General question on computing power

bbuster · 07-15-04, 04:43 PM

My father runs a graphics application that is a proprietary vector art program used to design parking permits, etc. When ganging up several thousand permits it eats the cpu alive for several minutes, durning which time he can basically do nothing else. He is thinking about buying a new system but we need to get as much cpu bang for the buck as possible. I guess what I'm asking is (without starting a war) which processor would be best with floating point calculations? Right now he has a P4 1.8 and It's not near powerful enough.

David · 07-15-04, 04:55 PM

His best bet may be a dual CPU system. If the application is multithreaded it can use both CPUs. If it is not, it will use one CPU leaving the other free so he can multitask. I'm not sure which MP system would be best though - AthlonMP, Opteron, or Xeon.

nealric · 07-15-04, 05:00 PM

How much does he want to spend?

A cheap and good setup would be a dual xp2500-M. A friend of mine got these up and running (oced to 2.5ghz) for about $400 for mobo/cpus.

Other than that, you could go for the beast and get a socket 939- that would be almost double the computing power.

bbuster · 07-15-04, 05:24 PM

939 is what I'm thinking. He's not afraid to spend so money it appears. He just wants some power that isn't obsenely priced.

Drec · 07-15-04, 05:45 PM

sounds like the job for a dually, but any 939 should tear through it.

define obsenly priced please?

Yuriman · 07-15-04, 06:08 PM

Why not dual opterons? Also, I am thinking it might also take a lot of hard drive power, so maybe raid as well?

TheGame240 · 07-16-04, 12:51 AM

I would think an overclocked XP Mobile should be plenty of CPU for almost any application. Going MP might help, but most apps aren't written to make use that kind of system. So chances are it wouldn't make any kind of difference in that particular app. You should probably take time to email the software vendor and see if that particular application can make use of dual processors.

You may have already done this, but you should also make sure that it is indeed the CPU that is the limiting factor. I've had many apps/processes that at first sight would appear to be CPU intensive, but were actually Memory/HD intensive. Same end results, (system is unusable until they end) but very different causes. It may turn out that a simple memory upgrade, or a raid controller and additional HD would be a better fix than a new CPU/MB.

batboy · 07-16-04, 08:28 AM

The 1.8 P-4 is a 400 bus CPU. The 800 bus P-4's will have a huge performance increase and will have the advantage of hyperthreading. While HT is no substitute for dual procs, it will help. An upgrade to an 800 bus CPU like the 3.0C will probably require an upgrade to an i865/i875 chipset mobo too.

In reality, I suspect his trouble is more of a lack of RAM and memory bandwidth than anything. How much does he currently have? The i865/i875 chipset mobos have dual channel DDR compared to the single channel he currently has which should help a lot. Slap in 2X512 meg of PC3200 RAM and then rock 'n' roll.

dippy_skoodlez · 07-16-04, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbuster

He is thinking about buying a new system but we need to get as much cpu bang for the buck as possible. I guess what I'm asking is (without starting a war) which processor would be best with floating point calculations? Right now he has a P4 1.8 and It's not near powerful enough.

Either a new AXP 2600+M system, overclocked, or an A64.

FPU is AMD land

An old 1.8A? Yikes. An A64 3200+ would eat that thing alive, letalone in an AMD favoring type application.

Get an A64 if the program isnt vcapable of utilizing dual CPU's.

dippy_skoodlez · 07-16-04, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batboy

In reality, I suspect his trouble is more of a lack of RAM and memory bandwidth than anything. How much does he currently have? The i865/i875 chipset mobos have dual channel DDR compared to the single channel he currently has which should help a lot. Slap in 2X512 meg of PC3200 RAM and then rock 'n' roll.

Lack of bandwidth yes, but teh willy 1.8 is just terrible with FPU to begin with. An AXP 1700+ would blow it away.

bbuster · 07-16-04, 11:33 AM

Thanks for all the help guys. I have checked and it is cpu intensive and not mem or hdd. I think the A64 is the way to go in that case. Socket 939 with a 3800+ should do the trick. Would this be cheaper to build myself....he prefers to buy stuff for business use. Know any good vendors for a system like that? Alienware maybe?

