Rant...Viewsonig VP191b... panel changed

Viewsonic needs to stop jacking around with us!

The VP191b panel has changed from that which was review by THG. At one point they changed it to a 8ms gtg panel, 20ms btb.

I WANT THE VP191b THAT THG REVIEWED.

STOP CHANGING PANELS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE SAME MODEL NUMBER! IT'S MISLEADING AND REDICULOUS FROM A MARKETING STANDPOINT!

AND, BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR COLOR ACCURACY! 16.2 dithered or 16.7 ?! We want HONEST data.

Viewsonic..... You are on notice. This community will keep an eye on you!

Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, I hate it when they change specifications on you. It's fine for the non-techies, but for the people that do their research, it's complete bull. Do you plan to keep looking for the earlier revision or just stick with what you have?

I haven't purchased any LCD yet, but I came very close to purchasing the VP191b today. My research efforts revealed the rediculousness of Viewsonic's marketing ploy.

I've even read online the they changed a panel from a glossy glass to the normal type, and didn't change the spec sheet or the model number. The person who wrote this stated that Viewsonic recognized the mistake on their website BUT REFUSED TO ALLOW THE PERSON TO RETURN IT!!! I have no proof of this, but I can't imagine someone making up such a specific complaint with nothing to gain.

Because of their misleading tactics, I will be considering other manufacturers. In my opinion, Viewsonic's credibility is ZERO.

What did they change it to? I was looking at those.

edit:

From what I can tell the 8ms is the 3rd generation VP191b.

The 2nd generation was 16ms, and the 1st VP191b was 25ms. The 8ms ones all have a big 8ms sticker on them AFAIK.

Maybe you were looking at an older one?

I believe that THG reviewed the 16 ms one. It had the curious ability to have a completely flat <16ms response time for ALL color transitions of pixels. It is, in my opinion, the Holy Grail of LCD's. Of course, now, I'll never really see it in action.

If anyone was lucky enough to get one of these, count your blessings.

Same model number for all 3 generations? wtf is that???

JT

MoreGooder said:

I believe that THG reviewed the 16 ms one. It had the curious ability to have a completely flat <16ms response time for ALL color transitions of pixels. It is, in my opinion, the Holy Grail of LCD's. Of course, now, I'll never really see it in action.

If anyone was lucky enough to get one of these, count your blessings.

Click to expand...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050526/index.html

It looks like they reviewed the 8ms one. It's 8ms GTG and 20ms black-white-black.

On a side note:
I got a VP191b that has an 8ms sticker on the box. The only lcd I've seen to compare it to is my friend's Dell 2001FP. His ghosts badly in UT2004, and mine is still slightly noticeable, but definitely playable.

Actually, DaBigJ, it wasn't the 8ms one. If you go to the Latency section of the article (keep clicking, it's not listed in the article's index) you will see the Latency graph for the one I really want:

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050526/viewsonic-05.html

THat's not a 8ms gtg/ 20ms btb panel. That's <16ms for all color transitions! Perfection! What happened to this product, and why is it not being manufactured? Was their sample just a special, super tweaked LCD just to mislead THG?

That's the one with the 8ms sticker on the box. The first page tells you Viewsonic's advertized specs (8ms) - and it's the only overdriven VP191b.

Indeed, that is the 8ms model that THG reviewed. Look at the first page of the review.

"Added to the new formula calculation is ViewSonic's Overdrive technology, which in the panel we tested offers what the vendor says is a GTG latency value of 8 ms"-Toms

Every LCD that I've come across has exagerated by the maker. They claim 8ms which is true in their tests, but since THG does a slightly different(and more accurate to real world) test, it is a little slower.

I did notice that they didn't make any direct reference to the other latency specs. From what I gathered, though, the one they reviewed is 15 ms black-white. Viewsonic's website says the black-white-black latency is 20ms. Maybe that's the difference. It's hard to tell what tomshardware said, but look again and see what you think...

I just wish that they'd be consistent. Since I can't find one of these in a brick-and-morter store, I refuse to buy one and hope that I'll get what THG reviewed.

Ok, so lets assume for a moment that that was the "8" ms panel tha THG reviews. How does that explain THG's test results? Either they are liars, or they don't know how to test their own product. Both may very well be true.

I'm moving on to a different LCD manufacturer, because I am convinced tha Viewsonics specs can't be trusted at all, no matter what sticker they put on their box.

Same can be said for most of the LCD manufactures. It's a game of shirades to them. How they get away with confusing consumers year after year is a testament to either a) how gullible we are or b) how sleezy they are. Take your pick.

Every company I have seen "lies" ,as you put it, in their tests. They use a different testing method(which isnt very close to any real life experiences) on a gray to gray scale, this is not just viewsonic that is decieving thier customers, everyone does it. You have to read reviews like these where they actually test the panels in a more credible way to get any idea of how fast they are. Still the viewsonic vp191b is one of the fastest overall panels on the market today, and to be honest I did worry about getting the wrong one at first, I ordered mine from newegg, and no problems, I got the right panel. If you are really that worried call up the dealer and ask to make sure they know what they are sending you. Discuss your concerns with viewsonics questionable model number system(which I believe they have since fixed) and I doubt you will be dissapointed.

Oh, and you can check which panel it is by looking at the model number, so if you do find it in a store ask them to open it up and check, it should have an 05(year) and the following two numbers is the week, if its after, I believe, week 04, then you have the right one.

Yes, I know that they all lie about their product capabilities. But, if we don't raise this as an issue then how will the manufacturers be convinced to change? If we don't single out the behaviour of one of them, then the general public is quite accepting of this behaviour as status quo. Well, it's NOT normal.

Let's make an analogy. Let's say that Ford motor company says that their new auto can achieve 50 miles per gallon. They produce a few cars that get 50mpg but independent test reveal that to be the case only while going downhill. Hummm.... Do ya think the public would just accept this as normal auto manufacturer behaviour? NO, because a) there are standard tests procedures to determine the correct value for mpg, and b) Ford's competition would have a great time with the news that Ford cheated on their mpg rating.

See the problem? WE are the reason that LCD manufacturers get away with this stupidity. No one sounds the alarm bells, no one makes enough noise, no one singles out the behaviour of a particular LCD manufacturer, and the chirade goes on.

Even if Viewsonic does have a sticker on their box that says 8ms, and that this can be linked to some fine print found by opening the box (which you have to have physically in your hands, btw) to find it, do you believe what the 8ms implies? Of course not. It's artificial data. It's a fabrication. It's disception. It's WRONG. Plain and simple. Consumers should not have to become part-time private investigators to find true performance specifications. If THG can produce a graph showing the response rate across a broad range, then why can't that same exact chart be printed on the box and listed on a website spec sheet? Don't sound card manufacturers provide graphs for the performance of their products? They don't put a sticker on the box that says "-20dB!", because it would be MEANINGLESS. Just like "8ms!" is.

Mhmm, and I agree with every point you just stated. Something does need to be done, but I just dont see it happening . I think they are too stubborn, and the majority of the people are so ill informed of these issues, that they may see the new 16ms TRUE rating and think they are actually slower. The whole market is fudged and there going to have to work pretty hard for me to trust any statements made by the maker in the hardware industry right now.

Viewsonic products are overpriced. I was looking at them for a LCD screen... But a more or less comprabul one from NEC is ~$700 cheaper.