entering the a64 realm (?)

i'm thinking about dumping my chaintech/barton setup on my unsuspecting roommate and moving on to a dfi/clawhammer setup. from reading, i decided to go with a dfi lanparty ut 250gb board and a dtr 3000+. this seems like not only a decent beginning oc platform, but something that'll run strong for me for a while (i'm a C.S. student so i'm compiling java/c++ all the time and i'm a gamer at heart).
i have just a couple questions for the experienced oc'ers here before i go dropping money though:
1. i know i need a special heatsink/fan for the dtr chip. i was looking at the xp-90, but newegg says it's for the 3200+ and above and someone said something about it not fitting the dtr chips. also, i noticed that it's uber expensive and still needs a fan. any suggestions/recommendations/warnings for a n00b on a budget?
2. will i see any problems with my corsair value select 3200? i know it's value ram, but i'm not planning on going all hardcore with my overclocking (if i do, i'll upgrade my ram). i couldn't get any info on the 3000+ claw's fsb. all it says is "integrated on chip"...
3. will my smartpower 400w psu be up for the task of a mild overclock? or should i get something a little beefier? i want to minimize cost, but i want it to be stable and reliable, but not weak and hindered.
4. anything else i need to know that i might have overlooked before i start on this a64 oc'ing binge

1. get a zalman hsf if you are not planning on pushing the limits of the cpu.

2. your ram will do just fine. use a divider if need be.

3. your psu should be ok, but it would not hurt to go with something like a 530w fortron.

4. good luck.

drtycnvs said:

1. i know i need a special heatsink/fan for the dtr chip. i was looking at the xp-90, but newegg says it's for the 3200+ and above and someone said something about it not fitting the dtr chips. also, i noticed that it's uber expensive and still needs a fan. any suggestions/recommendations/warnings for a n00b on a budget?
2. will i see any problems with my corsair value select 3200? i know it's value ram, but i'm not planning on going all hardcore with my overclocking (if i do, i'll upgrade my ram). i couldn't get any info on the 3000+ claw's fsb. all it says is "integrated on chip"...
3. will my smartpower 400w psu be up for the task of a mild overclock? or should i get something a little beefier? i want to minimize cost, but i want it to be stable and reliable, but not weak and hindered.
4. anything else i need to know that i might have overlooked before i start on this a64 oc'ing binge

Click to expand...

1. The ideal heatsink for you would have been the Thermalright SLK-948-U. Unfortunately, this has been discontinued, so your choices are narrowed. As far as I know, you should have no problems pairing your DTR with a Swiftech MCX-6400V (I apologize if this is the wrong model).

2. Your value ram will be just fine for the time being. As you already noted, you will probably have to upgrade when it comes time to overclock, so there is nothing further to discuss here.

3. Your power supply will be fine for a stock system, but it is recommended that you look at something more powerful when it comes time for those high clocks.

4. If you're using the DFI, just know that you might run into initial problems since DTR/Mobile processors are not officially supported. Chances are that the board you receive will have a fairly mature bios, but know that you may need to flash before you get the most out of your system.

deception``

here's the zalman im referring to:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-118-112&depa=0

Have you considered getting a Winchester cored cpu? I honestly never tried mine on air cooling, but at stock settings it ran at 29°C under full load on my water cooling. The guy I bought the cpu from did manage to OC the cpu from 1.8 to 2.5GHz on the stock heatsink/fan. I personally see no reason to get a DTR chip. This would eliminate any mounting issues.

Your PSU will be fine, even for a mild OC, perhaps more, mine is running off a 400w $30 psu.

so the zalman fan in your link is a good heatsink/fan for the dtr chip? it doesn't need anything else to fit the chip? what kind of thermal paste should i get for the dtr claw?

how do i "use a divider"? i think i need to have that explained to me.

does anyone here use the dfi board with a dtr claw? and if so, what bios revision should i get? i guess the whole flashing bit means that i'll need to get a floppy drive :shakes head:

deception``, when you say "... need to upgrade when it's time to overclock", do you mean that if i start playing around and o/cing my processor that the value ram will suffer and choke? or are you saying that it'll work while i'm playing with it, but when i get serious, i'll need serious ram?

