Ultimate Low Cost Thread to the A64 OC Path

First of all excuse my bad english

My Intention is to build a low cost 754 system. I have two sticks of standard 1gb ddr266 (cl2.5) and i hoped to move it over to the new a64system. I read somewhere here in a thread that there is not alot of a disadvantage in terms of performance when using crap memory against high quality DDR-Ram. As you are likely to loose 1:1 the more you go up with fsb speeds it doesent matter that all. I don't want to run out and spend 250-300$ at some High Performance DDR500 sticks because this money is needed for a nvidia 6800gt or similar new gen gpu for the new rig.

So this is what i want to achieve (don't know for sure by now if its possible):
Oc a 2800+-3200+ with air to somewhere between 2.4 and 2.5 ghz, using some horrible Divider on the mem which would be DDR266. Is this possible?

I gathered alot of Information here and at several other places and i am just now considering the following options.

Mobo Decision:
MSI K8N Neo Platinum - found in alot of oc-sigs. Some bad reviews regarding bios problems, some functions like QnQ lost
Chaintech VNF3-250 - also found alot in succesful sigs and over at overclockers.com database but a bit expensive more exp over here
Epox EP-8KDA3J - seems to be capable of higher fsb speeds. Similar to ist bigger brother 8KDA3+ minus the sata (which is perfectly ok for me because i don't own sata drives and would like to stay with my ides for a few months

CPU Decision:
When it comes for choosing Newcastle or Clawhammer i found the Newcastle giving for Bang for the bucks. While studying the Benchmarks i think that only Software routines not fitting right into 512kb cache but fitting into the 1024kb range would be faster on the CH. Also the Newcastles (CGs) do seem to be more overclockable as there could be issues with the larger cache when driving the cpu towards 2.5 and beyond.

So while the Decision seems to be a Newcastle CG and the 2800,3000 and 3200 with 512 cache do seem to have comparable results i come to the conclusion that i must consider future bus speeds possible with the 266ddr because of the max multiplier on the cpus:
2800+:9
3000+:10
3200+:11

Certainly 3200+ gives you more headroom with a max 11 multiplier to oc when you got lower fsbs but is it worth the extra money? Need some advice on this matter. I assume if i have fsbs <220 to go with the greatest multiplier 11x. If near the range of 250 to go with the 10x. If you could punch out some decent fsbs over 265 go with the 9x multiplier of the 2800+. Wrong or right?

Cooling:
I'll go the traditional aircooling way choosing between an all Copper Zalman 9000 or the Thermalright978.

If its possible to use the ddr266 at fsbs > 225 you would get some decent performance and could stick with your old ram assuming you didnt went out and payed for some highquality ddr like Corsair or Ocz. And anyway what does an expensive DDR500 or 550 stick do to a Athlon64 performancewise? I remember some kind of gamebenchmark with not so much benefits for hq low latency ram on the Athlon64. Sure Membenchmarks would be lousy, but when it comes to 3d Gaming could one stick with its crap 266mem?

If so you could upgrade to a very great price ratio to the A64. And this would fit into this threads topic.

If not possible to do some oc with this setup, what is the minimum ram to get decent performance and higher fsbs. Do i need to buy some XMS mem or similar or could i get a crap cl2.5 ddr400 ram and be done with it?

I don't really see that much of a diff in ram speeds on my A64. I've ran it anywhere from 150MHz-200MHz and haven't see anything (real worl) that would make want it to run faster. I can't run 1:1 since my ram is cheap, but I still get good performance. I'm thinking about investing in a good 1gb stick of ram and seeing what if any good that does.

Thats exactly what i heard from ppl trying different mems on a a64 system. Of course there are differences in Memory Benchmarks but in terms of a real world performance the differences are not very heavy.

I mean we are talking about the Socket754. Whats driving people to invest their hard earned cash into a system that is soon to be replaced by cheap 939 stuff with dual channel ram and 90mm cpus? Its the price. Why should i then go out and buy high tech PC4500 or even higher for a socket 754 sys that is lacking dual channel features and that is soon to be relabeled as the entry socket for AMD? I'd like to jump to the wagon now and get a decent performance from the system until the next big thing hits the market (and i don't mean xp64 :=) )

So you have ddr400 - don't call it crap My ram is crappier as its low profile DDR 266 that goes up to 150mhz, maybe more with a bit of a tweaking.

What divider do you use to get 150 mhz on your board?

No problem get a combo with farcry game, A64 2800 and Epox EP-8KDA3J for only $222 from Mwave.com. Set HTT to 265+ mem to 100 which gives you about DDR 266 which you have. Now your chip is a 2412mhz.

Memory speeds make little difference with A64 because of on-die controller.

@BeerHunter:

Thx alot for that link and advice.

One more question. Is it better to get the 2800+ or the 3000+? I realize they are both the same but the 3k has a higher multi of 10. Is it worth to consider the higher multiplier? Or are nforce boards likely achieving 265 fsb/htt and more?

well from what i have seen lately, the 2800+ is realy rocking in OC wise, and considering its cheaper then the 3000+, it might be a better choice. but make sure that you get one that has the code number ending in AX, it is the best OCer

the only reason i am going with a 3000+ is that it has a higher Multiplier, so if you need that, its only 25bucks more at newegg.

So your call on what you realy need!

Most people down thier multiplier to 9 even on 3200 and 3000's to overclock which the 2800 already has.

They are all the same chip to us overclockers. Why not buy the cheaper one? Just because AMD decides to put 3000 or 3200 on the chip won't help you.

Edit: it appears Mwave.com is no longer running the free farcry promotion AND the combo price went up by $10.

Maybe look around for a place to get promotion and better deal. Either way the epox will hit 265 without breaking a sweat... it's 290+ when things start becoming a problem in my experiance.

sargelarge said:

Why should i then go out and buy high tech PC4500 or even higher for a socket 754 sys that is lacking dual channel features and that is soon to be relabeled as the entry socket for AMD?

Click to expand...

Dual channel isnt a technology of the ram. The memory controller(on the cpu in this case) puts each stick of ram on a sepperate controller. So, its twice as fast. I have had the same buffalo pc3200 since summer of 03. It ran dual channel in my XP system, and now runs single channel in my A64 system.

Btw AMD recomends using pc3200 for A64's, you certainly dont need pc4500.

I've been able to push my HTT well past 340 on my VNF3-250. That was with the 5:6 memory divider. However, my systems does not like the 2:3 memory divider nearly as well.

I have a 3000+ and a 3200+ and I personally think that the 2800+ or 3000+ are by far the best bang for the buck. Higher multi's of the 3200+ are nice becasue they allow flexability in case you need to work around ram or motherboard constraints when overclcoking. I've been pretty lucky and have compliant hardware, so I typically use the 9x or 10x multi.

Most of the A64's like the 2800+ and 3000+ are overclcoking about the same lately. 2.4-2.5ghz should be fairly easy to achieve with decent air cooling.