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Microsoft Plans To Stop Supporting The American Economy By Outsourcing

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ZGOZZ

ZGOZZ

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Saturday, September 3rd, 2005 - 12:20am
SEATTLE TIMES / By Brier Dudley - Technology Reporter

MICROSOFT PLANS TO STOP SUPPORTING THE AMERICAN ECONOMY BY OUTSOURCING MORE THAN 10,000 JOBS OVER 10 YEARS TO CHINA

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002468560_msftgoogle03.html


----- ---- --- -- - -
Microsoft is on track to outsource more than 1,000 jobs a year to China, according to blistering evidence released yesterday in Microsoft's increasingly nasty spat with Google over an employee who jumped ship in July.

In a revelation that highlights the complexity of China President Hu Jintao's visit to Seattle and Microsoft on Monday, legal filings detailed claims of how Microsoft had offended the Chinese government by not outsourcing as many jobs as promised to Chinese technology vendors.

COMMENTS AT:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/04/2256208&tid=109&tid=218
 
No big surprise there. If you call for windows activation or support you're talking to someone in India (named "Charrlee"). Most support by the larger companies is being outsourced. I used to work in phone tech support for (the former) Fleet Boston Financial, but sadly my job was outsourced to Canada. Bank of America uses a ton of outsourcing vendors, as does EDS (who owns most of BofA's tech support contract).

The problem is that anyone whose working with a "Charrlee" either via Dell or Compaq tech support or disputing a credit card charge, knows that the service is NOT top notch. Often the combination of untrained technicians or operators, with mediocre Engrish speaking abilities, makes for a long and usually fruitless call. Now SOME companies are seeing the light and have either returned to using Americans or have just refused to outsource their tech support. Fleet was like this until they got bought out.

Most of the companies using overseas labor are probably stuck in contracts, so it will take some time before we start seeing any beneficial return of these jobs to the US. That or we'll just have to suffer. I actually know of a few people that refuse to buy X or Y product because they know the support is going to be lousy. Instead they buy Z from a company known to employ Americans for support. They would rather pay 5% more today than have to deal with the cost of wasted time later on with a frustrating tech support call to India or wherever.

For more useful info on the subject, visit www.techsunite.org
 
Last edited:
Pinky said:
No big surprise there. If you call for windows activation or support you're talking to someone in India (named "Charrlee"). Most support by the larger companies is being outsourced. I used to work in phone tech support for (the former) Fleet Boston Financial, but sadly my job was outsourced to Canada. Bank of America uses a ton of outsourcing vendors, as does EDS (who owns most of BofA's tech support contract).

The problem is that anyone whose working with a "Charrlee" either via Dell or Compaq tech support or disputing a credit card charge, knows that the service is NOT top notch. Often the combination of untrained technicians or operators, with mediocre Engrish speaking abilities, makes for a long and usually fruitless call. Now SOME companies are seeing the light and have either returned to using Americans or have just refused to outsource their tech support. Fleet was like this until they got bought out.

Most of the companies using overseas labor are probably stuck in contracts, so it will take some time before we start seeing any beneficial return of these jobs to the US. That or we'll just have to suffer. I actually know of a few people that refuse to buy X or Y product because they know the support is going to be lousy. Instead they buy Z from a company known to employ Americans for support. They would rather pay 5% more today than have to deal with the cost of wasted time later on with a frustrating tech support call to India or wherever.

For more useful info on the subject, visit www.techsunite.org
Click to expand...

Good point Pinky
 
Can you blame them??

why keep the money in the country that takes them to litigation the most?

that being said, programming is manual labour, and just as mexico go so much of the manual labour in the 80's and 90's india, and china will get it now.

though more companies are starting to move away from out sourcing tech support to non english speaking countries. because of customer complaints.
 
Lots of skilled people in many countries. People that know things, and can speak english.

Contrary to popular belife, within America, American's are not the only inteligent, english speaking people in the world.

Infact there are alot of dumb people, all over the world, and some live in the USA. *gasp* (before you zealous patriots scold me for being anti-american, notice that I said there are dumb people everywhere, including Canada, where I live).

Making the Generalization that "foriegn" tech support is inferior, is a generalization.

Companies, go where they can make the most money. Now poor call centers normally yeild poor results, which means poor profits, so if overseas call centers/ect are so bad, then companies wouldn't be sending work their, because it would be bad for the bottle line, because people would stop supporting those companies due to the atrocious service.
 
Keyword was reasonable...

That really sucks... but it was a matter of time. I think the last 2 times I've had to call and get activated I talked to 2 different people who definitely weren't yanks...
 
mdameron said:
Keyword was reasonable...

That really sucks... but it was a matter of time. I think the last 2 times I've had to call and get activated I talked to 2 different people who definitely weren't yanks...
Click to expand...


Linux is reasonable, so long as you are not a gamer, everyone else could run linux with out many problems and a minimal learning curve. e-mail, and forum posting is the same in both linux and windows
 
mdameron said:
Keyword was reasonable...

