Questions about some linux distros...

Goateh · Apr 26, 2005

Right well, where to begin.

I'm interested in using linux (again). I havn't actually installed it in quite a while and my windows system seems to be running fine, so I'm kinda bored. Now I've used Slack, redhat and debian, but after using debian I just can't live without apt-get or something similar.

My question is, Which is a distro to use that has something similar to that and is fairly easy to install. Debian has apt-get, gentoo has emerge and yoper has apt-get (i think), I'm just after one that will allow me to get everything up and going and has a up-to-date repository of packages. From what I remember debian wasn't all that good at being up to date, gentoo seems like its going to be a pain to install with windows XP and I'm not entirely sure about yoper or how the packages and things work on that.

So yeah, any guidance/advice/links would be brilliant. And yes, I realise this might sound completely idiotic, I'm just curious.

Thanks

edit- ATi cards are a ******* to get working in linux arn't they?

kaltag · Apr 26, 2005

Yoper uses debian's repositories and it's own optimized repository but neither is as up to date as Gentoo's portage system (emerge). The gentoo install isn't that hard, just long. Use a knoppix disc and Qparted to create some partitions and do the install. Don't touch hda1 and you'll be fine

Goateh · Apr 26, 2005

Heh, whoops

Maybe I should reparition hdb :S

klingens · Apr 26, 2005

Just run debian testing or unstable (which is not unstable as in "crashes often"!) and the packages are as up to date as any other distro.

{PMS}fishy · Apr 26, 2005

Goateh said:
edit- ATi cards are a ******* to get working in linux arn't they?

2d is as easy as any other card. 3d is about as fun as pulling teeth.

Goateh · Apr 26, 2005

klingens said:
Just run debian testing or unstable (which is not unstable as in "crashes often"!) and the packages are as up to date as any other distro.

Then comes the question of compiling the 2.6 kernel... i managed to bork my system last time. But the unstable or testing is up to date? Might give debian a little go again...

{PMS}fishy said:
2d is as easy as any other card. 3d is about as fun as pulling teeth.

Oh, brilliant. I can see I'm going to have alot of fun with this then :/

Kris · Apr 26, 2005

Don't worry the people here are the most helpful group I have ever seen. If you have a problem they will help you get thru it.

Goateh · Apr 26, 2005

Right, well fair enough.

is it possible it apt-get xorg-x11?

or am I getting confused with the gentoo emerge line for that ? I read that ati drivers seem to be easier to get going on xorg than xfree86

OSGentoo · Apr 26, 2005

dude..... if you want a gentoo system but the install freeks ya out, try Vidalinux, it is essentially gentoo with a graphical installer and it installs most everything you need to have a running and.... somewhat functional system (if you like gnome), than emerge the rest of the packages you want and you're set.

It's not quite as fast as a well optimized gentoo system, but close, otherwise, it's got all the benefits of gentoo..... except you don't learn much lol

{PMS}fishy · Apr 26, 2005

Goateh said:
Then comes the question of compiling the 2.6 kernel... i managed to bork my system last time.

I still don't understand how people manage to kill systems by making a bad kernel. Just add another line to the grub/lilo confg, and never ever delete a working kernel, untill you have another working kernel. I usually have 2 or 3 on each system, and one is called failsafe, so I know not to ever delete it, even if I am feeling dumb.

{PMS}fishy · Apr 26, 2005

OSGentoo said:
dude..... if you want a gentoo system but the install freeks ya out, try Vidalinux, it is essentially gentoo with a graphical installer and it installs most everything you need to have a running and.... somewhat functional system (if you like gnome), than emerge the rest of the packages you want and you're set.

It's not quite as fast as a well optimized gentoo system, but close, otherwise, it's got all the benefits of gentoo..... except you don't learn much lol

Yeah, but its a 2.4 kernel last I checked, and it defets the purpose of running Gentoo, aside from portage. I tried it once, and tried emerge -eU world, and well, lots of bad things happened, and that install never survived the week.

rogerdugans · Apr 26, 2005

I will admit to being biased towards Gentoo.

