Arg.. does this PSU have enough guts?

I'm in the middle of building the following budget gaming rig for my cousin:

--> DFI NF4 Ultra-D
--> Venice 3000+
--> BFG 6600GT OC PCI-E
--> BenQ 16x8x16 DVDRW
--> 160GB Seagate SATA HD

I picked up a Sonata II case w/ Antec's Smartpower II 450W PSU included -- at the time I figured this would be enough power but after reading a few threads on DFI-Street, I'm having second thoughts. I came accross the following bits of information:

"DFI now REQUIRES native 24-pin ATX molex & 480W for all the DFI NF4 mobos"

"Minimum of +12V@26A for Single Video Card Systems & +12V@34A for Dual Video Card (SLI) Systems. "

Here's a link to the specs for the Smartpower 450:
http://www.antec.com/specs/SP450_spe.html

The rail specs are as follows:


+3.3V -- 32.0A*
+5V -- 30A*
+12V1 -- 15A*
+12V2 -- 17A
+5V SB -- 2.0A
-12V -- 0.3A
-----------------
* +5V, +12V1, 12V2 and +3.3V maximum output: 410 Watts max
* +5V and +3.3V combined output: 150Watts

Looks like the combined 12v rail is 32A, which looks good.

I guess I'm wondering if this PSU will be enough? I choose the Sonata because of the balance between performance and price.... Antec has never let me down in the past but since this is not my machine, I want to be sure its stable.

A few more points -- I have purchased a Zalman 7700Cu heatsink and intend on mildly overclocking this thing... maybe to 2300 - 2500mhz... I want to keep the voltage close to stock -- again because this isn't my system and I dont want to spend the next couple of years servicing it weekly.

What do you guys think? -- should I stick with this or switch to something with a little more juice. My cousin is on a tight budget..... so $150CAD for case and PSU is pushing it..... (the Sonata II w/ PSU was $140CAD).

-Adrayic

It should be enough, if you want some better OC's i suggest finidng a PSU thats over 20A on each 12V rail

jokers_greg said:

It should be enough, if you want some better OC's i suggest finidng a PSU thats over 20A on each 12V rail

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um. I dont think I have seen any power supply that has more than 20A on both 12V rails.

I was just looking into that too..... I only found a couple that had a 20A rail.... -- like the OCZ Powerstream 600w (which has 1 18A and 1 20A rail) but this is way out of my price range

-Adrayic

lowfat said:

um. I dont think I have seen any power supply that has more than 20A on both 12V rails.

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Zippy has one... it's a 600w unit that costs a fortune.

Good news is, it isn't needed. I would suggest the Seasonic S12 500w+, Fortron AX500-A or FSP550-60PLG, or OCZ Powerstream 520w (avoid the 600w).

Ok, a couple of questions.... I'm looking into the Seasonic S12, and the Fortron Bluestorm 500w and the specs dont look very different from the Smartpower 450w.

Bluestorm 500w
-------------------

+3.3V -- 30.0A
+5V -- 28.0A
+12V1DC -- 15.0A
+12V2DC -- 15.0A
-12V -- 0.5A
+5VSB -- 2.0A

+3.3V & +5V total output can't exceed 160W
When +3.3V is loaded to 30A, the +5V max. load is 12A
When +3.3V is loaded to 6A, the +5V max. load is 28A
+3.3V, +5V, +12V1, and +12V2 total output can't exceed 445W

The Smartpower 450 puts out more current on the 3v, 5v and 12v rails. The Bluestorm puts out a total of 445w on the combined 3, 5, and 12v rails while the smartpower 450 puts out 410w.

Given that the system power demands arn't that hefty (1 optical device, 1 HD, and a video card that doesn' require the use of a PCI-E power adapter), would I really need the extra 35w?

When overclocking is concerned.... how will the fortron PSU be better when the rails are smaller? I'm a little confused here... any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Adrayic

3dflyer - a few comments

Avoid dual rail units. Don't worry about what you may have read elsewhere. Listen to these guys that have had these units, study them, and know what it takes. They have already given you great info. You don't need dual rails. You need a PSU that has real power on a single rail. Those are the Seasonic, The Fortrons listed, OCZ, and PC P&C. Avoid the OCZ 600 and the modstreams, they won't cut it.

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You say to avoid dual rail units and then go on to state that I should go w/ the Seasonic or one of the Fortrons listed. Hmmm... both the Seasonic S12 500w & the Fortron AX500-A are dual 12v railed units. I dont doubt the fact that OKWolf knows his stuff.... and this is precicely why I have questioned him on the differences between the dual railed fortron and seasonic units he's suggested, and the smartpower 450w.

With regards to the OCZ 520W powerstream -- if you look at my sig you'll notice that I own this PSU. I have benched my San Diego 3700+ @ just shy of 3ghz on air with it and have also used it to run my OCZ 4000VX directly off the 3v rail w/ a jumper mod. I am very satisfied with it and wouldn't hesitate to buy another in the future. Unfortunately, as I stated previously, the powerstreams are way out of my cousins budget.

With the system you have listed it's gonna take a PSU that has some grunt...don't skimp. SLi needs alot of power...not inflated ratings.

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First off, nowhere in my post did I say anything about SLI. I am running a single 6600GT PCI-E w/ 1 optical drive and one HD. I have also stated that I am looking for a mild overclock w/ the CPU voltage being kept close to stock. I really dont see how this will require a beefy PSU -- perhaps you could explain which components would require a lot of power?

