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Old 01-14-06, 03:25 PM Thread Starter   #1
Crana
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Annoyed [rant]


My friend asked me to look at his computer because it was running slow and stuff aswell as Norton had expired, so i went over and did the usual, checked for spyware (Found s**t loads of it, including a few dialers, lucky he has broadband) then i unistalled Norton and installed AVG Free Edition and Kerio Personal Firewall in its place (IMO They are better anyway). I also replaced IE with FF. But his Dad doesnt trust me at all and he invites the local handy man to come check it out the day after i cleaned things up (Removed alot of spyware, no viruses and delete all his history..). So he tells me today that the dude says everything i did was stupid... FireFox is crap (I couldnt believe he said that) AVG is useless, as is Kerio... So he told his dad that he should go out and buy another year's subscription with Norton, which he did...

Am I the only one that thinks Kerio and AVG are better than Norton to start with?

So basically im made out to look like a computer n00b as far as his parents are conserned, which annoys me, because someone who thinks IE is better then FF surley can't know too much about PC's...



EDIT: Does anyone know a link for a website that shows the best AV/FW ? I saw one once but ive forgoten it. The reason is because i want to prove the guy wrong with evidence

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Old 01-14-06, 03:40 PM   #2
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Old 01-14-06, 04:08 PM Thread Starter   #3
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Seems im an idiot then... Norton is actually better according to that chart ehhh, im a previous Norton A/V user myself and switching to AVG proved a good thing to me

Well, i guess because AVG is free it is better then Norton, but i still think my friend would only need a free A/V. Showing that chart would make me look like a fool, so i think i'll just tell him i couldnt find it

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Old 01-14-06, 04:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Am I the only one that thinks Kerio and AVG are better than Norton to start with?
Nope. Norton might find a couple more virii, but AVG is free and consumes significantly less resources. I go with AVG in pretty much every scenario, especially since it requires no action on the user's part to update and scan. Very easy solution.

You did everything right. Convincing parents can be the tough part...it happens on occasion, especially if you're younger. How old are you?

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Old 01-14-06, 04:38 PM Thread Starter   #5
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15, the guy is like 35 or something

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Old 01-14-06, 05:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crana
Seems im an idiot then... Norton is actually better according to that chart ehhh, im a previous Norton A/V user myself and switching to AVG proved a good thing to me

Well, i guess because AVG is free it is better then Norton, but i still think my friend would only need a free A/V. Showing that chart would make me look like a fool, so i think i'll just tell him i couldnt find it
Don't forget the comments about Norton on page 2 of the article

"Norton 2005 is ironic - much like viruses, it brings down to its knees even the fastest computers! A true resource hog! "

Couldn't be a more accurate statement about norton from my experience. Nuking norton and putting any other AV program on people's computer is one of the quickest ways to speed a computer back up. As long as you can get the Norton uninstall to work correctly, most viruses are easier to remove from people's systems!

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Old 01-14-06, 05:57 PM   #7
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Is Free worth the risk of getting your computer infected? i would rather use some exta resources on my 3ghz CPU and 1g of ram then risk getting infected and having to spend hours / days to fix it

You do get what you pay for!

but i dont use norton either - i use kapersky

the computer repair person is a moron - send him to this forum please and the guys dad cause he obviously has no clue and gets sucked in my marketing and idiot repair men.

Find some site on the benefit of FF / Opera over IE

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Old 01-14-06, 07:02 PM   #8
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Sounds like a complete ******. Firefox is indeed better than IE in many ways. It has a better codebase than IE, better support CSS and so on, Active X isn't installed on it, buillt in Pop Up blocker what actually works now (Didn't work properly in 1.0.5 and prior to that).

Bleh, you get idiots like this all the time dude, live with it.

My friends dad asks me for advice, but he always goes back on it. For example, i told him a P4 was better than a Celeron at the same clock speed, but he bought the bought the Celeron because it was 5 cheaper :S (some good deal with a Pentium 4 awhile back).

Makes me angry, i don't want a person asking what they should get if they are going to ignore it and do the complete opposite.
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Old 01-14-06, 07:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
15, the guy is like 35 or something
At your age, that's kinda how it goes. It sucks.

