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Swiftech Radbox Sufficient for Powerful System?

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Old 11-07-04, 08:45 AM Thread Starter   #1
deception``
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Swiftech Radbox Sufficient for Powerful System?


http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCB-120.asp#

Once again, I am trying to decide on whether nor not I can watercooling using my current case without mods. I just happened to come across this Radbox while taking a look at the MCP650 pump. I have a couple of questions.

1. Is this a bad idea?

2. Does it restrict airflow more/less than an inhouse solution?

3. Can this be used with any single-rad solution, or only that Swiftech radiator (which I am not too crazy about)

At the moment, I'd like to use the following components after extensive research:


1. MCW 6002A - It appears to be a better block than the TDX, and inferior to perhaps the G4 series. I had my eye on a D-Tek WW as well, but I am not sure which of the two would prevail.

2. I have recieved a lot of recommendations on the MCP 650 pump over favorites such as an Eheim or Hydor L30. It is also my assumption that this would be quieter than the DD D4 12v. How does this compare against a Danner Mag 3, or should I stick with the Swiftech due to Danner's availability?

3. I'd like the cool the GPU, too. Would a DD Maze4 or MCW50 work best here?

4. The rad is the only thing that I am a bit foggy about. In an earlier thread I expressed interest in perhaps a Black Ice rad, but I am aware of a slew of other alternatives, such as a Pro Core and a Heatercore. I do, however, plan to use 1/2" fittings, though.

5. I'd like somethig neat, yet functional in a resivoir. Furthermore, I am very big on the overall aesthetics of my case. Perhaps a bayres would serve me best here?

If I recieve an overwhelming number of recommendations toward the entire Swiftech series then I will simply buy the base kit and make necessary substituitions. However, I do not have a problem with purchasing all of my parts individually. I am not looking to spend too much on water (as my aircooling does a great job in keeping my cpu @ 34 idle now), but If I do make the jump then I need to do it right. Besides, I will probably run on the K7 system for a couple of months only to upgrade to an A64 solution. Thanks again for all of your help.


deception``

Last edited by deception``; 11-07-04 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 11-07-04, 12:59 PM   #2
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What case are you trying to put this system in? depending on the case there might be another way to do it.
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Old 11-07-04, 01:05 PM   #3
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The single rad box is probably insufficient for much overclocking. That's why you don't see many systems with a single 120mm radiator. The MCW6002, TDX and WW are all about the same, less than 1C difference between them. They all get killed by the Storm block though. The MCP650 is about the best pump you can buy short of a Blueline/Panworld or an Iwaki. It is quieter than Danger Den's D4. Either GPU block is fine, but you should consider a Silverprop Fusion HL simply because it's solid copper. No aluminum like the DD or Swiftech GPU blocks (yes I know they're annodized but you'll still get corrosion over time without enough antifreeze).

I'd get either 2 120mm radiators or 1 double heatercore. Black Ice radiators are way the hell overpriced. It's cheapest if you get one from Autozone or the like. Check out the 86 Chevette and the 77 Bonneville. The MCW6002 is the way to go, but do consider that Socket A blocks are not compatible with A64 systems. You might be able to buy an A64 mounting clip though and just switch that. And for best performance, don't get a reservoir. It hurts your flow rates and consequently your temps.

I'd wouldn't get the entire Swiftech line if I were you. It's a bit expensive for what you get. You could definitely do it for less.
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Old 11-07-04, 01:37 PM Thread Starter   #4
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My current case is a Coolermaster ATC 201B SXT. I'd go down the specs again, but I had already inquired about my case in a much earlier thread and fear the risk of being redundant to other forum readers. The Radbox appealed to me as I would be able to successfully watercool my system w/o modification or the purchase of an alternative that would most likely suffer in its aesthetics.

I am well aware that the Socket A block would be incompatible with K8 systems. Nonetheless, I am still interested in cooling my Socket A simply so I can get the hang of watercooling before I migrate to most likely a Winchester/NF4 combo. Furthermore, I have seen many mixed results concerning rad suggestions. Obviously dual rad is preferred in some case, but others have said that a decent rad such as a Pro Core and a high speed 120mm (Sanyo Denki) should cool as well as a dual-rad solution, especially when the Radbox comes into play (allowing me to draw air directly from the outside of my case).

The GPU block is not of the greatest concern. It is most important that I cool my cpu's to a reasonable (hopefully lower) temp than they are now. I don't mind putting together a more standard setup intially, only to upgrade to the GPU at a later time. At the moment, I was leaning toward:

MCP6002A
MCP650
D-Tek Black Pro Core with 120mm shroud
Sanyo Denki 120mm Fan
Swiftech Radbox
MCW50
2 oz Hyrdrix/Zerex
5 ft? 1/2" Tubings
Hose Clamps

Would a T-Line be more difficult to use versus a bayres? I don't mind using one, but I a) don't know very much about them and b) would like to maintain the current aesthetics of my setup. Thanks again.

