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Old 09-12-04, 09:26 PM Thread Starter   #1
Mikes95XLT
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Car question for you guys...


Hi guys... I'm not sure this is the right place to post this, but here goes:

My girlfriend just got new brakes on her SUV. A friend did it for her that's a mechanic. I drove her truck today to see how they work, and did a panic stop from 40mph, and the truck didn't respond really at all. It was like I was just slowing down. Really shocked me. When I try a panic stop in my Explorer I can get the tires to howl like mad. Her tires didn't do anything.

Now, I checked with the kid who did them, and asked him what's up. He said that new brake pads would take about 500 - 1000 miles to wear in and burn the protective coating off, so after that time frame she'll be able to make a good panic stop. Now, I've never heard of this and neither has my dad. Have you guys ever heard of anything like this?? I also tried bleeding the brake lines but wasn't sure I was doing it right cause no fluid came out or anything.

I told her to go get a second opinion from like Meinike or something just to see what they say.

Can you guys give me any insight on this?? Thanks a lot...
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Old 09-12-04, 09:38 PM   #2
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I think I'd get someone else to do this cause my mechanic once changed my brakes in the rain and said if I couldn't do a panic stop (which he said I should always be able to) to go back so he can tighten something. I'd get a second opinion.
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Old 09-12-04, 09:42 PM   #3
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What he was trying to explain was that the pads are still "Green" but that is NO reason for the pads not to work properly during panic stop tests. You will want to bring the SUV in to a more reputable garage or service center to have the problem checked out.

Generaly doing hard braking is bad for any pad material when they are still new(green) & can cause damage to the material in the long run when repeated hard use before the pad is broken in although most street legal pad material are required to work in panic situations even if they are new or cold.

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Old 09-12-04, 09:49 PM Thread Starter   #4
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So how long does it take for a "green" pad to wear in properly??

It's really weird cause this kid works for a BMW dealer and is certified and everything...
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Old 09-12-04, 10:03 PM   #5
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thats not true at all, the minute your done they should lock up. if they have anti locks then youll activate them.
there is no break in period like that.
there is a break in procedure that should be done to help stop what is thought to be rotor warping. but nothing like a break in period and they grab better, the difference would be only measurable in a test facility where the rotor is not allowed to stop.


this will help you a lot


http://www.stoptech.com/technical/
how do they feel? mushy? how far can you push the pedal down?

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Old 09-12-04, 10:20 PM Thread Starter   #6
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Yea the pedal is very mushy, and I can hit the floor if I wanted to with both feet. That's the panic stop I tried. I just jammed the brakes to see how well they'd stop her. But I didn't get much response at all. It's like the harder I push, the more mush I feel.
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Old 09-12-04, 10:25 PM   #7
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they need to be rebled, that page will tell you how, learn how to mate the pads to the rotors also from there, its under warped rotor theory/prevention.
just because someone works at a car dealership doesnt mean anything, i aksed a mechanic once what type of thread lock he used on the manifold bolts he was installing and he showed me silicone stuff, in other words he didnt even know what thread lock was.
i wont bring my truck or car to a dealer ever.

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Old 09-12-04, 10:43 PM   #8
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Panic Stop?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes95XLT
Hi guys... I'm not sure this is the right place to post this, but here goes:

My girlfriend just got new brakes on her SUV. A friend did it for her that's a mechanic. I drove her truck today to see how they work, and did a panic stop from 40mph, and the truck didn't respond really at all. It was like I was just slowing down. Really shocked me. When I try a panic stop in my Explorer I can get the tires to howl like mad. Her tires didn't do anything.

Now, I checked with the kid who did them, and asked him what's up. He said that new brake pads would take about 500 - 1000 miles to wear in and burn the protective coating off, so after that time frame she'll be able to make a good panic stop. Now, I've never heard of this and neither has my dad. Have you guys ever heard of anything like this?? I also tried bleeding the brake lines but wasn't sure I was doing it right cause no fluid came out or anything.

I told her to go get a second opinion from like Meinike or something just to see what they say.

