. Lit: You are the first person I have ever heard call this block a nice looking one (I don't think it looks bad, but really, I don't care)

I wouldn't want to bottleneck it - a full sized ID fitting straight in and another one straight out would be the way to go if at all possible. beside, if I cut em off I get to break out the torch to install new ones....any reason to break out the torch is good enough for me.

Cathar · May 29, 2004

weapon said:
I wouldn't want to bottleneck it - a full sized ID fitting straight in and another one straight out would be the way to go if at all possible. beside, if I cut em off I get to break out the torch to install new ones....any reason to break out the torch is good enough for me.

A not insignificant aspect of the block's performance will be coming from the center-inlet jet. Putting a larger inlet on it will very likely result in a lowering of performance, even though you might get the flow rates up a bit. The bulk of the design's resistance appears to me to be coming from the internals itself, and not the inlet/outlet. Increasing the inlet size is not going to dramatically improve flow resistance, and due to the larger jet lowering the inlet velocity will cause a net reduction in performance at any given pumping pressure.

What you're proposing is almost exactly a script on how to make the block worse than what it is.

Hordsak · May 29, 2004

Cathar said:
A not insignificant aspect of the block's performance will be coming from the center-inlet jet. Putting a larger inlet on it will very likely result in a lowering of performance, even though you might get the flow rates up a bit. The bulk of the design's resistance appears to me to be coming from the internals itself, and not the inlet/outlet. Increasing the inlet size is not going to dramatically improve flow resistance, and due to the larger jet lowering the inlet velocity will cause a net reduction in performance at any given pumping pressure.

What you're proposing is almost exactly a script on how to make the block worse than what it is.

Exactly. Swiftech, is not stupid. They have a reason for marketing theyre product at 3/8 ID.

Garrik · May 29, 2004

Hordsak said:
Exactly. Swiftech, is not stupid. They have a reason for marketing theyre product at 3/8 ID.

Yeah, but they have a 1/2" version listed on their site. Rumor has it that it'll be available in ~2weeks. I'll be interested to see if it performs any better (doesn't seem likely based on Cathar's comments above). But, it will be nice for people with 1/2" systems....

AngryAlpaca · May 29, 2004

It will definitely NOT perform any better. It MIGHT have a ~0.5" reduction in pressure drop, but I doubt it will be that large. The purpose of the 1/2" version is to make it easily compatibly with 1/2" tubing, nothing more.

Swiftech MCW6000-A - did it really bit cascde?

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