Maxwell Murder · 07-16-04, 11:58 AM

Ack... Alienware... Ewww. Building it your self and buying the parts from Newegg would do you fine and it would be very cheap, but if he doesnt want to build it himself and cost isnt an issue then by all means just buy an alienware

dippy_skoodlez · 07-16-04, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbuster

Thanks for all the help guys. I have checked and it is cpu intensive and not mem or hdd. I think the A64 is the way to go in that case. Socket 939 with a 3800+ should do the trick. Would this be cheaper to build myself....he prefers to buy stuff for business use. Know any good vendors for a system like that? Alienware maybe?

Try ABS?

ALienware is quite overpriced.

Yuriman · 07-16-04, 12:21 PM

The difference between the 3500+ and the 3800+ is 200mhz and $400. Drop it down a tad and save money.

Agent_Mull · 07-16-04, 01:19 PM

www.Cyberpowerpc.com Thats where i bought my comp b4 i knew how to build them.

Mortis03 · 07-16-04, 03:45 PM

As others have said, you can get a HT cpu at like 3.0 ghz or so and that would be a lot better then what you have and not spend an arm and a leg as with a dual processor system. It would be comparible to one though. I dont have much experience w/ dual processors though, so I could be way off here

White Star · 07-16-04, 09:35 PM

I am so going to get kicked for this, but, if your program runs on Mac, have you looked at G5s? AKA Athlon PPC. Athlon may own FPU in the x86 world, but let's face it, x86 generally is no match for PPC. Or if you just want to go all out on the FPU, there's always Alpha processors.

No seriously. It may be worth it to see if the program runs on Mac OS X. Another thing you should also consider in the mean time is throwing that program on a 386 or a 486. That'll help you process everything faster than that P4 1.8. Lord knows early P4's couldn't process to save their worthless lives.

07-15-04, 04:43 PM	Thread Starter #1
bbuster Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Alabama	General question on computing power My father runs a graphics application that is a proprietary vector art program used to design parking permits, etc. When ganging up several thousand permits it eats the cpu alive for several minutes, durning which time he can basically do nothing else. He is thinking about buying a new system but we need to get as much cpu bang for the buck as possible. I guess what I'm asking is (without starting a war) which processor would be best with floating point calculations? Right now he has a P4 1.8 and It's not near powerful enough. __________________ ==>StargazeR<== Athlon 3800+ X2 @ 2.0Ghz DFI Infinity NF4 1GB PC4000 OCZ gold ATI X800 series
	QUOTE Thanks

07-15-04, 04:55 PM	#2
David Forums Super Moderator Overclockers.com Lead Editor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Americans and making pretty colours in a drybox in St Andrews	His best bet may be a dual CPU system. If the application is multithreaded it can use both CPUs. If it is not, it will use one CPU leaving the other free so he can multitask. I'm not sure which MP system would be best though - AthlonMP, Opteron, or Xeon. __________________ David J. Nelson MChem(Edin) PhD(Strath) AMRSC [Academia Profile] OC Forums Super Moderator // Overclockers.com Editor The Workhorse: [Lenovo W510] Intel Core i7-720QM / 8 GB DDR3 / nVidia Quadro FX880M / Crucial M4 256 GB SSD / Windows 7 The HTPC/Server: AMD Phenom X4 9650 / 6 GB DDR2 / nVidia 8300 / 5 TB of HDDs / Antec Solo II Case / Windows 7 The Gaming Rig: AMD Llano A6-3650 / 4 GB DDR3 / nVidia GTX260 / 2x 500 GB HDD in RAID0 / Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 Case / Windows 7 The Benchmarking Setup: Various LGA775 chips / Asus Rampage Formula / 2 GB OCZ 1066 MHz DDR2 / nVidia Quadro NVS 285 / 320 GB HDD / Windows 7 My research fellowship is eating all my time, so I may be slow to reply to emails and private messages.
	QUOTE Thanks

07-15-04, 05:00 PM	#3
nealric Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: under the floorboards	How much does he want to spend? A cheap and good setup would be a dual xp2500-M. A friend of mine got these up and running (oced to 2.5ghz) for about $400 for mobo/cpus. Other than that, you could go for the beast and get a socket 939- that would be almost double the computing power. __________________ I own a computer!
	QUOTE Thanks

07-15-04, 05:24 PM	Thread Starter #4
bbuster Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Alabama	939 is what I'm thinking. He's not afraid to spend so money it appears. He just wants some power that isn't obsenely priced. __________________ ==>StargazeR<== Athlon 3800+ X2 @ 2.0Ghz DFI Infinity NF4 1GB PC4000 OCZ gold ATI X800 series
	QUOTE Thanks

