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am i cheating? ppd boost by folding (only) tinkers

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yanz

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2004
Location
West Java, ID
Like the title said. I find out that if i set in the the config: [clienttype] type=2, i'll only deal with tinkers all the way. That means my ppd grow from ~110ppd to ~230ppd (on 2x xp1700 & maybe more..).

I know that client type 2 is for timeless machine. Did i fold unimportant proteins if i set my rigs as timeless machines?

If you were me, would you set all your rigs to get the most ppd or be fair with it and set half the rigs for normal protein and half others for tinkers (239-241pt)?


I want to help stanford and its urgent project. But i want the points too. been doing this for 2-3 weeks, i tink i will change my rigs as 50-50 (normal vs timeless).

What do you guys think about it?
 
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iit is something I personally would not advocate. Many people in many forums are doing just that. Those many computers are now overtaxing the 2 servers dedicated to Timeless WU's (Tinkers at the moment). Those 2 servers are all the time empty now.

Even though PPD is very important to some of us... dont' lose sight that it isn't the points that matter... it is the potential research that is what matters.
 
Yes, what Frank said. When you fold timeless tinkers it leaves little left for the machines that can't fold normal WUs in the time given.
If you want non-timeless tinkers, you could switch to the google client which, AFAIK, only gets tinkers.
 
Hmmm, so type 2 configs requests only "timeless"(Tinkers)...all my config's are type 1, which I guess is just whatever gets handed out at random? Are there other config types as well?

I just run the 5.04 console client, choosing BP's for 1 client and "no big packets" for my second client(on my SMP rigs) even tho' most of them have a gig of RAM or better.
 
yanz said:
Like the title said. I find out that if i set in the the config: [clienttype] type=2, i'll only deal with tinkers all the way. That means my ppd grow from ~110ppd to ~230ppd (on 2x xp1700 & maybe more..).
I know that client type 2 is for timeless machine. Did i fold unimportant proteins if i set my rigs as timeless machines?
If you were mine, would you set all your rigs to get the most ppd or be fair with it and set half the rigs for normal protein and half others for tinkers (239-241pt)?
I want to help stanford and its urgent project. But i want the points too. been doing this for 2-3 weeks, i tink i will change my rigs as 50-50 (normal vs timeless).
What do you guys think about it?

I'm basically just going to reiterate what THF said. It is okay to run faster machines on TTs to get more points, but I would definitely not recommend that you do so. The thing is, there is a limited supply of the timeless units. When you have fast machines folding them, they will run down much faster and run out. If the servers with TTs on them run out, then the computers set to them will get no wus.
The timeless units were put in place for computers that are too slow to meet the deadlines of normal wus. They are not as vital to the science as the normal wus are, thus allowing Stanford to assign them as having no deadlines. They are still very important for the project, just sometimes starting a wu based off of one protein will require having another protein's wus completed and researched first. The normal wus do not rely on the proteins used in the timeless wus, though they are still important.
If the timeless units run out, the slower machines will have nothing left to fold, as they cannot meet deadlines on other wus. That would result in a slow down of the project overall as those machines are not doing anything, when they could have been doing something if the units had not run out.

I myself have a computer folding TTs, the thing is, it is a Celeron 466 @ 546. It is too slow to meet deadlines on most projects. When/if TTs run out, it will do nothing and I may as well turn it off. I did have a Duron @ 1.9GHz folding TTs as well. That was because it did not have regular net access, so I set it to batch mode to download eight units at a time. It now has constant net access, so it is running normal wus despite my drop in ppd.

It is not cheating, it just may be unfair in the long run to those who have slower machines that actually need the units without deadlines. I would rather people not fold these work units if the computer can meet deadlines on the normal units.
Sorry about the long post, but that is my opinion on it all.


Edit:
ihrsetrdr said:
Hmmm, so type 2 configs requests only "timeless"(Tinkers)...all my config's are type 1, which I guess is just whatever gets handed out at random? Are there other config types as well?
Type 2 configs get the units without deadlines, which are almost always tinkers. I don't remember them ever being anything else. A type 1 config is the normal configuration. A client setup this way gets basically whatever wus are available at the point that it downloads the wu, but the percentage of the wu's deadline remaining and the flags of the client are also factors in what the client gets assigned (the flags being the most obvious). I don't remember if the benchmark that the client does when starting affects what wus the client receives or not. 1 and 2 are the only types of configs.
 
