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Old 11-19-05, 12:22 AM Thread Starter   #1
Seanohue
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whats this?



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Old 11-19-05, 12:23 AM   #2
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New block?
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Old 11-19-05, 12:30 AM Thread Starter   #3
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i dunno, its either really bad or new cuz ive never heard of it.

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Old 11-19-05, 12:36 AM   #4
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LOL this the latest and greatest from swiftech! it's supposed to outperform the Storm G5 blocks...for those of you who dont know, those were considered the best of the best.

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Old 11-19-05, 12:38 AM Thread Starter   #5
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seriously? Its only $50 lol

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Old 11-19-05, 12:39 AM   #6
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It's pretty much brand new, the inside looks kinda like an MCW5000 with a lot more, smaller diamond-like pins. Despite the outside appearance, the guts are nothing like the storm. The swiftech site makes it look like it beats out the storm with a much lower pressure drop and a lower price... I'm a bit dubious on that, I'll believe it if procooling confirms it...
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Old 11-19-05, 12:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
it's supposed to outperform the Storm G5 blocks
I think you mean Storm G4 blocks

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Old 11-19-05, 12:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanohue
seriously? Its only $50 lol
right now it is not known if it actually beats the storm, cathar had some problems reproducing the results... at any rate i would wait till some independent reviews start to show up
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Old 11-19-05, 11:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedfire101
right now it is not known if it actually beats the storm, cathar had some problems reproducing the results... at any rate i would wait till some independent reviews start to show up

It was an argument on their testbed. From what I recall:

Cathar uses a non-IHS sized test bed
Swiftech uses a IHS sized test bed

Cathars block performs better when cooling a small area (no ihs) is required due to the nature of the jet impingement design.

Swiftechs new block performs better on IHS due to the fact that it's pin fin and has no jets focusing directly on the core, but rather thrives on the larger contact area.

-------

I could be wrong but that's what I remember.

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Old 11-19-05, 04:09 PM   #10
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Well the swiftech Storm block is based on the G5 right?
and this supposedly outperforms the Storm...

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Apogee.asp

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Old 11-19-05, 04:13 PM   #11
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the swiftech storm is based on the G4, and this apogee contraption looks like it may perform in lower flow/pressure systems, but when you have a high end system, the Storm will still take a crap on it


trust me, if a diamond pin matrix was better than cathar's jet cup design, he would've never made the storm/g4/g5; he would've made a block based on the diamond pin matrix


edit: plus the core is only under part of the IHS - it doesn't cover the whole surface area of the IHS, so something is definitely flawed in swiftech's testing with the apogee vs. the storm

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Old 11-19-05, 04:40 PM   #12
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here i though cpu waterblocks were at top performance. it is really interesting how swiftech went with a simple design that looks easy to produce i cant wait for some other reviews.

i wonder if the apogee will be better for dual cores with the bigger cooling area? or how the g7 will compare? im just thinking way to ahead of myself.

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Old 11-19-05, 04:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnt by pat
Cathar uses a non-IHS sized test bed
Swiftech uses a IHS sized test bed

qft

Quote:
Originally Posted by cathar
Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
i say we support Cathar all the way. A lot of the design of the new block was inspired by the storm and Cathar. Of course this is just all speculation. I do feel that Swiftech is trying to make a statement that "can we make a block that's better or matches what Cathar can make...and mass produce it at an affordable price."
Nah, this is not about Swiftech vs Cathar at all. We're all good friends and on good terms.

This is primarilly about Swiftech wanting to refresh their bread and butter budget block lineup, being the MCW600x.

As the data states, the Storm beats it handily on the small die setup and there are, or at least I firmly believe this, "issues" with their present large die testbed. Swiftech and I have discussed their large die testbed in the past at length. We have compared notes. Swiftech stands by their large-die testbed. I have not been able to reproduce the results they see with it for other blocks when monitoring the CPU die temperature of IHS capped CPU's, as opposed to the IHS surface temperature. Who's right? I can't say. What I can say is that without knowing the actual CPU die temperature, then you can never be truly sure, and so independent testing is required to color in the bigger picture.

The Apogee, at least from what is shown in the captured images, looks to my eye to be a very decent design, and certainly meets Swiftech's needs for a good-to-high performance moderately priced mainstream waterblock, and on that score it's a "win". As to the relative performance at the end of the day, Swiftech is just reporting what they see with their testbed, and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do for any company.

I personally would've played the cards differently. Given that the Storm is still on the shelves, and that there is some doubt about the performance, even within their own testing (small vs large die), and the Storm is still selling well and the Apogee is an unproven design, I would not have released internal performance results nor would I have dropped the price on the Storm, and I would've just marketed the Apogee as their MCW600x replacement. By the time the independent testers and the marketplace have figured it all out, the stock of left-over Storm blocks would've mostly been sold at their full asking price, and if the Apogee truly performs better according to independent tests, then just discontinue the Storm and publish the internal results. If the Storm is found to be better, then Swiftech wouldn't have to lose any face over the published results. Would've been win-win whichever way it played out.

Just my 2c, since people here are asking about it. I don't understand the actions of the last few weeks myself, but Swiftech is not my company. I have enjoyed working with them though, and I do hope to continue doing so, in whatever capacity that turns out to be from here on.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...ghlight=cathar

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