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To 3400+ or to 3500+?

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Sa3atsky

Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Bahrain
I'm baffled: either getting a 3400+ 754 or a 3500+ 939
Here are the two processors:
3400+: ADA3400AEP5AR 1.5V (CG rev, F4Ah) <- ClawHammer, 1 MB L2, 2.2 GHz, x11
3500+: ADA3500DEP4AW 1.5V (CG rev, FF0h) <- "NewCastle 939", 512 KB L2, 2.2 GHz, x11

They both cost in the $280 range, I wanna make sure what to get once and for all..
I'm aiming to overclock ofcourse, say from 2.2Ghz to 2.6-2.7Ghz
The 3400 has 1mb L2 cache, but the 3500 is newer 939 architecture + dualchannel DDR
What to get what to get? :bang head
 
This is what I posted yesterday in a thread about a similar topic.

hitechjb1 said:
The price difference between a system based on 754 3400+ and a system based on 939 3500+ is very little, and almost 0% in total cost. So between the two, IMO, I would narrow down to a 939 system at this point. The 939 has better cover for high memory bandwidth applications (such as video encoding/streaming, scientific) and longer lasting 939 compatibility.

Further from this poll (2 days old), less than 10% (3 out of 38 voters at this time) of the voters would settle for a 754 system for good, meaning most people would want a 939 eventually. If one builds a 754 now, there will be resale and possbile loss when replacing 754 with 939 later.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=315646


For choice of motherboards (both 754, 939), please refer to these two posts which link to lots of reviews, anandtech editor choice and some members experience.
For 939, MSI K8N Neo2, ABIT AV8, Gigabyte K8NSNXP-939 ($200+), ASUS A8V (new version maybe) are possible choice.
For 754, EPOX 8KDA3(+/J), MSI K8N Neo, ABIT KV8, Gigabit K8NSNXP are poplular. Some boards can support mobile A64.

A64 Nforce3 Motherboards (754, 939) (post 11)
A64 K8T800 Pro Motherboards (754, 939) (post 12)

Exemplary A64 systems: setups, results and experiences (post 63)


For memory modules for A64, this post discusses many aspect for A64 memory and lists many modules, including tradeoff among them, e.g. tight timing under 250 MHz or relax timing for 250-300 MHz.

Memory modules (for 754 and 939 platforms) (post 14)


I suppose video card and graphic card in your list mean the same thing.
If targeting for PCI-e, there is no motherboard until later 2004 to run PCI-e video card, such as motherboards with Nforce4 chipset.
For price-performance, a 9800 pro 128 MB can be had for under $200.
For latest high end card for gaming, X800pro 256 MB is very poplular.

For power supply used for overclocking, the popluar choices are
Antec True Power (480W, 550W), Fortron (530 W), some Enermax. Antec TP 550 has higher 12V current rating and fan control. Haven't follow lately whether there are some good new ones.

For HD, WD with 8 MB cache are very inexpensive now. Let other to comment on some new Raptors. Most Nforce3 boards have native chipset support for RAID 0/1/0+1/JBOD.
 
hitechjb1 said:
This is what I posted yesterday in a thread about a similar topic.
Thanks, yeah I've read that post; it is really useful..
But my question was: can I acheive a really good overclock with the 3500+ like people have acheived with their s754 processors?
Would the Dual DDR suffice for the missing 512kb L2 cache?
Are 939 boards better overclockers than the 754's?
 
939 is good for high bandwidth applications such as video encoding/streaming, scientific computation (folding). Do you need these?

As for CPU overclocking potential, motherboard overclocking potential, you may need to read some reviews, users feedback, or try it yourself.

BTW, as of today, from the poll
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=315646
almost half of the people voted waiting for 939 for some reasons. So waiting is a popular option.

About 15% of people voted would build and stay with 754 only. This means they will upgrade to 939 or ... later.
 
Well honestly, dont think Im gonna do much video encoding/streaming.. But Recording music and Photoshopping could be considered scientific computation so yeah if it performs better I want it.. Most important to me are the Doom3 \ Farcry benchies which right now for some odd reason favor the older 754's in some benchmarks I've seen.. I'll keep looking at the reviews and make my decision
 
Okay, I've looked at the benchmarks.. Right now theres something about the 754's architecture that makes it beat the 939's in almost all game benchmarks regardless of the Dual Channel DDR. and in video\music encoding, scientific benchs the difference is not at all that great..

So looks like I'm getting a 3400+ and gonna try and overclock it at 240x11 (2640Mhz).. That should be enough to make the system last more than a year or so and enjoy the latest games to the fullest :attn:
 
Since your emphasis is not in high memory bandwidth, you original question can be transformed into the difference between larger L2 size vs smaller L2 size, or CG ClawHammer vs NewCastle.

Indeed, larger L2 helps gaming by few %.

The remaining concern is 939 future compatibility, but you plan to upgrade down the road. To get larger L2 and 939, it would require a FX which is too much for price/performance at this point.


hitechjb1 said:
...
The performance difference between the two CPU's with 512 KB and 1 MB L2 can range between 0 to 10+% when both systems are clocked to the same frequencies, over a range of different types of applications such as CPU intensive (requiring big enough cache size), CPU intensive requiring small cache size (about 0% advantage), memory intensive, games, scientific (folding), .... The 3% to 5% usually quoted between the two is just a brief and average representation of the situation.

For gaming applications, the bigger L2 indeed provides few % (say 3-9%) performance advantage at same frequencies, as shown in the following links which show some details analysis and breakdown of various applications between the two.

The performance impact of cache size on various applications, benchmarks, processor performance, ... has been well studied in industry and academia, and there is no single number to describe all. It boils down to specific type of applications.

As a simple rule and trend, a few % overall performance advantage when L2 cache size is double. And such % becomes smaller as both cache size increases while keeping same ratio.

How to compare ClawHammer and NewCastle
 
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