Can you guys give me any insight on this?? Thanks a lot...
I dont know what year antilock brakes kicked in, but you will have a hard time getting them to lock enough for the tires to slide on late model vehicles. The theory is that if the wheels are locked up, you are out of control. I have an 01 Z71 truck, and any time the system thinks the wheels are locking and the vehicle is in motion, the pedal gives way and kind of pumps on its own. Given the speed you were going, did the vehicle stop in what would be considered a normal distance?
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Old 09-12-04, 10:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino56
they need to be rebled, that page will tell you how, learn how to mate the pads to the rotors also from there, its under warped rotor theory/prevention.
just because someone works at a car dealership doesnt mean anything, i aksed a mechanic once what type of thread lock he used on the manifold bolts he was installing and he showed me silicone stuff, in other words he didnt even know what thread lock was.
i wont bring my truck or car to a dealer ever.
You mean the bolts for the caliper??? I just upgraded from drum to discs on my bug. My kit came with a lock washer. As many times as I removed the caliper (due to a factory inconsistency on the rotor) i'm glad i didn't use locktite on em heh.
As for the mushy thing that just sounds like you need to bleed them. Bleeding is an attempt to remove air and what not from the fluid. You can get a one man bleeder kit from somewhere like autozone for $5 or so. Hook the tube to the back of the caliper (bleeder valve) and then get someone to push down the brake pedal periodically. Keep checking for air (in the tube) and when you have a steady span of fluid air and waste free move on to the other caliper and repeat. While doing this the brake pedal should get tighter and tighter. Brake fluid is reuseable if your worried about wasting a lot. Better safe than sorry though so don't stop as soon as you see it steady. Its sorta like the force... you'll just know when its good. New brakes should feel very stiff at first. Then slowly wear in to maybe like pushing the pedal 1/3-1/2 down. (Mine did anyway).
Also since your going to have the wheel off and what not be sure to check wheel bearings and the distance between the rotor and the caliper. The rotor should be on the center line of the caliper. (those aren't related to your problem but would be good to check anyway).
Whatever you do don't get curious and take the caliper off and press the brakes down.
Have fun
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Old 09-12-04, 10:54 PM   #10
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thats definitely not right, i just got the pads on my Jeep replaced and i can panic stop quite well, boo for rain
and im sure you aren't supposed to be able to hit the floor with your pedal, i have never done that in any car....
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Old 09-12-04, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes95XLT
He said that new brake pads would take about 500 - 1000 miles to wear in and burn the protective coating off, so after that time frame she'll be able to make a good panic stop.
That is a load of crap. At the very least don't ever let your friend touch anyone else's car.(Kid + other people's car = world of trouble) This doesn't have anything to do with ABS. Even with ABS the car will stop HARD. Take the car to a mechanic, don't even waste your time on the internet anymore, your girlfriend is using a sponge to stop her car.
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Old 09-12-04, 11:46 PM   #12
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Just like tom10167 said, you need to get that car off the road. It SHOULD stop quickly and leave tire marks during a panic stop, ABS or not, new brakes or not. With ABS the tire marks will just be "pulsed". Anyways, sounds to me like when he bled the brakes he got air into the lines, a COMPLETE NO NO with ABS. When doing ANYTHING with an ABS system, you should never let air get into the system, IE keep the resevoir topped off with fluid. If you get air into the ABS pump it's a pain in the ass to bleed and you need to be able to interface with the car's OBDII interface and cycle the car's brakes with a handheld OBDII scanner or the like to be able to get that air out and make them work again. Until you do that or can have it done, GET THAT CAR OFF THE ROAD AS IT IS DANGEROUS.