07-15-04, 05:45 PM	#5
Drec Member Join Date: May 2004	sounds like the job for a dually, but any 939 should tear through it. define obsenly priced please?
	QUOTE Thanks

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07-15-04, 06:08 PM	#6
Yuriman Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The OCFORUMS	Why not dual opterons? Also, I am thinking it might also take a lot of hard drive power, so maybe raid as well?
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 12:51 AM	#7
TheGame240 Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Muscle Shoals, AL	I would think an overclocked XP Mobile should be plenty of CPU for almost any application. Going MP might help, but most apps aren't written to make use that kind of system. So chances are it wouldn't make any kind of difference in that particular app. You should probably take time to email the software vendor and see if that particular application can make use of dual processors. You may have already done this, but you should also make sure that it is indeed the CPU that is the limiting factor. I've had many apps/processes that at first sight would appear to be CPU intensive, but were actually Memory/HD intensive. Same end results, (system is unusable until they end) but very different causes. It may turn out that a simple memory upgrade, or a raid controller and additional HD would be a better fix than a new CPU/MB.
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 08:28 AM	#8
batboy Senior Moment Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kansas, USA	The 1.8 P-4 is a 400 bus CPU. The 800 bus P-4's will have a huge performance increase and will have the advantage of hyperthreading. While HT is no substitute for dual procs, it will help. An upgrade to an 800 bus CPU like the 3.0C will probably require an upgrade to an i865/i875 chipset mobo too. In reality, I suspect his trouble is more of a lack of RAM and memory bandwidth than anything. How much does he currently have? The i865/i875 chipset mobos have dual channel DDR compared to the single channel he currently has which should help a lot. Slap in 2X512 meg of PC3200 RAM and then rock 'n' roll. __________________ 2600K, Asus P8P67 Deluxe, 2X2GB G.Skill Pi PC3-2133, PC & Cooling 750W watercooled: Eheim 1048 pump, Swiftech Apogee GTX and 2X120mm rad FS020 case, OCZ SSD, Sapphire HD 6950, Acer X241W 24" widescreen
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 11:33 AM	Thread Starter #11
bbuster Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Alabama	Thanks for all the help guys. I have checked and it is cpu intensive and not mem or hdd. I think the A64 is the way to go in that case. Socket 939 with a 3800+ should do the trick. Would this be cheaper to build myself....he prefers to buy stuff for business use. Know any good vendors for a system like that? Alienware maybe? __________________ ==>StargazeR<== Athlon 3800+ X2 @ 2.0Ghz DFI Infinity NF4 1GB PC4000 OCZ gold ATI X800 series
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 11:58 AM	#12
Maxwell Murder Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Boston, MA	Ack... Alienware... Ewww. Building it your self and buying the parts from Newegg would do you fine and it would be very cheap, but if he doesnt want to build it himself and cost isnt an issue then by all means just buy an alienware
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 12:21 PM	#14
Yuriman Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The OCFORUMS	The difference between the 3500+ and the 3800+ is 200mhz and $400. Drop it down a tad and save money.
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 01:19 PM	#15
Agent_Mull Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leawood, KS	www.Cyberpowerpc.com Thats where i bought my comp b4 i knew how to build them.
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 03:45 PM	#16
Mortis03 Member Join Date: Jul 2004	As others have said, you can get a HT cpu at like 3.0 ghz or so and that would be a lot better then what you have and not spend an arm and a leg as with a dual processor system. It would be comparible to one though. I dont have much experience w/ dual processors though, so I could be way off here
	QUOTE Thanks

07-16-04, 09:35 PM	#17
White Star Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minnesota	Meep? I am so going to get kicked for this, but, if your program runs on Mac, have you looked at G5s? AKA Athlon PPC. Athlon may own FPU in the x86 world, but let's face it, x86 generally is no match for PPC. Or if you just want to go all out on the FPU, there's always Alpha processors. No seriously. It may be worth it to see if the program runs on Mac OS X. Another thing you should also consider in the mean time is throwing that program on a 386 or a 486. That'll help you process everything faster than that P4 1.8. Lord knows early P4's couldn't process to save their worthless lives.
	QUOTE Thanks

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