is the R360 core that much better on 9800pro?

BrandonV · Aug 14, 2004

I picked up a 9800 pro the other day from Fry's and it is a 9800 pro w/ R350 and Hynix memory. I am in a position to trade this card for another with the R360 core. Is it really that much of a difference?

And what is the best memory that ATI put on these cards?

thx.

David · Aug 14, 2004

AFAIK having the R360 core means you have a better chance of being able to set it to 9800XT speeds.

HousERaT · Aug 14, 2004

also, if you have an xt pcb.... you can flash it to a "true" xt with the correct bios. I bought a 9800pro but for all intensive purposes I have an xt with all the goodies the xt gives.

johan851 · Aug 14, 2004

R360 cores overclock much better than R350's, as far as I know. If you can, get the R360.

Agent_Mull · Aug 14, 2004

Also the 360s have a built in Temp Sensor.

yzzuf · Aug 19, 2004

i have to chime in here. Ive had 4 9800 pros so far, 3 with 360 core and one with 350 core. Guess what..........the 350 core owns them all. This current 350 core im using is at 470 core 400 mem. This is just water cooled and ramm sinks on it. The 360 cores i had would go any higher than around 440 / 380.

johan851 · Aug 19, 2004

That's weird. Maybe you got a lucky R350? I can't get higher than 410/400.

=ACID RAIN= · Aug 19, 2004

johan851 said:
R360 cores overclock much better than R350's, as far as I know. If you can, get the R360.

Nope, generally the 350 overclocks higher. Not that much higher, but still higher. The only benefit of the 360 is that you can flash it to XT provided all other external circumstances fit the bill (PCB layout etc). I have a 9800np (350 of course) that overclocked to 450 core, and my pro -> XT only hits 430 core.

HousERaT · Aug 19, 2004

guess my 460MHz r360 core is a lucky one......

and let me point out that there are shaders in the r360 core that you don't have in the r350. That's why you can't flash a r350 to a pure xt..... and the temp probe is not in the r360 core, it's on the xt pcb. I know of people that have r360 cores on the pro pcb...... no temp probe.

yzzuf · Aug 19, 2004

=ACID RAIN= said:
Nope, generally the 350 overclocks higher. Not that much higher, but still higher. The only benefit of the 360 is that you can flash it to XT provided all other external circumstances fit the bill (PCB layout etc). I have a 9800np (350 of course) that overclocked to 450 core, and my pro -> XT only hits 430 core.

yep having owned 4 9800 pros, id go for the 350 core unless you get the 360 core with 256 ram that has the xt pcb ( xt in disguise).

felinusz · Aug 19, 2004

posted by johan851

R360 cores overclock much better than R350's, as far as I know. If you can, get the R360.

posted by =ACID RAIN=

Nope, generally the 350 overclocks higher. Not that much higher, but still higher.

Click to expand...

I'm a little bit confused. From what I've seen around here, R350 cored cards tend to clock up a bit higher then R360 cored cards, if the cards being compared were sold as 9800 Pro cards in the first place.

Yet "original" 256 megabyte 9800 XT cards with R360 cores tend to overclock better then their R350 cored 9800 Pro/NP counterparts.

Do you guys think that perhaps yields of R350 cores improved signifigantly enough over their production period (as does anything), to the extent that the most recently fabricated R350 cores overclock better then the newer, and only 'slightly better' R360s?

Or are the R360s used in 9800 Pro cards ones that failed to run stable XT speeds at the various temperatures and voltages required to pass quality control testing? Although a lot of people have gotten good results with their R360 cored card.

As for the RAM used in these cards, I'm pretty sure that the best RAM you can get in a 9800 Pro is either Samsung 8E-GCxx (2A), or the Hynix stuff. I haven't seen anyone clear 425 MHz on the memory clock with a 9800, although 400+ is pretty common with Samsung 8E-GCxx, and the right BIOS.

Keep in mind that hopw far your RAM and core will go is also partially luck of the draw. My RAM tops out at 414 MHz, with a voltage modification, while others with the same RAM and card as me have made it to 420+ without having to use a voltage modification.

HousERaT · Aug 19, 2004

actually selling 9800pros with xt cores is just a matter of cutting cost in production. has nothing to do with the potential of the core..... my core is a r360 and it runs at 460 right now and I've had it up to 470 with no problems..... This idea of r350 cores running faster than r360 isn't very convincing..... and if the r360 is running in the environment it's supposed to (xt) I can't imagine for an instant that the r350 will out perform it.

Jhatfie · Aug 19, 2004

My last Sapphire 9800 Pro had a R350 core and my new one is a R360. Both Overclock almost identical with the R350 topping out at around 470 and the R360 at 480. Clock for clock the R360 is a little faster if flashed to an XT(mostly just in benchmarks though).

felinusz · Aug 19, 2004

I totally agree with you in that it's clear that R360s are being used in 9800 Pro cards to cut on costs - it's almost certainly cheaper for manufacturers to buy a bulk amount of R360s, then it is to buy a smaller quantity of R360s, *and* R350s. I also suspect that being able to shut down R350 fabrication saves some hefty costs in maintaining the facilities/equiptment/whatever else is involved - so ATi probably offers bulk deals on newer cores to promote migration away from older stuff.

posted by HousERat

has nothing to do with the potential of the core

I disagree with that. Manufacturers are known to put their products through testing, and in the past it hasn't been uncommon for 'failed' parts to be sold as something that's simply clocked slower - it's all about yields, and (from the manufacturers perspective) getting the most money for the parts you payed for.

Since this 'downgrade and sell' practice has been a trend with CPUs for years, whats to prevent video card manufacturers from doing the same thing? Some percentage of each batch of R360 cores is a bad yield, but manufaturers still want to be able to make money off of them.

posted by felinusz

Or are the R360s used in 9800 Pro cards ones that failed to run stable XT speeds at the various temperatures and voltages required to pass quality control testing? Although a lot of people have gotten good results with their R360 cored card.

posted by HousERat

my core is a r360 and it runs at 460 right now and I've had it up to 470 with no problems.....

I never said that an R360 cored card would be a bad overclocker, or even that good results are unachieveable, you aren't the only person to get some superb results from an R360 cored card. I'm only making educated guesses here, nobody knows whats actually going on

HousERaT · Aug 19, 2004

felinusz said:
I never said that an R360 cored card would be a bad overclocker, or even that good results are unachieveable, you aren't the only person to get some superb results from an R360 cored card. I'm only making educated guesses here, nobody knows whats actually going on

No offense, I wasn't speaking to you directly as I did not quote you, but to piggyback on your idea about bad r360s being downgraded to 9800pro cards..... I just haven't seen nearly enough evidence to support such an idea "in this case." Could it happen? Sure it could. Does it happen? Maybe..... but I've seen way too many success stories with flashed pro's to xt's to believe that we're getting the worst of the bunch. Like you said, I really believe it's luck of the draw as I've seen cards of all shapes and sizes overclock well and others overclock poorly..... you very well could be on to something though. Personally, I want to see more evidence before I begin to consider that a poor overclocking r360 core on a 9800pro is an xt reject. I certainly don't want to put that in the mind of potential buyers. What do we say in the case of the person who buys an xt and it overclocks poorly? "They must have missed that one at the factory, that core should have been made into a pro?" I'm thinking that would introduce more confusion into the equation...... especially for a newbie.

is the R360 core that much better on 9800pro?

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