The XP series require the retention bracket modded, as shown in this picture, courtesy of D]g[ts.



Another easier and cheaper choice is the Alpha PAL8150T

Athlon64's do not have an FSB. They have an HTT which is similar, except that it is not a data path, just a timer of sorts. Nonetheless, you won't have any problems with your Corsair valueram.

I would consider a new power supply at this point. Unfortunately, there really isn't anything cheap and decent out these days, one of the most cost-effective options out there is there is the $95 500W Fortron Blue Storm. Makes me cringe how this is now considered a "budget" option, but its the way things are these days.

You may want to read this by a certain incredibly handsome and talented individual.

The 3000+ DTR and DFI should be a fun combo for sure. There's a ridiculous amount of headroom in it; I've gotten 800MHz above stock speeds stable from the proc.

Btw, you mightl need one of these BIOSes for the processor to work fully with your board, although the latest DTR's should work fine with the stock BIOS.

>Have you considered getting a Winchester cored cpu?

heh, not really. i'm not a computer "gearhead" i guess... i reserve that for cars and bikes, so maximum performance isn't what i'm after. i really just an a64 that is flexible so i can play with it but still has the power i need for games and compiling... plus i like the name ClawHammer...

they do make a 3500 and 3700 939 clawhammer...

drtycnvs said:

...

how do i "use a divider"? i think i need to have that explained to me.

...

Click to expand...

I suppose you mean memory divider in A64, ....

Just posted in another thread:


When HTT is changed, the CPU frequency, the HT bus frequency and the memory frequency will be altered.

CPU_frequency = HTT x CPU_multiplier

CPU mulitplier is CPU specific, some can be adjusted from below up to the stock multiplier of the CPU.
E.g. A64 754 3200+, stock 2GHz = 200x10, multiplier X10, X9, X8, X7, ....

HT_bus_frequency = HTT x HT_multiplier

HT_multiplier (also called LDT multiplier), most bios has it ranged between 1X and 5X.
E.g. HTT = 200 MHz, 1X to 5X for HT from 200 MHz to 1000 MHz

memory_bus_frequency

memory_bus_frequency = CPU_multiplier x HTT / CPU_memory_divider
where
CPU_memory_divider = ceiling(CPU_multiplier / memory_HTT_ratio)
where memory_HTT_ratio = 1/1, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, 5/6, 7/8, 9/10, ... (availability of somel settings is bios/motherboard dependent)



Overclocking setting for various bus frequencies


E.g.

For a Winchester 3000+ with a max multiplier of x9,

if HTT = 280 MHz

1. CPU_frequency = 9 * 280 = 2520 MHz

2. HT_bus_frequency = 3 * 280 = 840 MHz (this is the system bus connecting the CPU and the chipset)

3. Memory_bus_frequency (connecting the memory modules and the memory controller in the CPU)

If memory_HTT_ratio = 1:1 (aka max memclock = 200 MHz in bios)
memory_divider = 9
memory_bus_frequency = CPU_frequency / memory_divider = 2520 / 9 = 280 MHz

If memory_HTT_ratio = 5:6 (aka max memclock = 166 MHz in bios)
memory_divider = ceiling(9 / (5/6)) = 11
memory_bus_frequency = CPU_frequency / memory_divider = 2520 / 11 = 229 MHz

thanks for the 101 gautam! i'll definitely read into that thread and look at that alpha PAL8150T. what fan would you recommend with that heatsink and how is it "easier"?

>they do make a 3500 and 3700 939 clawhammer...

but i'm on a budget and the 3000+ is like 135$

thanks to hitechjb1 for the divider info. i think i'm getting a better idea of how the a64 works

Like the picture I linked ya, the XP90 would need its retention bracket shaved down a bit. It shouldn't be difficult, but just be aware that its necessary. The Alpha is a bit cheaper, and will work without any modification, as will the Swiftech that Deception listed.