I use it on most of my systems, most of the time nowadays, although I do mess with others now and then, just to keep abreast of things.

IF you want good 3d performance with an ATI card then Gentoo is the way to go: easiest ATI driver install I have tried (and I have tried a LOT!) and the best ATI 3d performance of any of the distros I messed with.

After the base install is done and booted, I suggest this order for installation:
emerge xorg-x11
emerge kde (or gnome, fluxbox or whatever window manager you want)
emerge ati-drivers

Test after each emerge.
It will take longer doing it this way, but you will be assured that everything is working and learn more about the system and configuration.

Installation does take a while- expect to go over one night for the base install, anyway, unless you start early and have no problems.

Xorg is an overnighter and so are kde/gnome: they are BIG compiles.

{PMS}fishy · Apr 26, 2005

Goateh said:
Right, well fair enough.

is it possible it apt-get xorg-x11?

or am I getting confused with the gentoo emerge line for that ? I read that ati drivers seem to be easier to get going on xorg than xfree86

ATI drivers work better on xfree86 last time I checked, and didn't work very well at all on the lastest xorg.

Not sure of the procedure, but its probally as simple as removing xfree86 and installing xorg.

OSGentoo · Apr 26, 2005

2.6.9 .... i installed it on my other box
and if i am not mistaken 2.6.10 for the x86_64 version

OSGentoo · Apr 26, 2005

oh, sorry..... it's not called vidalinux anymore..... it's called VLOS 1.1

{PMS}fishy · Apr 26, 2005

rogerdugans said:
I will admit to being biased towards Gentoo.
I use it on most of my systems, most of the time nowadays, although I do mess with others now and then, just to keep abreast of things.

IF you want good 3d performance with an ATI card then Gentoo is the way to go: easiest ATI driver install I have tried (and I have tried a LOT!) and the best ATI 3d performance of any of the distros I messed with.

After the base install is done and booted, I suggest this order for installation:
emerge xorg-x11
emerge kde (or gnome, fluxbox or whatever window manager you want)
emerge ati-drivers

Test after each emerge.
It will take longer doing it this way, but you will be assured that everything is working and learn more about the system and configuration.

Installation does take a while- expect to go over one night for the base install, anyway, unless you start early and have no problems.

Xorg is an overnighter and so are kde/gnome: they are BIG compiles.

Only takes overnight on old outdated hardware

Good advise though, only thing I would add, is if you are going to use KDE, emerge kdebase, its the base GUI with out all the extra bloat, all of which can be emerged later in whole, or in groups, such as kde-arts. I find I prefer to get up and into KDE as fast as possible, so I can actually use the computer, and then I start the rest of my emerges.

Keep a close eye on any of the guides you follow. There are some pretty important lines in there, that if you skip over, it will not work. You will know when you get it going, and you may not be happy with the performance, I know most are not.

If it were up to me, Id ditch the ATI card, and get an Nvidia. Linux support is so much better, and the driver installs by issuing 2 commands, and editing one line in a config file. One can only hope ATI takes a page out of Nvidia's book for linux drivers.

There is an ATI Gentoo guide as well.

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_ATI_Drivers

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/dri-howto.xml

http://odin.prohosting.com/wedge01/gentoo-radeon-faq.html

rogerdugans · Apr 26, 2005

And fishy reminded me about the switch from xfree86 to xorg: most of my testing was done in xfree86.

I believe that ATI IS working with Xorg now, but as I no longer have an ATI to mess with.....

OSGentoo · Apr 26, 2005

ati drivers improving although... still inferior to nvidia, and typically..... ati drivers are much less hastle to install..... on most distros... not all

MRD · Apr 26, 2005

nVidia drivers are FAR easier to install, but ATI are doable. I just did an ATI install, it took me a few hours to get the drivers working. It's not the 2 mins nVidia takes, but it's not impossible.

eNightmare · Apr 26, 2005

you might also check arch linux...its just as fast....but i would go gentoo--if you have an internet connection.

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