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Old 11-07-04, 02:38 PM   #5
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deception - ive got a pretty similar water cooling setup that you are thinking about....

i went with the dd maze4 gpu block and the maze4 chipset block but i have the swiftech 6002 cpu block...

i have the same heater core/shroud and i used about 12' of tubing (antec sonata)...

i have 1 120 intake fan and i mounted a fan in the exhaust position then the radbox then the heatercore then the shroud and then another fan.....without the normal case exhaust fan the case temps were rocketing into the mid to high 40's which is crazy for case temps......now that i have the exhaust fan there the case temps are back to normal...

im switching fans soon as well - my heatcore fan is a panaflo low but im switching to a medium and im putting 2 panaflo low's inside the case as intake/exhaust - should do the trick...
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Old 11-07-04, 04:55 PM Thread Starter   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic-k20
deception - ive got a pretty similar water cooling setup that you are thinking about....

i went with the dd maze4 gpu block and the maze4 chipset block but i have the swiftech 6002 cpu block...

i have the same heater core/shroud and i used about 12' of tubing (antec sonata)...

i have 1 120 intake fan and i mounted a fan in the exhaust position then the radbox then the heatercore then the shroud and then another fan.....without the normal case exhaust fan the case temps were rocketing into the mid to high 40's which is crazy for case temps......now that i have the exhaust fan there the case temps are back to normal...

im switching fans soon as well - my heatcore fan is a panaflo low but im switching to a medium and im putting 2 panaflo low's inside the case as intake/exhaust - should do the trick...

If I were to choose the Radbox route, I still have two front intake fans as well as a top exhaust fan to successfully move air in and out of my case. My question to you is: did a single-rad solution adequately cool your system?

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Old 11-07-04, 05:36 PM   #7
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im getting temps of 35-39 idle and 47 full load - BUT - i was snooping around inside the case and discovered that one of the lines is beginning to kink and cut off flow so once i fix that i expect the numbers to come down even further

btw those temps were cooling a 3500+ cpu @ 2.5ghz w/ 1.7v (for testing) - a gpu running 520/560 (xtpe speeds) and the k8n neo2 nforce chip - and the ram was running 2.85vdim at that time....

my cpu will not hit 2.7 - just not going to happen (many cmos resets later i have come to terms with it) my goal is to get to 2.6 neighbourhood

EDIT:

now that the kink has been worked out my idle temp is 35 and load temp is still 47 - i am curious to see what the temps will be when i switch the fans around - currently using panaflo low on the heatercore but i have a panaflo medium on the way....and i will use the 2 panaflow low's as case fans

Last edited by arctic-k20; 11-08-04 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 11-07-04, 11:54 PM   #8
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ok, here is my opinion on watercooling, its best to buy all the parts and build it yourself. no offense to the 'kits' but you just wont get the performance out of a home-made WC setup.

with my current setup, which I have used on 2 differnet platforms, Intel and AMD, in which case both CPU's where overclocked to the MAX. on my Intel setup, which was a 3.0E oc'd to 3.75, I was getting temps in from the mid to high 30's in idle, and mid 40's on full load. Mind you that is on a Prescott.

Now, on my AMD setup, which is a 3000+ oc'd to 2.6, even at 2.7, I never hit temps over 45c on full load, which I used prime95 to test it.

Now, weather a single heatercore is sufficant enough to cool a CPU and GPU, well that all depends on who you talk to. You can pick up a dual 120mm heatercore for sub $20. Which is a double pass and cools very well, Mine is using 2 120mm fans, that arent highspeed or anything special, my setup is also external, so I dont have to worry about a pump or more fans generating more heat then I need. Ehiem 1250 pump I have is massive, push's alot of water and gets the job done.

I know I dont have a super video card, but I can tell you that my card never goes above 40c, the highest I have seen it is 38c, Im using a Maze4 GPU, with a DD TDX.

Im current going to experiment with a new tubing idea I have been having, which in theory should work perfect.

In my opinion, I would say take a look at DD and put a kit together yourself, for instance if you change from AMD to Intel, you dont need to buy a new waterblock, just buy a lucite top for $11 for a Intel socket. That is what I had to do, spend $11 for a AMD top, so I didnt have to spend $40+ on a new block.

I hope my information helps you deception, if you have any other questions, just let me know...

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Old 11-08-04, 08:30 AM Thread Starter   #9
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Based on the majority of reviews, I have found that the MCP 6002A would serve me better than a TDX. Nonetheless, my number one concern is whether or not a Pro Core, Sayno 120mm, and Radbox are powerful enough to cool both an A64 CPU and GPU (most likely an x800). Is this feasible?

