QMDs suspended

This is a KNEE JERK reaction to one large folders complaint. Nuts.

Vijay Pande said:

There have been some questions about the use of flags and FAH's stability and I wanted to make an announcement to try to clear things up.

There are two flags in particular which are to be used with caution. The big WU flag gets big WUs, but these big WUs may be poorly suited for older machines. The bigWU flag combined with advanced methods brings big WUs that are more advanced (QMD"s right now).

Gromacs was originally released as an advanced only WU until we could work things out to make it more stable. By having a flag, one would have to opt in and the default (Tinker in that case) would be stable.

We've kept that philosophy throughout FAH. Right now, Gromacs is stable, but QMD is much less so. QMD is also a big WU, so one has to choose both QMD and advanced methods to get it. BigWU + adv gets highly experimental QMD WUs and they may not work well for all. We suggest that one only use both flags if you're absolutely sure this is what you want (if you're not sure what you want, I would suggest that you don't want QMD's).

We should have been more clear about this, but hopefully this post will help. Due to this confusion, I'm going to suspend QMD's until we can be sure that a significant number of people have gotten the word on this.
So, as a summary, advanced methods is just that -- something which may bring more points, but also more trouble. Please consider this tradeoff when you choose settings.


_________________
Professor Vijay S. Pande, PhD
Director, Folding@Home Distributed Computing Project, and
Assistant Professor of Chemistry and of Structural Biology, Stanford University

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wait wait wait, does that mean no QMDS period or I need to have advanced methods on to get them?

It means period. You've always had to have -advmethods on to get them.

I have adv methods and bigpackets on so I'll continue getting them or no?

what a bad idea. That knee jerk reaction is months late.

dicecca112 said:

I have adv methods and bigpackets on so I'll continue getting them or no?

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No.

I guess it's time to fire up all 6 of my HT clients again once the QMDs have all cleared. I left them all installed just for a day like this. I'll remove that -one unit flag and put all the advanced/beta flags on them so I'll get the latest and greatest other than QMDs.

Instead of fixing the problem, they're going to spank us all for even a lot of constructive critisism. OC-AMD still won't come back until they actually fix it. He's tired of bandaids. I understand his POV as he can't futz with every single system like most of us can.

When I see QMDs back, I'll drop back to my usual 3 Intel clients.

How's about a link so that those of us who are capable can voice our sentiments where it might count.

Obviously what we need is a -QMD flag.

QMD Suspended thread:

http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=12756

I don't know what you guys think about this, but I think It sucks.

I know my PPD went up after switching three of my P4's to QMD's.

I am going to miss them and can't wait until they come back.

Audioaficionado said:

I guess it's time to fire up all 6 of my HT clients again once the QMDs have all cleared. I left them all installed just for a day like this. I'll remove that -one unit flag and put all the advanced/beta flags on them so I'll get the latest and greatest other than QMDs.

Instead of fixing the problem, they're going to spank us all for even a lot of constructive critisism. OC-AMD still won't come back until they actually fix it. He's tired of bandaids. I understand his POV as he can't futz with every single system like most of us can.

When I see QMDs back, I'll drop back to my usual 3 Intel clients.

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I'm set to go back to HT as well. As I've said before nothing has changed in the publicly released WUs. The entire crisis is in reaction to a WU that may never see the light of day.

Heck with my 2gigs of RAM I could even handle a couple of those bad boys

Heh, instead of fixing the damn problem Vijay just suspends QMD's, how typical of Stanford.

Thank God my farm only had 2 P4 machines so I won't take as big a points hit as other folks.

They should be back in a week at most according to Vijay.

I wouldn't call this a knee jerk reaction.. in the conversations I've been having with Vijay, I raised the point that his recommended fix of not running certain combinations of setting/flags is only good to those who read his recommendation at the community forums... I can tell you only the very dedicated folders such as those here and other teams are members there, there are many, many more users that don't know about the forums... but run -advmethods because they heard it will give them more points without knowing what it's really doing.

Suspending the unit's really isn't going to solve anything until the client says what the heck checking "large WU" actually means... it was originally suppuse to mean a file download of 5Mb or more... it got twisted into meaning it may use a heck of a lot of RAM. (and if you've seen some of my posts, I had 3 sessions of F@H using 2.4GB's of ram on a single server)

And while QMD's are part of the issue on a dually, it was a also the lack of memory vs CPU detection.

what is the big wu flag? I know what it does, but I want to know what to put so that when they do start them back up I can get them

hmm.... I hope that this gets solved soon, and that the QMD can come to us A64 guys....

TollhouseFrank said:

hmm.... I hope that this gets solved soon, and that the QMD can come to us A64 guys....

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Second that however I am inclined to pull the plug now as well till things get fixed. Tired of sending units in and getting no credit. The Celly is folding a QMD in 24 hours but stanford won't give it to the celly. Had to down load them to the p4 then move them to the celly and return them to the p4 to send in. The a64 should have had qmds a while back, why are we still waiting? why do I have to move units from p4s to a64s in order to get optimum production? As for the ability to use the systems effectively for other things, well we know that is not so. I'm still folding as of this minute, however I am really not convinced of the integrity of the people running this project. Efficiency seems to be the last thing on their minds and our cpu cycles, parts and time, paid for by us and our families are not theirs to waste. If they can not use our resources effectively then why should we let them be used? If there is a single big folder on team 32 who stops in protest then I too will pull the plug. It seems that the only really effective way to get their attention and to ultimately increase their results and thereby the intent of the program is to make a stand. It would appear that Stanford is unwilling, does not have the time, is lacking in expertise or just does not have the funding to provide how many free cycles to aid in its' research. This is an intolerable situation given the amount of money spent by the members that are folding to help what we percieve as mankind.
Though it is a ruthless means, if there is enough of a drop, Stanford will immediately address the situation or have to concede that our contributions are of little interest to them and our efforts would be better served elsewhere.

http://forum.folding-community.org/...4cbaf6ea9ccc16f

Can't imagine why they locked that thread.

Xeons are presently relegated to folding 4 Tinkers. The P4 will be in the same boat tommorow (actually a couple hours). Then I will go back to hyper threading it and may down clock it some as whats the use. As for the a64s and the celly, may bring them down all together tommorow.

OC-AMD said:

I wouldn't call this a knee jerk reaction.. in the conversations I've been having with Vijay, I raised the point that his recommended fix of not running certain combinations of setting/flags is only good to those who read his recommendation at the community forums... I can tell you only the very dedicated folders such as those here and other teams are members there, there are many, many more users that don't know about the forums... but run -advmethods because they heard it will give them more points without knowing what it's really doing.

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Point taken. To assume everyone pays FAH as much attention as those on this forum, is unwise. When I stop and consider how many borgs I lost when QMDs slowed them intollerably and how that would also apply to every preson downloading FAH for the first time, it gives me pause. I don't think suspending QMDs is the right way to go about it since, for the most part the damage is done, and the suspension will cause a firestorm of its own. Far and away the most prevalent problems are associated with multiple instances on a single machine and you pretty much have to visit the forums to find out how to do that.