Quote:
Is Free worth the risk of getting your computer infected? i would rather use some exta resources on my 3ghz CPU and 1g of ram then risk getting infected and having to spend hours / days to fix it
Average Joe with a 1.8a Northwood and 256mb of RAM isn't in the same shoes. Between Bonzi Buddy and Norton, that system is paging just to open up IE. Kaspersky doesn't hog resources like Norton does...I'd take AVG over Norton in almost any situation. Sure, Norton finds a few weird virii that AVG doesn't, but the odds of you getting those fringe infections is pretty low to begin with. Add some Firefox/Opera and a half decent firewall on top of that, and it doesn't really make a difference, IMO. If you've got very expensive data on a server type system...well, that's a different scenario in which you have both the need and the resources for something a little more robust.

Also, I'll take automatic and free AVG updates over Joe Blow's 6-month-expired Symantec definitions.

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Old 01-14-06, 09:01 PM   #10
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I personally use Kaspersky since i think its one of the best out there.

I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE PEOPLE WHO ASK FOR YOUR ADVICE AND THEN GO BACK ON IT.

this is very annoying. I know how you feel. Just forget about it. They wasted their money and lost. AVG is not bad, norton is a resource hog. I would rather have avg over norton anyday.

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Old 01-14-06, 09:28 PM   #11
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You know you might dislike FF and all but IE does things FF can't sometimes. Some sites need IE to run properly and thats just a fact of life. So in some cases, just leaving IE the way it is, and having FF as a secondary browser is just fine. Remember this is not you this is him, and switching things on people is not always the greatest thing to do. Expecially if there really picky of what they want on the computer or not.

As for norton, it does a decent job. I've used it for many many years and have had very very limited viruses. Although it is a resource hog, its easy to setup and once its setup its done, no need really to mess with it. Thats the joy of it for people that don't like messing with the stuff unlike us. The comes back to the guys used the program for ages and enjoys it.

What you might want to do is tell him why you selected these pieces of software. I know I've been in your shoes sometimes where I install something for them and its gone next month when I come over to fix it. Its a fact of life, you got to really tell them why its important, what it does, and how it helps them out in the long run. And since your younger, you might not have his confidence since he might think he knows more, don't get angry just try explaining it to him in a mature aditude.

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Old 01-14-06, 09:50 PM   #12
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My advice for this is to stay out; tell him sorry, you should have asked first. No, that isn't saying he was right, but better than a argument that you won't win. It will end in a pointless argument and he will intentionaly seperate you two.
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Old 01-14-06, 10:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deathman20
You know you might dislike FF and all but IE does things FF can't sometimes. Some sites need IE to run properly and thats just a fact of life. So in some cases, just leaving IE the way it is, and having FF as a secondary browser is just fine. Remember this is not you this is him, and switching things on people is not always the greatest thing to do. Expecially if there really picky of what they want on the computer or not.

As for norton, it does a decent job. I've used it for many many years and have had very very limited viruses. Although it is a resource hog, its easy to setup and once its setup its done, no need really to mess with it. Thats the joy of it for people that don't like messing with the stuff unlike us. The comes back to the guys used the program for ages and enjoys it.

What you might want to do is tell him why you selected these pieces of software. I know I've been in your shoes sometimes where I install something for them and its gone next month when I come over to fix it. Its a fact of life, you got to really tell them why its important, what it does, and how it helps them out in the long run. And since your younger, you might not have his confidence since he might think he knows more, don't get angry just try explaining it to him in a mature aditude.

There aren't many sites that don't work on firefox, especially since there has been a movement to make sites more alternate browser friendly. IE would be my tertiary browser for those odd errant sites. I like firefox's popup blocker and security features.
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Old 01-14-06, 10:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckj
There aren't many sites that don't work on firefox, especially since there has been a movement to make sites more alternate browser friendly. IE would be my tertiary browser for those odd errant sites. I like firefox's popup blocker and security features.
Not saying FF isn't great at all its just that if the guy does basic things, why switch his browser needs if the guy likes IE. If he doesn't have an issue with it theres no need to switch it unless he wants it too. And yes I do enjoy FF quiet a bit, but truely I only use it for the tabbed browsing, otherwise I'd still use IE since I have never had a single issue with it. Just sounded like crana just made him switch to FF without him knowing about it really, and a guy that probably doesn't know much about computers I'm sure he was a little concerned.