Fans, I can't really say I've got much of a clue about. The 3-bladed Deltas seem to be pretty popular, and would fit on both.

drtycnvs said:

...
(i'm a C.S. student so i'm compiling java/c++ all the time and i'm a gamer at heart).

...
thanks to hitechjb1 for the divider info. i think i'm getting a better idea of how the a64 works

Click to expand...

A C.S. student who can program java/c++ should pick up these A64 concepts in almost no time.

But I think a CS student would consider higher dual channel memory bandwidth and potentially running dual core which are supported by 939 platform too.

^ hehe, i think i'm getting it. it's on my line of thinking, but it's all new info i take a while to absorb it all

*ed* also, a cs student would love a 939 and higher dual channel bandwidth, but this cs student is working his way through college and needs to save enough money for his ramen noodles


pci express 16x and sli....

Gautam said:

Like the picture I linked ya, the XP90 would need its retention bracket shaved down a bit. It shouldn't be difficult, but just be aware that its necessary. The Alpha is a bit cheaper, and will work without any modification, as will the Swiftech that Deception listed.

Click to expand...

I personally would do the mod on the XP-90...those are some of the best heatsinks out for A64's...they cool and handle the thermal wattage much better then Zalmans and Alpha's...I didnt check out the swiftech link...but if it is from swiftech...I am sure it is a good one...

And I seen you where on a budget...but was just informing you that they do make 939 non FX clawhammers ...

Do some research and pricing,

price(939_CPU_512KBL2 + 939_board) ~ price(754_CPU_1MBL2 + 754 board)

If everything clocked to the SAME frequencies of CPU, memory bus, HT bus, same memory timing setting, same revision (CG preferred), I think the performance order should be like this:

939 A64 1 MB L2 (unbuffer memory) >=
939 FX 1 MB L2 (registered memory) >=
754 1 MB L2 (ClawHammer) >=
754 512 KB L2 (NewCastle)

939 A64 512 KB L2 ~ 754 A64 1 MB L2 (non-memory intensive programs)
939 A64 512 KB L2 >= 754 A64 1 MB L2 (memory intensive programs)
939 A64 512 KB L2 >= 754 A64 512 KB L2

90 nm 939 512 KB L2 >= 130 nm 939 512 KB L2

>= stands for better or equal performance.


Different CPU and system platforms (940, 754, 939) (post 4)

Performance analysis of various A64 systems (including Barton, P4's) (post 7)

Typical Overclocking Systems for 939, 754 (post 2)

Low PR 90 nm 939 Winchester (Sept 2004)

Nforce4 chipsets with PCI-e, SLI features

Venice is finally coming in April 2005

About Rev E and SSE3 instructions

Dual-core

You may want to think about this ran. It's CL2, under $100 and it's got some overclocking potential.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-231-012&depa=1
Good luck.

i really like the way that the 3000+ dtr claw and the dfi lanparty 250 look... for one, they're both pretty cheap on newegg. two, they seem like a good, reliable setup for some stabile performance as well as having good potential for some playful overclocking (<-- read: impressing my friends at lanparties). and lastly, i don't want to spend a lot of money on this rig. i have a decent laptop (inspiron 8600) and that was supposed to be the only computer i needed at school. the desktop rig is just for messing around and gaming
i thank everyone for their advice- i'm really excited to be a member of this friendly and helpful community of people that are really passionate about what they do.
from what i've gleaned so far, this'll be the new rig:
amd athlon 64 3000+ clawhammer dtr
dfi lanparty ut 250gb nforce 3
1g(2x512) corsair vs3200
fortron blue storm 500w psu
alpha PAL8150T hs
antec 34cfm 80mm fan
asus 6600gt (agp)
maxtor 80gb 7200rpm

this is the rough idea of my rig... any final suggestions would be appreciated- expecially in the department of the fan. i think that any 80mm will do and i like the antec one, but i'm still debating the zalman (like the style)... that swiftech weighs a flippin pound and a half!!
the vid card, hard drive, and ram are all things that i have already that i am going to use.
i would like to find a thread about thermal paste and it's use in a dtr application- like how much, where to apply, _what kind_... that kind of thing