Edited to Add: Smart Power is cheap stuff. Don't believe all ratings. Many PSU's rate their units way over what they actually deliver. The ones listed above do what is advertised.

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I know that the Smartpower line is Antec's value solution but I never would have considered them the type of company to skimp out and rate their products beyond their actual performance. On the contrary, I have found Antec to produce very good products. I have searched for reviews on the smartpower series and almost every one has been positive.

As for the Smartpower being "cheap stuff".... could you explain what you mean? Newegg sells the SmartPower 450W for $69. Comparatively, the AX500-A listed by OKWolf can be had for $72 bucks @ Ewiz.com. I have already pointed out that both have very similar specs..... so given that both units are comparatively priced, what makes the Smartpower so much cheaper?


-Adrayic

Thanks for the clarification..... man, I'm really at a loss here. I have no idea what I should do. The motherboard arrives late this afternoon so I guess I'll have to decide by then.

I wouldn't have a problem changing the PSU -- the problem is trying to find a decent case / PSU combination for around $150CAD. It doesn't help that I live in Canada, where the selection of such things is definately limited -- especially the local selection. None of the stores carry the Fortron / Seasonic units suggested and the case selection is even more dissapointing. I guess I could try to order something but shipping for a case and PSU would definately ramp up the price. Talk about being stuck!

-Adrayic

This is what is referred to as "paralysis by analysis". Sooner or later you have to move beyond the theoretical, and into the actual. Since you are already going to have this power supply, try the thing. Experience is the great teacher. There will always be someone on a forum that has made a different choice for their own system, and nine times out of ten, they will insist that you must replicate their decision to be doing the right thing. Most times, it's just self-serving hogwash.

The AX-500A Fortron is a stronger supply, ratings are next of kin to lies. They are not measurements of output. But you are going to have the Smartpower supply, in the flesh, already paid for. Nobody else here has tried this combo, and it may well work excellently. Try it, and you become your own expert where this configuration is concerned. And once you do, report back here so I can incorporate your real-world results into my enormous bank of random data gleaned from real experience, and perhaps be able to tell the next person that asks something useful.

I have literally thousands of machine builds in my personal experience, something few users do. I have seen most everything, two or three times at least. I have been able to correlate the psuedo-knowledge (specs) most people use in place of any real knowledge with the resultant real-world results with a high degree of accuracy due to these factors. But more than anything, I can tell you you don't know jack until you try something, and this is worth trying.

I was just looking into that too..... I only found a couple that had a 20A rail.... -- like the OCZ Powerstream 600w (which has 1 18A and 1 20A rail) but this is way out of my price range

-Adrayic

Click to expand...

thats the PSU i was referring to. 20A on each rail is really a good solid PSU.

Thx for all the quick replies. I am going to follow Larva's recommendation and give this thing a shot. If it doesn't work out, I'll ebay the PSU and order one of the fortron or seasonic PSU's mentioned above. In any case, I will report back with my findings. Thanks again

-Adrayic

** Quick Update **

Well I went ahead with the install and my initial results are great. This combination has definately suprised me. A quick review of the build:

AMD Venice 3000+ cooled w/ Zalman 7700Cu
DFI NF4 Ultra D
OCZ 1024MB PC3200 Premier Series 2x512
BFG 6600GT OC
160gb Seagate 7200.7 SATA
BenQ 1604 DVDRW
Antec Sonata II Case w/ 450w Smartpower PSU
Sony Floppy Drive
BenQ FP71G+ 17" LCD
Logitech Internet Pro Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech X-230 speakers
-------------------------
Total Price: $1575CAD including tax & shipping (Apprx $1250US)

Settings -- Prime stable for 4 hours (still running)
--------
CPU -- 278*9 = 2502mhz
Vcore -- 1.44v
DRAM:FSB -- 150:200
Vdimm -- 2.6v
Memory @ 208mhz -- 2.5-3-3-7

For a budget gaming system this build has definately impressed me. The Zalman heatsink was definately a good investment. My temperatures are 26c idle & 39c 100% load (large FFT's test). The Sonata II rear 120mm fan is set to medium (1600rpm I think) and I added a 120mm coolermaster fan taken from my CM stacker and used it as an intake. @ 100% load this thing is still virtually silent.

As for the PSU.... I have yet to check the rails with a multimeter, but I have monitored them extensively in MBM 5. w/ Prime running there is hardly any fluctuation in the rails. The 3v rail stays @ 3.25v, the 5v rail alternates between 4.86 and 4.89v and the 12v rail stays @ 12.21v. I'm not sure how acurate the readings are.... regardless, the voltage does not fluctuate and thats definately a good thing.

The CPU is windows bootable @ 300x9 w/ 1.47v but it would probably take 1.55v or so to get it prime stable. As this is not my system, I do not intend on clocking it higher than 2500mhz. I am very happy w/ a 700mhz overclock w/ only a slight bump in vcore..... my cousin, knowing nothing about computers, is extatic at the way his new system runs UT2004 and Doom 3.

All in all I would say that this build has been a great success and while I dont know how this PSU will stand the test of time, I would not hesitate to recommend this combination of parts to anybody.

-Adrayic

Pretty much as I figured. Venice doesn't draw much power, and the 6600GT is not enormously thirsty. Considering they are each on their own 12V rails, those rails would have to be really weak to have a problem. A 4.5GHz Prescott might well change the balance, but Venice really doesn't load a supply hugely.

Supplies like yours and the AX-500A Fortron are really adequate for basically any Venice system from what I've seen. And while the Fortron might be a bit stronger, it's close enough to where the Smartpower certainly meritted the old college try.