That really sucks... but it was a matter of time. I think the last 2 times I've had to call and get activated I talked to 2 different people who definitely weren't yanks...
Click to expand...
Some of those OSes, are not only as good as MSes offerings but better (server environments). And the open source desktop offerings are continually improving. And based on what you use your 'puter for, better as well. Pick the OS that suits your needs.

This has been happening for a long time. Boo hoo. Other people need jobs too.
 
I am a gamer, and I run ArcGIS, which I'm sure has a Mac edition too... but a new license is way beyond reason in the $$$ department :)
 
I have no problem with other counties having jobs. I think exporting everything is not the best way to help support the US.

The only real problem I have with it is the heavy accents that leave me frustarted twice. Once by my problem and the other by not understanding what they are saying. :(

Hell there are times I cant understand a damn word from people in England. It is just more comforting when you can easily understand the person trying to help you. *shrugs*

JT
 
deRusett said:
Linux is reasonable, so long as you are not a gamer, everyone else could run linux with out many problems and a minimal learning curve. e-mail, and forum posting is the same in both linux and windows
Click to expand...

What!? Linux is perfectly resonable for gamers. UT2K4 runs perfectly and natively in Linux. Doom 3 also. Cedega plays Steam perfectly. ArmagetronAD (addictive Tron lightcycle game). Old ports of Doom, Heretic, Hexen, Wolfenstein, etc. America's Army runs natively on Linux. Where do you get the idea that Linux isn't reasonable for a gamer? I deleted and formatted my Windows partition last week because I can run all my games in Linux just fine.
 
deRusett said:
Linux is reasonable, so long as you are not a gamer, everyone else could run linux with out many problems and a minimal learning curve. e-mail, and forum posting is the same in both linux and windows
Click to expand...
The sticking point here I think is the blind reliance on Windows that most corporations/institutions have (possibly due to the easy interface and no-brainer software installs). One instructor of mine demands that nothing but an M$ compiler be used (how he was/is able to tell I still have not found out), another doesn't care which OS we run as long as we can do the assignments.

My IT department will out-of-hand refuse to deal with anything that is not Windows, and a few online courses I took this past summer absolutely required Windows/IE/OE. I never got a reply to the email I sent them asking them what happens if they get a student who only runs Linux.
 
Dreamstalker said:
The sticking point here I think is the blind reliance on Windows that most corporations/institutions have (possibly due to the easy interface and no-brainer software installs). One instructor of mine demands that nothing but an M$ compiler be used (how he was/is able to tell I still have not found out), another doesn't care which OS we run as long as we can do the assignments.

My IT department will out-of-hand refuse to deal with anything that is not Windows, and a few online courses I took this past summer absolutely required Windows/IE/OE. I never got a reply to the email I sent them asking them what happens if they get a student who only runs Linux.
Click to expand...
Some institutions simply want to make things simple, and develope their training and course work for one set standard. KISS. Having a prof or TA know an app perfectly is often better than knowing a few half assed.
 
JTanczos said:
I have no problem with other counties having jobs. I think exporting everything is not the best way to help support the US.
Click to expand...

it isn't the best way to support any country, and if you export too many jobs it becomes self defeating for the company. if all the major tech and heavy industry companies in any given country export all or most of their blue collar and low level white collar (e.g. call center workers) jobs abroad, it means that there are a lot fewer low skill jobs going. this leads to greater unemployment, and ultimately fewer poeple who can afford buy the companies products. many will argue that it helps open up new markets overseas, but this is limited in two ways, first, as nations such as china and india get richer, their citizens become more educated and demand more pay, and the outsourcing is no longer cheaper, but more expensive, as you have to transport the goods. secondly, there are not an unlimited number of 'new' poor nations to exploit as the current batch become wealthier and more developed. so i think that ultimately the short term greed of these companies major shareholders is very destructive, and it is a shame that no one much seems to be interested in long term development or profit. perhaps because a 'want money nowww! attitude prevails, and this is wehere governments must intervene. people and companies need protection from their own greed.
 
9mmCensor said:
Some institutions simply want to make things simple, and develope their training and course work for one set standard. KISS. Having a prof or TA know an app perfectly is often better than knowing a few half assed.
Click to expand...
True. I can also understand the Windows-only trend for the reasons I stated (easy both to use and to monitor) however forcing the use of one browser/mailreader to the utter exclusion of all others (like the online courses I took is doing) is just crazy IMO. Just because one browser/OS is the most widely used among the joe-user populace does not mean that all applicants to the program will use it.
 
Dreamstalker said:
True. I can also understand the Windows-only trend for the reasons I stated (easy both to use and to monitor) however forcing the use of one browser/mailreader to the utter exclusion of all others (like the online courses I took is doing) is just crazy IMO. Just because one browser/OS is the most widely used among the joe-user populace does not mean that all applicants to the program will use it.
Click to expand...
One browser makes developing the site and testing it easier.
 
Welcome to the capitalist economic system, you might have heard of it before.
 
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