[Vrykyl]

Ok, this is gonna sound at first like one of the many "which should I buy - x800pro/xt-pe 6800gt/ultra?" threads that have been appearing lately. Ok it kind of is, but I have a few more questions. Firstly this is NOT a comparison of these cards at STOCK, im talking about OC'd.
Iv been shopping around here in the uk and found that there is very little difference for me in the price of all these new high end gpu's, making the 'saving money vs performance' argument in the gt vs pro threads a little irrelevant in the decision. For example -
x800pro no vivo = £270+ (stuck as pro unless very lucky)
x800pro VIVO = £290+ (and CAN be softmodded to xt pe)
6800gt = £290+ (can be OC'd to Ultra from what I gather)
6800 almost ultra = £320 (asus v9999 gamer edition- 50mhz less than asus ultra extreme but faster than GT)
6800ultra = £340-600 (but eats power - i only have 520w)
x800xt-pe = £360-400 (may or may not be king of the hill)

So as far as I can see it comes down to relative performance, and potential (in the lower cards) of overclockability to the performance of a higher card. AFAIC a 6800ultra sucks way to much juice for me, and in my system that makes the card a no. IMO if a 6800gt can OC to ultra speeds or above (experiences here anyone? i know some people have em now) than the 6800ultra dissapears as a sensible choice for anyone except those chasing 3dmrk03 records. Same applies for the x800pro vivo - as it can be simply softmodded into an xt-pe (as its the same core and has the same ram, its just clocked lower and has the extra 4 pipelines disabled).

However, before this becomes another gt vs pro debate, i was hoping someone could tell me if the pro as an xt-pe actually performs the same? A GT as an ultra is virtually the same - pipe no are the same tho ram chips are different but at the same clocks the difference in performance is tiny. My concern is that the x800pro vivo has only 12pipes, whilst the x800xt-pe has 16....so will the softmod to give it the extra pipes hit performance? What im saying is the x800xt-pe has always had 16pipes and performs as it should with them, but im concerned that as the x800pro vivo has only had 12pipes but suddenly has to deal with 16, at the same clocks as an xt-pe it will still lag behind performance wise because it cant cope with the extra pipes......
Iv been told that as the uk vivo cards ARE xt-pe's that are bios locked, the softmod makes them a proper xt-pe: everything is identical (core, clock, ram), and that the converted pro will then happily give the SAME performance as an xt-pe and overclock the same as an xt-pe too, it wont reach an OC limit lower than an original xt-pe. Is this true??? If it is then the x800xt-pe also stops being a sensible choice for the little extra cash.

If this is the case then the choice for me really would become overclocked 6800gt (as an ultra) vs overclocked x800pro vivo (running as xt-pe). Similar price, and thus I have to ask - which would be best for me? a stupid question maybe, but what im after is:

Sheer performance and image quality -
comparing the gt and pro oc'd to ultra and xt-pe's (not a comparison of stock) which performs better? im not bothered about 3dmrk03 scores, theyre nice but often not that relevant to game playability. Im talking about game fps and on screen image quality.... i got screwed over with my fx5950, it 3dmrk'd great but sucked at actual gaming and compared to my mates 9800xt the IQ was noticeably lacking. I play all the latest games (plus the doom3 and halflife2 *cough* 'previews') on a 20" tft, so these cards need to be pushing max settings, AF an AA at atleast 1280x1024, but preferably 1600x1200.

Heat output and power consumption -
I dont want another fx5950-style hot brick pumping out heat into my rig, sucking juice that my cpu or hdd's want. Im looking for cool (as far as that possible on a gpu) and low power, im not prepared to water cool as my rig gets moved a lot, so its air cooled (custom air that is) for whatever I get.

Iv heard that all these cards are very cpu limited, my sigs a little outdated, but im running my p4 @ 4.1ghz under a prommie, with 1gb pc4000 running 1:1. Will this make the most of these cards?

Please help me choose!!!! Thanks

TG

[Vrykyl]

Anyone?

[micamica1217]

my spicific reply to you would be far too long for my poor hands to type...
maybe we should talk on teamspeak2....LOOK.
you do have a mic?

type "www.netboundaries.com:8773" in the server address, and your nickname.

if you don't have a mic them I'll be back in 5mins with a long reply.

mica

[Vrykyl]

sorry, no mic and SLOOOOW 56k internet im afraid! i miss the 1mb line i have at home

[FIZZ3]

One concern I'd have with the GT card in your case is that it's nearly identical to the 'power hog' ultra card. If you're going to overclock it to Ultra levels, the power draw and heat output will probably be comparable.

