Taking the SPAM war to the SPAM sites!!!

Sorry if this has already been posted (I couldn’t find it)

I just read an interesting idea to take the SPAM war to the SPAMmers. Blue Security, a security firm, began distributing a free beta program that makes your computer a part of a community of computers that works to cripple Web sites run by SPAMmers. Much like a distributed computing effort: it works by building up a member list and having all the members complain at once to a specific SPAM site .

I felt this is a good idea, I think there maybe some other members who feel it’s worth a look. The article I read was called “Bringing Spammers to Their Knees” it’s by PC World and you can check it out here: http://pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,121841,00.asp

The home page of the security firm that wants to get the SPAMmers is www.bluesecurity.com.

wow that sounds pretty interesting, good find! I think I'll join up!!!!!!

Too bad it's illegal: DOS and DDOS are both illegal. Besides: do you want to get into a ****ing contest with spammers who own thousands of Windows boxes on broadband as zombies?

Say goodbye to your backbones folks if this happens: bittorrent won't be 35% of the traffic anymore but it will be 90% DDOS packets and 10% rest.

klingens said:

Too bad it's illegal: DOS and DDOS are both illegal. Besides: do you want to get into a ****ing contest with spammers who own thousands of Windows boxes on broadband as zombies?

Say goodbye to your backbones folks if this happens: bittorrent won't be 35% of the traffic anymore but it will be 90% DDOS packets and 10% rest.

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wait, where did u get DOS and DDOS from? And what about what Blue Security is doing is illegal? I'm confused.

klingens said:

Too bad it's illegal: DOS and DDOS are both illegal. Besides: do you want to get into a ****ing contest with spammers who own thousands of Windows boxes on broadband as zombies?

Say goodbye to your backbones folks if this happens: bittorrent won't be 35% of the traffic anymore but it will be 90% DDOS packets and 10% rest.

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Maybe you should have read the article.

The influx of tens of thousands of requests exactly at the same time floods the spammers' Web site, causing it to become inoperable. And because spammers typically must pay for the bandwidth of traffic to and from their sites, the massive flood of complaints means higher bills to keep the sites running, Blue Security argues.

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sounds like a good idea to me

Right now it's fine (gray area ) because it will be just using the opt-out function required by the CAN-SPAM law. The problem will be when it gets distorted in a court of law, but that should be a long time off as it will only be targeting the CAN-SPAM law breakers.

i would say it must be for the most part legal right now if not you definately wouldnt find it at a place like PC world, i think i might give it a whirl just for the heck of it.

Maybe you should read the full article:

Blue Security's Reshef bristles at the notion that his firm is involved with any type of DDoS attack. "We aren't trying to shut down any Web sites. We are just trying to slow these sites down so much the spammers can't earn money,"

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Intentionally trying to slow down other people's websites, even spammer scum websites by sending them traffic, is the textbook definition of DDOS attacks. No matter what this spokesperson says. And DDOS is just illegal.
And when they succeed in their goal of disrupting spammers sufficiently to annoy them, the spammers WILL retaliate. By courts (suing this company) and by illegal means themselvs (DDOSing and hacking the company and the users of that software).Just ask any spam activists like MAPS, spamcop and others.

DDoS define:
On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-24,GGLG:en&q=define+DDOS

The Key is not to shut them down but to to slow them down. Specifically to the point they don't make money off your email address, thus your no longer a usable commodity to the Spammers.

How much do you wanna bet the courts won't take it like that? Even though it's not by def, it boils down to DDOS and it's still illegal. They could just get their servers hit, then take them off when their on their last leg and say "ohh illegal DDOS attack!"

I hate spam as much as the next guy, but this is just bringing people down to their level (even though it sounds kinda fun). Becides I woulden't want to attack them since they can turn all of their zombie computers against US.

That's like forming a small army of 1000 people to go against the US Army because they don't like them.

And what your saying is like saying that tresspassing isn't illegal if the owner can't catch you...

crap, I'm gonna see if I can resign from that site then.