As for sites Microsofts update is a pretty big site, and we all well know that IE will be the one and only for that one unless a court order makes them have it other browser friendly. If its one thing they will do to promote there product that is definatly the site they will win with hehe.

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Old 01-15-06, 01:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
As for sites Microsofts update is a pretty big site, and we all well know that IE will be the one and only for that one unless a court order makes them have it other browser friendly. If its one thing they will do to promote there product that is definatly the site they will win with hehe.
That's the only site I can think of, and most people don't even know it exists - they just let XP download the updates automatically. I've installed FF on my family's computer and on a couple of computers I've done maintenance on, and these are the type of people who are very typical when it comes to computers - they just want it to work, and don't know how to fix things. I haven't gotten a single complaint from anyone - most don't even notice the change. FF is essential, in my opinion, to keeping an average computer free of spyware.

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Old 01-15-06, 01:42 AM   #16
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Good god, Symantec loves to play "Operating system". My mom has this Symantec thing on her lappy and it just takes over the entire system. "The website is going to connect to some DNS, do you give a crap?" NO! All over the place, stupid popups and questions.
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Old 01-15-06, 01:47 AM Thread Starter   #17
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The thing is though, he doesnt want Norton for the simple fact that it slows everything down and tells him he's just been protected from hackers every 2 seconds. He likes FF for the pop up blocker thing but he thinks AVG "looks cheap" anyway

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Old 01-15-06, 09:34 AM   #18
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Computer illiterates "get used" to Internet Explorer so they can't switch to Firefox regardless of anything else...


As for the other question, taken from this thread:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=410379

my post:


1. Here's my understanding of sir_LOIN's article, highlights:
Norton 2005 is ironic - much like viruses, it brings down to its knees even the fastest computers! A true resource hog!
Kaspersky 5 revealed that when it comes to Trojans, exotic and rare viruses, Kaspersky is the leader of the pack. It found some that none of the others did.
PC-cillin has also been doing great...although I find Kaspersky slightly better in terms of scanning.
AntiVir PersonalEdition Classic 6 found the most viruses.

So even though sir_LOIN clearly says "AntiVir PersonalEdition Classic 6 found the most viruses," he continues to conclude that "Kaspersky is ... the best antivirus of them all. It's been doing great in my tests for years, it isn't a resource hog like Norton and it has a knack for finding things no other one does. This is the one that's running on my computers."


Well I got a hold of a lot of them and run them separately. After updating their definitions, I found out that ONLY AntiVir PersonalEdition Classic 6 found five .exe files on my computer that were:
Trojan horse TR/FlashKiller.C
Trojan horse TR/ShareAll
Trojan horse TR/Dldr.Delf.BR.3
Trojan horse TR/Dldr.Delf.BR.3
Trojan horse TR/Dldr.Delf.BR.3

Norton didn't find them, neither did Kaspersky, PC-cillin or McAfee. Neither did Trend Micro PC-cillin Online Scan. Neither did Kaspersky Online Scan. I specifically scanned the infected .exe files. ewido didn't find them either.


So this AntiVir PersonalEdition Classic 6 turns out to be really something. Granted, it would have a nice graphical user interface... if we were still using Windows 3.1. It is u-g-l-y, but damn: the notion that I had Trojan horses sitting on my personal system... ugh.


2. What's the procedure to report viruses to the developers of AntiVirus software, did you do it? I cannot believe official web pages do not encourage or even have instructions for people to submit viruses those programs failed to detect. Is that not the #1 thing developers would be interested in?

I mean, look at this crap:

Me: What's the procedure to report a virus that another anti-virus program found but Norton AntiVirus failed to detect please?

Symantec: For the ultimate protection we strongly recommend that you upgrade to Norton Internet Security 2006. Norton Internet Security 2006 not only will protect you from viruses, it will also protect you from phising (sic) attacks, hackers, adware and spyware and other emerging security threats.