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Old 09-13-04, 01:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
thats definitely not right, i just got the pads on my Jeep replaced and i can panic stop quite well, boo for rain
and im sure you aren't supposed to be able to hit the floor with your pedal, i have never done that in any car....
I can vouch for his brakes panic stop, because if he didnt have them he would have run me over on friday,
but that isnt good of your girlfriends brakes its not safe at all
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Old 09-13-04, 08:39 AM   #14
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Some brake pad manufacturers such as Bendix have a break in period, but even before the break in period, the vehicle should be able to stop very quickly. Wagner doesn't have the break in period because the pads are cured at the factory. If the only thing that was replaced was the brake pads, no air should have gotten into the system, hence there is no need to bleed them. The only time you need to bleed brakes is if you replace a hydraulic component such as a brake caliper, master cylinder, etc. When you did the panic stop, did the vehicle shudder a lot? If it shuddered a lot but didn't leave skid marks and screeching noise, then everything is fine. ABS is not a federal requirement. There are still some vehicles manufactured today without it. You may want to consider removing the brake rotor and having it turned down. Sometimes with age and use, they get so hot that they become glazed and then the pads won't grab them properly anymore. Did the person that changed the brakes show you the old pads? If possible, look at the old pads. There are different types of wear patterns that indicate different things. Examining the old pads is useful in diagnosing a problem. If you are unsure about any of this, take it to a different shop with ASE Certified mechanics. The ASE Certificaton should be on the mechanic's shirt or prominently displayed in the shop. It's a light blue round symbol with the edges cut out like coarse fringe, similar to the Red Hot Chili Pepper's singer's tattoo. Think of it like going to the doctor for a second opinion.

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Old 09-13-04, 12:36 PM   #15
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Cheap pads sometimes require you to heat them up a few times before they are as effective as they should be. I have seen this twice with a certain brand of pads. The pads on my Harley were also this way. After you put them on, you have to cinch down on them hard a few times before they bite. Once they have been heated up a few times, they grab like mad. Not sure what is happening when you heat cycle them like that, but its a one time thing. Do it right after install, and the brakes work fine from then on.

I do agree that if the pedal is mushy like youre saying something is NOT right. Like some have mentioned, sounds like they need to be bled.

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Old 09-13-04, 01:45 PM   #16
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It could be that he was a little slow and used ceramic pads as opposed to the organic ones that most of us use. The ceramic are just plain crappy unless you break a lot and warm those up.

Either way, he didn't know what he was doing because you shouldn't have to slam on it and nothing really happen new or not.
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Old 09-13-04, 01:53 PM   #17
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When either my dad or I replace break pads we take them out right after and give them the good old testing. We make sure they stop the car and are reponsive. We make the cars stop doing a good 55 quickly.

If its not stopping quickly or even makeing an attempt to leave some rubber get another mechanic ASAP or go back and tell them you want these fixed now or you'll report them. Either way no matter new, old, wet, dry, hot, cold, or in any combination that you can think, breaks are ment to stop no matter what reguardless of anything!

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Old 09-13-04, 05:27 PM   #18
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its partly crap

your sposed to "bed" the breaks

where as the contors of the pad will match the contors of the rotor

basicly take your car from 80-like 10 ( do completely stop ) for or 5 times

youll see smoke and stuff come out of your wheel wells and it will smell like ass

then you drive around for about 30 min allowing them to cool of with out warping

vola your done

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Old 09-13-04, 05:39 PM   #19
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take it to a mechanic, and not a road side, either, I would take it to some one reputable, like a very well kept gas station, and make them right out the prob and then post it so you know your getting ripped off, don't let him do anything but brakes, you don't want to get ripped off. Either way, if you have a $1000 or $500 deductable, and you have an accident, it'll be cheaper just to get new brakes.

Have fun!
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Old 09-13-04, 06:12 PM   #20
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not to be offensive to anyone here but one thing i do know about is braking systems and im seeing a lot of misinformation posted.
now ive posted a link to a sight that contains great information.
James Walker is one of the best in the braking business, ive talked to him before and i dont think ive ever run across anyone who knows more about brakes.

James Walker is the Vehicle Performance Development Manager for brake control systems at Delphi Energy and Chassis Systems.

i not trying to prove anyone wrong or flame anyone and im not mentioning any posts imparticular but brakes are something peoples lives depend on. when they arent working right it can be very dangerous.

read the link i posted, it contains more than you probably want to know about braking systems. if you want to know more about them just ask me.
i can provide you with several great websights and also have 1000's of pages of information on them saved. not just text book but also very in depth conversations ive saved from several braking experts. not midas employees experts but people who design the systems that are in all of our cars and for racing.
i know everyone is just trying to help which is nice thats for sure.

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