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Overheating

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GunnerMan

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Ok well he said he was playing Doom 3 and all of a sudden he lost his mouse controll. The system: 3.0E Ghz Prescott CPU, GF4 Mx 440 64 meg gfx, 1 Gig Corsair Value Select PC-3200. He said he thought it was overheating. It is on stock cooling with a side blow hole bowing on it gettin about 42C idle temps. I don't think its overheating because the BIOS will have an alarm go off if the CPU hits 62 C and assuming I have the speaker set up right it should work if that happenes, hopefuully it has thermal protection too but if it was overheating I think he would see a reboot or complete lockup not just loss of mouse. Ever scence I built this comp and we were having probs that I thought might have been overhating he is hellbent that every problem is overheating, so I must post it here to so he has a lot of answeres instead of 1. I will run prime 95 on it and monitor temps see where they go and I am not shure if auto overclocking is on or not, not shure if that could cause problems.

Thanks for ideas and info, and he never givs a detailed explanion of the prob and when you ask "he dosent know" so I do not know if the whole thing was locked up or it was just the mouse... :bang head

Just realised maybe this should go in cooling so if it needs moving MOVE IT! :p
 
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It could be overheating and the temp sensor is just wrong. I'm not sure what else would be causing your problem. What are his case temps like and what kind of case cooling does he have?
 
Ok well I ran prime 95 torture test, got to test 2 and the alarm went of sounding 60C and the computer froze(maybe a saftey precaution?) case temps well if I recal they were 25-30 C, he tunred the comp off so I cant get a case temp reading. He has 1 90mm stock case fan a 80 mm CPU blowhole fan and an 80 front intake fan. All stock, what is the recomended temps for the Prescotts? 25-30C case temps seems decent and I thought they made these HSFF to support anything you threw at it as long as it was not overclocking... The temp reader is on a Gigabyte board, if you want the make ask...
 
Has this only happened once? If so, it could have just been a software problem. The stock cooler isn't the best, but its good enough for a stock clockrate. First before you spend money and time on this thing I would see if he can reproduce any errors in Doom 3. Second I would get a can of compressed air and blow out the case and heatsink.

On top of that, I didn't even know you could play Doom3 on a GF4 Mx. :eek:
 
GunnerMan said:
Ok well I ran prime 95 torture test, got to test 2 and the alarm went of sounding 60C and the computer froze(maybe a saftey precaution?) case temps well if I recal they were 25-30 C, he tunred the comp off so I cant get a case temp reading. He has 1 90mm stock case fan a 80 mm CPU blowhole fan and an 80 front intake fan. All stock, what is the recomended temps for the Prescotts? 25-30C case temps seems decent and I thought they made these HSFF to support anything you threw at it as long as it was not overclocking... The temp reader is on a Gigabyte board, if you want the make ask...

Try adjusting the alarm temperature up to its max or turning it off altogehter. Its not uncommon for a Prescott core to run that hot - actually its really natural. Mine ran 69 to 73 degrees full load all the time on stock cooling. Toss an XP120 on there and now Im clipping along at 47 celsius.
 
Check out if there's a BIOS option called something like "CPU Internal Thermal Control". This is the exact name used by Asus. It is found in the BIOS of P4P800 series mobos under "CPU Configuration". You MAY have something similar, or perhaps nothing at all, depending on your mobo & BIOS.

If you have this feature, & it is set to "enabled" or "auto", it will cause a temporary freeze, but not a reboot. This IS NOT the TM1 thermal throttling that has been around for the last several years in P4's, & usually occurs at ~72 - 75*C.

Rather, it is a form of "On Demand" that the mobo manufacturer sets, & is generated by the mobo's BIOS. On Asus P4P800 series S478 mobos it occurs around ~5 - 7*C lower than the P4's internal thermal throttling mentioned above.

Here's how you can check it out if TM1 or On Demand is invoking in WinXP:

Open the tskmgr
Select the 'Performance' tab
Under 'view':
set Update Speed to 'high'
set Cpu History to 'one graph per cpu'
tick 'Show Kernal Times' (this last one is VIP)
Leave the tskmgr open, just as it is.

If you use Prime95 and don't have enough RAM for 2 concurrent torture tests :
Launch the Prime95 window
Pull down 'options'
Select 'torture test'
tick 'custom' on the newly opened window
Enter the desired memory amount in the now available "Memory To Use" box .

Now run two instances of prime 95 (you can do this by running one instance out of two seperate folders w/different names). Or run two instances of any other Distributed Computing client or burn-in ustility that will require 100% cpu utilization continuously.

With both apps launched, the cpu usage will shoot to 100% & the 'Cpu Usage History' graphs will show a continous green line across the very top of the graph. If you open an app, scroll, or move some windows around, you should see some small, brief, blips, of a red graphical line, rising from the bottom of the CPU Usage History graphs. This is your kernal usage, & it should generally be at the floor of the graphs, & very negligible to invisible, when the dual concurrent tests are utilizing your cpu 100%, and you are not doing anything else on the PC, like opening apps, scrolling the mouse, etc.

Now here's where you can detect if the mobo's invoking On Demand. The temps will climb, and then you will see the red kernal line make a very large, wide, spike, most of the way up the graph, while the mouse (and most everything else) *freezes* for several seconds. Then the system becomes 'normal' again (including the graphs), only to repeat the process again within several seconds or a minute, or so. If so, then you've experienced an On Demand thermal event. The system will not crash or reboot, it will simply freeze for a few seconds, maybe even 15 seconds to half a minute, and then resume normal operations, and may then cycle back & forth, with the freezes lengthening, and the normal operation periods shortening, or nearly ceasing.

This sounds very similar to what your friend might be experienceing, but he shuts down the sytem during the thermal event (it is pretty scary the first time you experience it).

If this is happenning, and you can find & disable the feature in your BIOS (or possibly it's tied to the alarm s/w), the testing I mentioned above will probably go a few degrees higher, & then trigger the normal TM1 "thermal throttling". In this case, the green and red lines on the graphs will converge towards the middle (50% usage), and will be all squiggly looking, and going up & down haphazardly. The machine will continue to function, but the proc will process work more slowly, even though speed monitoring utilities will show the proc at its rated speed.

I hope I'm wrong, but I tend to agree w/your friend: It does sound like overheating. Prescotts (especially C0 steppings, and to a slighly lessor extent, D0 steppings) can be a BIT** to cool, and sensors can be way off. I doubt my stock C0 stepping Prescott 3.2 using a stock Intel HSF could handle dual Prime Torture while in a case, w/o tripping my Asus' thermal set-points. But, it does sound like you've got excellent case cooling, so this is somewhat confusing.

I'd first pull the side covers off the box, & see if the prob still occurs at ambient temps. Maybe even set-up a window fan blowing into the side of the case w/the sidecover off. I'd then try a R & R of the stock HSF, using a good TIM, like AS5, & making sure it's well seated. Lastly, I'd consider an aftermarket HSF (XP-90/120, Zalman 7700cu, etc.).

If heat isn't the issue, then the other area to look at might be the PSU. Prescotts should have a min 20A on the 12V rail, IME. But a PSU prob usually results in a reboot, so I don't think that's your prob.

HTH

Strat
 
Thanks for all the help, I ran P5 Torture test and the CPU usage only went to 55 % max and temps 55C max. I ran Doom 3 and exited and it was at 45C so we an round it up to 50C.... But yes the stock hsf does look rather whimpy but if he gets more freezeups etc I will run firther tests to see whas happenin and if need be buy an new HSF/....
 
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