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L12 mod should only be used with 133 FSB CPUs (?)

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But it's still board specific, right?
 
Never did it on my NF7-S, but I was still able to get 245 FSB rock-stable, which was probably the limit of the board's northbridge. I ran TicTac Mantaray XT D26 BIOS, which has a "soft L12" mod, and I ran the Abit D26 and D27 BIOSes, and it made very little difference. This was a mobile 2600+, by the way, so default FSB was 133. It seemed to have no problem running at almost twice that, and the "soft L12" mod didn't seem to make any difference either.

Personally, I think it's just one of those things where maybe people reseat the chip and heatsink to make better contact, and get higher FSB as a result of improved heat transfer/cooling. Or maybe people just want to believe that it makes a difference, so they don't test stability as thoroughly, and just assume they suddenly gained an extra 20 MHz of FSB. From a logical standpoint, it makes zero sense that some people claim shorting the bridges to make 133 FSB CPU's use 166 FSB get improved performance. There are also people now claiming that doing the opposite, setting 166 FSB CPU's to default to 133 FSB, has increased their FSB. This goes against all logic, and is probably more board specific than anything.

The only thing I can possibly think to explain this is that some boards might have some sort of "safety feature" that is switched on when FSB is set too high above default, and they refuse to boot. That would explain how setting FSB to 166 would give you up to 33 extra MHz, but it doesn't explain how changing 166 FSB to 133 default would change anything. Obviously, the CPU itself doesn't care about what its default FSB is, and it doesn't "prefer" one over the other. It is inherently capable of a maximum FSB depending on the quality of the chip, and there is no logical explanation of how jumping pins or bridges would suddenly turn the silicon in the core into higher-quality and capable of higher FSB.
 
I don't think L12 mod is necessary with the A7N8X fitted with an XP-M but have not tested to verify that. I have the four systems in my sig with XP mobiles and initially ran at about 205x11.5 using the latest stock ASUS BIOS. Going much over 205 became unstable. I've read where people did the mod but did not gain much - it seems with the stock BIOS, 205 is about all even later revision A7N8Xs will do.

However, flashing to theTrats "soft L12" modded BIOS did improve my FSB up to 220+ but I believe the improvement mostly came from aggressive DFI rom sips he grafted in to replace ASUS code. Of course in the process he did replace the default ASUS 133, 166 and 200 rom sips with the DFI 200MHz code so no matter what the CPU's native FSB it would default to the DFI 200MHz code. For that reason it's hard to attribute how much was the soft L12 and how much was DFI's better code.

This does show that it's important to try a recommended modded BIOS with your board, they really can help!
 
emboss said:
Just like RAM, the CPU to northbridge interface has a number of parameters. Think of the parameters as being like cas latency, etc. To run at a higher speed, you need to loosen some timings. The biggest problem (for us overclockers and for the manufacturers sort of) is that all these parameters and what they do are only available under NDA. So they can't stick them as configurable in the BIOS and give you a little blurb in the manual about what they do.

These timings are stored in what are called ROMSIP tables (the method used to communicate these parameters is call the SIP-stream : Serial Initialisation Packet stream). The BIOS usually has hardcoded tables for 100MHz, 133MHz, 166MHz and 200MHz (or a subset of these), and sometimes decides which one to use based on the default FSB of the CPU. So if the default FSB is 133MHz, then you get the 133MHz timings regardless of what the FSB is set to in the BIOS. This leads to stability problems or a lower than "ideal" FSB.

What the L12 mod does is change the default FSB to 200MHz. This means the loosest timings are used, and you are not being limited so much with the FSB.

Hey, thanks for that, emboss. Very helpful information plus I've wondered what SIP stands for! I basically understood how it worked but this helps.

But how about manually changing RAM timings - say to 2.5-3-3-11. That's completely a different thing, right?
 
Im trying to find out if it works myself. Not that much because I wanted higher FSB, more because my silly BIOS wont let me use certain multipliers (9 - 10.5) and thus making my CPU run at 228 X 8.5.

There is no modded BIOS for my board (see sig) so I think I'll go for it...

As for the higher FSB: Douglasb, 20 MHz FSB gain is quite a jump if you ask me. do you realy believe that only reason behind it could be HS reseating? I find that highly unlikely. Also, I've read about people upping their FSBs up to 40 and even 50 MHz...So who knows...
 
gofra said:
Im trying to find out if it works myself. Not that much because I wanted higher FSB, more because my silly BIOS wont let me use certain multipliers (9 - 10.5) and thus making my CPU run at 228 X 8.5.

There is no modded BIOS for my board (see sig) so I think I'll go for it...

As for the higher FSB: Douglasb, 20 MHz FSB gain is quite a jump if you ask me. do you realy believe that only reason behind it could be HS reseating? I find that highly unlikely. Also, I've read about people upping their FSBs up to 40 and even 50 MHz...So who knows...

It's due to different ROMSIP tables being used. You could edit the BIOS to do the same thing, without ever touching a bridge or pin on the CPU. In fact, there are plenty of modded BIOSes out that already do this. You still won't be able to use those certain multipliers, though. It seems like some boards just don't like those multipliers, for some reason. 10.5 seems to be one that a lot of boards don't like.
 
Well for me the L12 mod worked just fine....
With my old board (KT400) I couldn't get over 148 FSB with my current 2400 XP because there was no PCI/AGP lock and everything above it... BSOD! So with the L12 I managed to raise the FSB to 180 and drop the multi accordingly... No I own a Nforce 2 board (see sig) and I have the lock so I think I don't need the mod anymore... and it's difficult to remove the HSF (big typhoon) in order to get it again...
 
douglasb said:
It's due to different ROMSIP tables being used. You could edit the BIOS to do the same thing, without ever touching a bridge or pin on the CPU. In fact, there are plenty of modded BIOSes out that already do this. You still won't be able to use those certain multipliers, though. It seems like some boards just don't like those multipliers, for some reason. 10.5 seems to be one that a lot of boards don't like.


...been through hell searchin for an 8rda3i BIOS mod - no such thing...

So, how difficult is BIOS editing?


Thnx
 
gofra said:
...been through hell searchin for an 8rda3i BIOS mod - no such thing...

So, how difficult is BIOS editing?


Thnx

Well, you will need to know assembly language. It MAY be possible to do a simple replace of the ROMSIP tables using a Hex editor, but you would have to know what to look for, and I wouldn't recommend flashing a BIOS you fooled around with unless you have a BIOS savior or another BIOS chip to hotflash it with if your "project" doesn't work out as planned. Try doing a search for the board + "Trat" or "TicTac" or "Merlin", as those are some of the more widespread modded BIOSes out for a variety of boards.
 
douglasb said:
Well, you will need to know assembly language.

Not at all, not at all. Judging from the assembler code that comes from some of the "famous" BIOS modders it's clear that most of them don't have a clue about assembly language. Most of the modded BIOSes are just stock BIOSes with settings changed (for better performance/overclocking or to re-enable code that has been disabled).
 
emboss said:
Not at all, not at all. Judging from the assembler code that comes from some of the "famous" BIOS modders it's clear that most of them don't have a clue about assembly language. Most of the modded BIOSes are just stock BIOSes with settings changed (for better performance/overclocking or to re-enable code that has been disabled).

Right, I said he could also try hex-editing it. But I wouldn't really mess around with stuff like that unless I knew what I was doing.
 
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