The best 'upper-midrange' card would be a 800XT _ like the one they (will) produce for PCI-Express; 16 lines, lower clock than the PE. Sort of like the GT but with the apparently more modest power/heat specs.

[Vrykyl]

I dont know how my psu would cope with an ultra (or gt if that hogs badly too), as its only a 520w cr@ppy vantec one thats already running all the stuff in my sig - p4 @4.1ghz, 2hdds etc....
any ideas on the x800pro conversion to xt-pe performance?

micamica1217 - you seem to be he dude to ask about x800's...hows about that long reply? sorry for asking so much initially!!

[micamica1217]

I'll take the no reply as you might not have a mic to speak with...
*&%^$@# carpel tunel syndrome is killing my hand today.

anyway, both the 6800gt and the x800pro are great cards...you can't go wrong with any of them.

let's talk about what I've seen and heared about both and let you deside what to get.


first the 6800gt:

first off you'll need to OC it to 6800u speeds to "truly" compete against the x800pro (non OCed or moded).
the 6800 cards do quite well in OpenGL yet seem to have a hard time in shader intencive DX games. Farcry comes to mind.

most 6800gt's seem to be reaching the 6800u speeds so that's not a big deal or problem.
yet your also talking IQ too....
90% of the reviews that your seeing are tested with the nVidia cards running with brilinear filtering.
so take off 2fps-10fps in each score, depending on the game, if your going to run in full trilinear.
(and realy look at the 6800u tests, as that is basicly what your getting once you OC your 6800gt)
sofar, there is no WHQL certifide driver for the 6800 cards...
the 61.43 seems to at least be a candidate.

the 6800gt has SM3.0 suport, the x800pro doesn't.

the quality of AA and AF seems to be real good with the 6800 cards...
yet you'll never use higher the 4xAA as the 6 and 8 seems to realy tank the framerate.
I would say that you'll be running 1280x1024 in every game, with some AA and AF easy. (2xAA and 8xAF bare min)...after you OC

the x800pro:

don't expect to mod it to the xt's 16 pipelines...
the sucsess rate is low.
yet that is not a big deal.

the x800pro OCs like a dream.
I'm already past x800xt in core and memory speeds...with air cooling.
and the ramp up in speed is not bad on it's own.

with the x800pro head to head with the 6800u in most games, once you OC it, you'll do quite well against an OCed 6800gt.

even in the new farcry patch that enables PS3.0, the x800pro (with out the new patch) beats the 6800u with PS3.0....
look here for more info...LOOK.
seems it takes the new patch to lower the x800 scores by as much as 20% to first have the 6800u do well with PS3.0...LOL

heat is not a problem with this card, yet I'm sure the 6800gt is just as good.

with the cat4.6 drivers, you got a 5%-15% performance boost in all games...
and 1000 extra marks in 3dmark03 doesn't hurt. (as compared to the cat4.5's)

I'm testing the beta cat4.7's now...real nice if you ask me.
about another 2%-5% boost in speed.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2743246

you realy don't need the extra pipes with a good OCed x800pro...
I'm beating the 6800u(stock) in most real world gaming, easy.

I would say that you'll be running 1280x1024 in every game, with some AA and AF easy. (2xAA and 8xAF bare min)...before you OC, better once you OC.

mica

[Vrykyl]

looks to me like the x800pro is the way to go for me then - the x800xts are just to damn expensive in comparison. I have to say IMO ati has the better IQ if past cards are anything to go buy, and i tend not to game higher than 1280x1024 otherwise I cant see certain things (distant sniper for example) cos im so darn blind
Thanks mica, youve converted me to ati! thisl be the first ati card iv owned since my 32mb radeon7000 that i was given 2nd hand!!

[micamica1217]

Originally Posted by Vrykyl

looks to me like the x800pro is the way to go for me then - the x800xts are just to damn expensive in comparison. I have to say IMO ati has the better IQ if past cards are anything to go buy, and i tend not to game higher than 1280x1024 otherwise I cant see certain things (distant sniper for example) cos im so darn blind
Thanks mica, youve converted me to ati! thisl be the first ati card iv owned since my 32mb radeon7000 that i was given 2nd hand!!

as I've said, you can't go wrong with any card.

yet as for power draw, I am using only an antec true 430 in my rig...check siggy.

mica