[Cathar]

The left one or the right one?

[- W.C Pohna -]

Is this a trick question? The left one of course

[nikhsub1]

Hmm, knowing this is a trick question, it is hard to answer without using my special flatness scope. Since I know the Storm is on the right, and guaranteed flat to .00005" (or was that .0005"?) I would say the Storm on the right. The shiney block on the left looks, well very shiney, but the reflection looks wavy to me, or is that my eyes getting older? It could be flat AND shiney, but my answer if firmly the block on the right, and I'm sticking to it.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Since I know the Storm is on the right, and guaranteed flat to .00005" (or was that .0005"?) I would say the Storm on the right.

The block base on the right is not a Storm base-plate, and it is not a machine lapped guaranteed flat base-plate. It's an old plate I had kicking around. That plate was lapped by hand.

[- W.C Pohna -]

nikhsub1, have you got a 3D monitor or something because even with a CRT rounder than I am. I dont see a "curvy" reflection

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by Cathar

The block base on the right is not a Storm base-plate, and it is not a machine lapped base-plate. It's an old plate I had kicking around. That plate was lapped by hand.

I'm still taking the one on the right, looks flat to me.

[- W.C Pohna -]

I will admit though, the left one has rougher surface around the edges which would mean uneven finish, even so, it would probably allow for the perfect amount of room for some AS5

[Sean Lindstrom]

Yum yummy, the left one! It's so shiney I want it without question.

Satisfied?

[lazua]

Was the one on the left done by hand or machine? Obviously I would rather have it either way.

[Cathar]

Left One

Right One

[jackrungh]

If course, the right one. Though it is obvious what you are doing Cathar.

Lets all learns a lesson and revamp our assumptions about what reality holds for us. The pretty blocks can be the devil in disguise. Also, you can lap with the best of them.

[Rutkus]

right

[Wicked Klown]

See this is why Cathar is the best waterblock maker in the world. I so hope I can get a Storm block, seeing as I had to settle for a D-Tek WW.

[thorilan]

look at the wood grain seam on the left block and notice the wavy line

honestly any block that shiny btw most likely used brasso or some other polishing agent that left residue .

it may not be the case here but its possible

[Sean Lindstrom]

Wow. The shiney plate's worse than the saggy plank floor I sanded today.

What are we looking at? It appears to be mosquito netting.

[lazua]

That was great.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Sean Lindstrom

What are we looking at? It appears to be mosquito netting.

Yes - it's actually good for something other than keeping mosquitos out.

Really this is a poor-man's flatness test. The hand-lapped plate on the right is actually not really flat either (it's certainly MUCH better than the block on the left though), it's just that this poor-man's flatness test is unable to show its deficiencies very clearly. It all depends on how far one wants to go in the definition of flatness.

The whole point of this exercise was, of course, to point out the difference between reflectiveness and flatness in a relevant way.

Heck, if waterblock review sites included a test even as simple as this, they would be giving people infinitely more useful information than they do now, which is to show some nice shiny reflective bases and comment on how great they are with absolutely no understanding of the vast difference between the concepts of flatness and reflectivity.

Really, it has to stop now. It has gotten out of hand. It's gotten to the point where anything that is shiny and reflective is perceived as great, yet anything that is non-reflective is perceived as crap, with absolutely no justification or intelligence behind the comments other than, "Ooh - shiny! It MUST be good!"

[jackrungh]

Then I have a question for you cathar. How has your own research into the famed precision of Swiftech blocks associated with the common review-item-in-mirror-like-finish positive test. In other words, are you less confident of their machining processes than the WC reviewer pundits or is Swiftech deserving?

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by jackrungh

Then I have a question for you cathar. How has your own research into the famed precision of Swiftech blocks associated with the common review-item-in-mirror-like-finish positive test. In other words, are you less confident of their machining processes than the WC reviewer pundits or is Swiftech deserving?

Be careful not to read too much into my discourse here.