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Old 11-08-04, 08:42 AM   #10
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i would suggest a heatercore and not the black ice option - my dtek core is doing a pretty good job but having 3 heat sources on this core seems to be "just" keeping up - granted the fan isnt even close to the sanyo fan you are thinking of...
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Old 11-08-04, 09:03 AM Thread Starter   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic-k20
i would suggest a heatercore and not the black ice option - my dtek core is doing a pretty good job but having 3 heat sources on this core seems to be "just" keeping up - granted the fan isnt even close to the sanyo fan you are thinking of...
I had revised my earlier suggestion to that of a D-Tek Pro core coupled with the Sanyo fan. You think this is enough for an A64 and x800?

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Old 11-08-04, 09:37 AM   #12
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its what i am using exactly

a64 3500+ @ 2.52 => swiftec 6002
x800 pro vivo @ xtpe => dd maze4 gpu
k8n nforce 3 chip => dd maze4 chipset
swiftec 650 pump

all cooled by dtek core / panaflo low speed right now (switching to medium speed)
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Old 11-08-04, 10:19 AM Thread Starter   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic-k20
its what i am using exactly

a64 3500+ @ 2.52 => swiftec 6002
x800 pro vivo @ xtpe => dd maze4 gpu
k8n nforce 3 chip => dd maze4 chipset
swiftec 650 pump

all cooled by dtek core / panaflo low speed right now (switching to medium speed)
Perfect. That means that I will be able to run everything with one core. The reason your temps are probably high is due to the fact that a NB block a) reduces flow and b) adds significant heat to the system. I, on the other hand, have no intentions of cooling the NB. My new, FINAL purchase should consist of:

MCP 6002A
D-tek Pro Core (black) with Radbox and 120mm Sanyo Denki Fan
MCW50
7 ft 1/2" Clearflex Tubing (in case I mess up on my first time)
T-Line
Hose Clamps

How does that sound?

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Old 11-08-04, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
FINAL purchase should consist of:

MCP 6002A
D-tek Pro Core (black) with Radbox and 120mm Sanyo Denki Fan
MCW50
7 ft 1/2" Clearflex Tubing (in case I mess up on my first time)
T-Line
Hose Clamps

How does that sound?

deception``
That is exactly what I bought. Except I'm not doing a VGA block right away. I didn't do the Radbox because I didn't want it to cut down on my exhaust air flow from the case. I'm going to mount the rad on the back of the case and let the rear exhaust fan push air through it. I'm putting it on the rig in my sig. Be interesting to compare temps later.
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Old 11-08-04, 11:21 AM Thread Starter   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStan
That is exactly what I bought. Except I'm not doing a VGA block right away. I didn't do the Radbox because I didn't want it to cut down on my exhaust air flow from the case. I'm going to mount the rad on the back of the case and let the rear exhaust fan push air through it. I'm putting it on the rig in my sig. Be interesting to compare temps later.
My coolermaster also has an exhaust fan on the top of my case with which I can remove the hotter air. Also, mounting my Rad in the back of my case will also help to reduce some of the temps on the inside. I am a complete newb when it comes to water, but hopefully everything goes well.

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Old 11-08-04, 02:13 PM   #16
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deception, your better off going to a heatercore then a d-teck pro, go to your local autopart store and ask for a 77' chevette heatercore, its 1 x 120mm size, and provides better heat exchange, and will cost you less as well.

just my 2cents.

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Old 11-08-04, 02:51 PM Thread Starter   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus
deception, your better off going to a heatercore then a d-teck pro, go to your local autopart store and ask for a 77' chevette heatercore, its 1 x 120mm size, and provides better heat exchange, and will cost you less as well. just my 2cents.
It was my understanding that a heatercore and pro core were one in the same. I simply assumed that the Pro Core was painted and included a shroud. Otherwise, the two look almost alike. Am I mistaken here?

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Old 11-08-04, 03:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deception``
It was my understanding that a heatercore and pro core were one in the same. I simply assumed that the Pro Core was painted and included a shroud. Otherwise, the two look almost alike. Am I mistaken here?

deception``
No you are not mistaken. It is a painted heater core with 1/2" barbs added. I know it is a heater core. I have an automotive repair shop and I am looking at this Pro 120 right now. It is an automotive heater core.
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Old 11-08-04, 04:09 PM   #19
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yes it is, but why pay more for something that you can make yourself for under $25?
my fedco 2-302 (77 boniville heatercore) and I paid $16.99 at autozone, $2 for 1/2 barbs, and Ill get the same, if not better heat exchange for 1/3 the price...

the heatercore I have, and the 77 chevette heatercore are copper core's, which we all know is a better heat exchanger. You cant tell with the d-tek.
my 2 cents I would just buy a heatercore from your local autoparts store, and save alot more money.

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Old 11-08-04, 04:49 PM   #20
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Is there areally a difference between the mcp650 and the muffled DD D4?

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