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After thinking again, i decide to set all my machine back to mormal (client type =1). I want to help the project, but its no point if i hurt the others who want to help too. I hope nobody will follow what i've done. :)

Glad that i asked. You guys have gave the information i need. I always feel that something wasn't right from the start. I didn't know before that the timeless wu's could be running out from the server, and more than that the current project now is so urgent.

Now i know.

Thanks. You guys are the best team in the world. I kinda tempted to join back this team, maybe someday. But now i have to take my position in my national team.

Thanks again. :)
 
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You're probably not that odd, but those that only care about the points are gamers not folders. :)

IMHO, timeless WUs should be left for the rigs that need them. Old slow rigs and rigs without net access. The timeless servers have run out three times this year and have been overloaded on many occassions.
 
i must admit that running TT's did up my production, but i have since put 90% back to "normal". i drew my line @ 1GHz and lower = TT's; so i still have 4x rigs on TT's.

PS
ChasR, dont forget about "Benchers", we like our #'s just as much as (if not more than) "Gamers" :p ;)
 
If it makes you feel any better, ChasR, I'm only setting timeless on rigs that aren't 24/7 and slow procs at this time. :rolleyes: I'm not feeling all that evil right now. :p
 
@Max,
Most of us are gamers to a degree, myself included. My distaste for running Timeless WUs on machines that don't need them is rooted in self interest (the gamer side) as much as in science. I have a fleet of old p2 400 MHz machines (used as unix terminals and for a piece of dos software I don't want to part with) that can contribute 300 ppd, if there are timeless WUs and almost nothing if there aren't any, as has often been the case with the rise in the number of fast rigs folding timeless WUs. I also have a P-M laptop with very limited net access (it's in Iraq) that depends on getting WUs in batches.

On the science side, timeless WUs by their very nature produce results far slower and with many more duplicated WUs.

I wouldn't say it's evil to fold Timeless WUs on a fast machine, just too far to the gamer side for me (and counter to my own interests). :)
 
I've got a question:

What if I borg a machine that is only on for a few hours a day, set to TT, and then lose the borg? What happens to the WU? If it is truly timeless, will it be lost completely?
 
ChasR said:
@Max,
Most of us are gamers to a degree, myself included. My distaste for running Timeless WUs on machines that don't need them is rooted in self interest (the gamer side) as much as in science. I have a fleet of old p2 400 MHz machines (used as unix terminals and for a piece of dos software I don't want to part with) that can contribute 300 ppd, if there are timeless WUs and almost nothing if there aren't any, as has often been the case with the rise in the number of fast rigs folding timeless WUs. I also have a P-M laptop with very limited net access (it's in Iraq) that depends on getting WUs in batches.

On the science side, timeless WUs by their very nature produce results far slower and with many more duplicated WUs.

I wouldn't say it's evil to fold Timeless WUs on a fast machine, just too far to the gamer side for me (and counter to my own interests). :)


You sir, would make a fine diplomat. Can we schedule you for the next peace talks?
 
Max0r said:
Should -advmethods and bigpackets=yes be set for TT machines?
You don't need any flags for the TT machines. All you have to change is the client type in the config file or by running the console with -config or -configonly and have it receive units without deadlines.
If you run -advmethods on a client setup as type 2, it will ignore the type 2 and go back to getting the normal units with deadlines. Bigpackets=yes does not make a difference that I know of.
 
Misfit138 said:
I've got a question:

What if I borg a machine that is only on for a few hours a day, set to TT, and then lose the borg? What happens to the WU? If it is truly timeless, will it be lost completely?

Once it goes past the prefered deadline, it will be reissued. When you do finally turn it in, you may still get credit for it, if it's still an active project.
 
Ahh no wonder that Athlon XP got a jumbo DG WU even though I set timeless. But it is due July 7 so I think it has plenty of time even with its majority downtime. I'll turn off BP/adv. Thanks guys ^_^
 
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