I'm not trying to scare you... i'm not going to say courts are going to come after you... but I think this may be a bad move for Blue Security. For the spammers, it would be hard and pointless to go after the users, so why not use your computing power and go after the source (aka Blue Security computers)?

If I was a spammer and Blue Security started to slow my stuff to a crawl, I would use my zombie computers all around the world and attack anything related to Blue Security.

PCGUY112887 said:

How much do you wanna bet the courts won't take it like that? Even though it's not by def, it boils down to DDOS and it's still illegal. They could just get their servers hit, then take them off when their on their last leg and say "ohh illegal DDOS attack!"

I hate spam as much as the next guy, but this is just bringing people down to their level (even though it sounds kinda fun). Becides I woulden't want to attack them since they can turn all of their zombie computers against US.

That's like forming a small army of 1000 people to go against the US Army because they don't like them.

And what your saying is like saying that tresspassing isn't illegal if the owner can't catch you...

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It is only a crime if Blue actually crosses the line, and shut down a SPAM site; and then the only way it will go to court is if someone, the illegal SPAM'er, files a complaint.

Think about it, if they only go after the Spammers who break the law, what are the odds one will actually file suit. It's hard to go to court and say I broke the law but this other guy may have too.

I understand that it makes them a target for hackers and Spammers but how long do you stand in the middle of a swamp before you squash the mosquitoes that have been biting you. I think it is not a point of sinking to their level but moving from the "keep hitting me I think I'm starting to like it" mind set we are in now.

To date, with little exception, the WWW community accepts a “defense only” way to solve the problem of SPAM. I feel this is foolish and if there is someone that has the courage to stand up against these crooks I say more power to them and offer what I can to help. Do I think this is the solution to stop SPAM…No. BUT it is a step in the right direction; I would love to see the government run this program and enforce all the laws that go with it. I do agree these guys will be a big old target if enough people stand up and assist it may lead the way for others to do the same.

Remember all current SPAM reducing methods cost us, the consumer, something. Whether it the ISP's reading and filtering our emails or us setting up a bunch of junk email address we pay the tab in the end.

I am fine with someone sending me emails if I bought junk from them or if I asked for it, but there is no reason to get 50 spoofed emails about Viagra and how I don’t need a prescription to get it. Nor should any child have to deal with it as dose my minor sister. These guys don’t break one law they break many and they don’t care about anything but the green, if we can shift the cost back to them then great.

It is only a crime if Blue actually crosses the line, and shut down a SPAM site; and then the only way it will go to court is if someone, the illegal SPAM'er, files a complaint.

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"Yes your honor, me trying to steal something wasn't a crime since I didn't succeed in stealing what I wanted". "No your honor, it wasn't murder, the intended victim still lives". You wanna say that?
And the illegal spammer won't file a complaint, but the spammer trade associations and the like certainly will. And a service like that WILL generate false positives which opens them to a lawsuit. Even then: you don't need to have grounds for a proper lawsuit to start one: you can use it just to harrass the other party with a civil suit. Example of suits against blacklists and the people who run those lists is ample evidence that this will happen. Also, judges take a very dim view against vigilantism which is what this is.

Spammers don't bear the costs of their actions either, that's one of the reasons they're so despicable. And as soon as a DDOS war starts between this company and the spammers on the backbones, the tier1 ISPs will take a very dim view indeed of this company. Very very dim. As in "pariah of the network" dim. As in nullrouting dim.

Stedeman said:

The Key is not to shut them down but to to slow them down. Specifically to the point they don't make money off your email address, thus your no longer a usable commodity to the Spammers.

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Blue Security contacts both the Spammer and the ISP prior to the opt-out, as well as confirming they are an illegal site. To make the assumption they are going after these people somehow swinging blind is foolish. This company has done a ton of analyzing and processing of SPAM data; as well as, released many reports about SPAMing problems. This is their field of expertise; they are not a bunch of crazy kids bent on a DDoS war.

As for going to court, that could be a good thing if they hurt the Spammers and are found not-guilty. The only problem is if they screw up bad or can’t handle the pressure.

Think of ghandi....