All I'm trying to do is to effectively explain with visual examples how there is no correlation between reflectivity and flatness.

i.e. one cannot show a picture of a highly reflective base-plate, like most web-sites do, and then make any assumption as to its flatness and hence its suitability to make good thermal contact against a CPU.

[vonkaar]

Showing pictures of the baseplate used to be a lot more useful... back when you wanted to know if the manufacturer spent ANY time on lapping it. These days, it's assumed that the base will 'look' shiny so the pictures don't help us. Regardless, expect to see those pictures for years to come =/.

That's a pretty clever flatness test =p.

[threeputt]

The RIGHT one! Oh, I'm too late...

Hmm... Cathar, is the block on the left the first NexXxos block you had?

[situman]

Had me scared there. Thought u were changing the design at the very last minute.

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by threeputt

Hmm... Cathar, is the block on the left the first NexXxos block you had?

No. The NexXxoS HP blocks have the large plastic top that you easily be able to see if it were.

[threeputt]

Originally Posted by Cathar

No. The NexXxoS HP blocks have the large plastic top that you easily be able to see if it were.

Oh, do you want to hint us on who's block that is? Unless you somehow lapped the bottom wavy for this quiz?

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by threeputt

Oh, do you want to hint us on who's block that is? Unless you somehow lapped the bottom wavy for this quiz?

No hints. I did not "create" the finish on the block. The block is utterly untouched and is just as it came from the original manufacturer. I just found it to be particularly useful for the demonstration.

[threeputt]

Well, I tried guys.... just use the mosquito net for your next block purchase and be wary of square reflective block

[Graystar]

So...which one performed better?

[I.M.O.G.]

Haven't read all the posts yet, but granted the limited flat picture I have to judge from... I would rather have the block on the right.

Looking at the grain, it would appear as though that block was lapped in a more straight forward lift repeat motion - while the shiny block was likely lapped in a circular motion and I'm guessing from another perspective that you would see its slightly convex, and impossible to get to sit nice and flat on a CPU die.

The block on the right may need more lapping, its hard to tell... But from what I can tell, I would bet the right block is flatter from the way it has been lapped so far, and would just need finer sanding if those imperfections are considerable enough... I would not want to go through the trouble of getting the block on the left from convex to flat though, bleh.

EDIT: That skeeter netting really makes it clear... Think we can get Joe to start using a skeeter netting test on the blocks/heatsinks he receives?

[Senater_Cache]

Then I have a question for you cathar. How has your own research into the famed precision of Swiftech blocks associated with the common review-item-in-mirror-like-finish positive test. In other words, are you less confident of their machining processes than the WC reviewer pundits or is Swiftech deserving?

Cathar never said that a polished baseplate cannot be shiny and flat as well (such is the case in swiftys products)
He is merely making people aware of the fact that the issue of flatness should be tested/considered before the issue of shinyness and reflecyivity.

[HiProfile]

Originally Posted by Cathar

Really, it has to stop now. It has gotten out of hand. It's gotten to the point where anything that is shiny and reflective is perceived as great, yet anything that is non-reflective is perceived as crap, with absolutely no justification or intelligence behind the comments other than, "Ooh - shiny! It MUST be good!"

Hold on there, buddy, calm down. Just remember that half the people you meet are under average intellegence (obviously not the case @ocforums :P) and you'll understand your anger more.

I know that if its cheap to do en mass with machine lapping [and no forseable problems it can cause), why not go for the extra performance boost. But I don't think its of much issue (unless you're getting loads of PM's asking for Storm to be polished) to try convincing the world that polished doesn't always mean flat. AFAIK a fairly good handlap job is less than a few *C compaired to a perfectly flat base - the difference between a great pump and a 'normal' pump. But don't quote me on that, it was said to convey a point...


Also, I think Greystar has a point in asking "So...which one performed better?"...Cathar, you're the one always saying the final OC counts, not conjecture!