Symantec offers any new Norton product at a reduced upgrade price for its prior customers. To view your upgrade purchase options, please visit the Symantec Store Upgrade Center online.


Wonderful! Who said I wasn't already using the 2006 version?

3. Well I wasn't, I was using the 2003 version, but no other Norton version detects these anyway, I am now running AntiVir 6 on top of Norton 2003. When I click on a folder that contains a virus Norton can recognize, Norton reports it.
When I click on a folder that contains 5 Trojans I found, AntiVir reports it (AntiVir doesn't use up resources much it seems.)

4. Please find attached sir_LOIN's rankings posted clearly.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by c627627; 01-15-06 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 01-15-06, 09:43 AM   #19
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Excerpts from what I wrote for myself about Firefox:

* Start Menu > Run... >
firefox.exe -profilemanager > OK
Create Profile... > Next > Enter new profile name & Choose Folder location > Finish >
make sure the newly created profile name is selected > Start Firefox.

Repeat procedure for the other operating system, selecting the same profile name folder location.

If you've already set everything up but would like to move the existing setup to this new folder for easier backup, simply copy contents of your profile folder found in

Windows 2000/XP: C:\Documents and Settings\<Windows login/user name>\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<Profile name>\
Windows 2000/XP: %APPDATA%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<Profile name>\

Windows 9x/Me: C:\Windows\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\<Profile name>\
Windows 9x/Me: C:\Windows\Profiles\<Windows login/user name>\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<Profile name>\

Windows NT 4.x: C:\Winnt\Profiles\<Windows login/user name>\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\<Profile name>\

Unix: ~/.mozilla/firefox/<Profile name>/

Mac OS X: ~/Library/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/<Profile name>/
Mac OS X: ~/Library/Application Support/Mozilla/Firefox/Profiles/<Profile name>/

-------------------------------------

Start Firefox and type
about:config
into the address bar and press return.

Scroll down to
browser.download.manager.showAlertOnComplete
double click on it and set its value to false.
so that you don't get an extra pop-up window *every time, every file* is downloaded.

Scroll down to
keyword.URL
double click on it and change its value to
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=
so that the address bar can double as a google search bar

Then create a new entry by right clicking on an empty space > New > Integer > name it network.http.phishy-userpass-length
> OK > give it a value of 255 > OK
otherwise the phishing safeguard will disaply a message *every time* you click on a link of the type:
http://usernameassword@www...
The message will read: "You are about to log into the site "www...." with the username "...", but the website does not require authentication. This may be an attempt to trick you. Is "www..." the site you want to visit?"

-------------------------------------

* Open FTP links (only) with Internet Explorer since Firefox can't copy-paste into FTP pages without add-ons:

Start Menu > Run... > regedit
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\ftp\shell\open \command
Double click on Default > Value Data:
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe "%1"

-------------------------------------

Firefox allows you to prevent URLs from being saved in the pull-down menu for the Location Bar. This restriction helps protect user privacy and prevent users from "stumbling" into sites that other users had previously viewed. Simply set HISTORY.DAT (which is where your default profile is) to read only. This also disables history of visited pages.

-------------------------------------

To Make Webdings and Wingdings symbol fonts available, open this file with Notepad:
C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\res\fonts\fontEncoding.properties

and add the following under # Symbol font

encoding.symbol.ttf = windows-1252
encoding.wingdings.ttf = windows-1252
encoding.wingdings2.ttf = windows-1252
encoding.wingdings3.ttf = windows-1252
encoding.webdings.ttf = windows-1252

-------------------------------------

'Bookmarks Toolbar Folder' can't be deleted but you can set any folder you don't wish to delete as the Bookmarks Toolbar Folder:

Bookmarks > Manage Bookmarks > Select any other folder in your Bookmarks >
Edit > Set as Bookmarks Toolbar Folder

Now you can delete the Bookmarks Toolbar Folder.

-------------------------------------
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Old 01-15-06, 09:44 AM   #20
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I also got used to Internet Explorer.

But these solved that problem:


auto_copy_0.6.0.xpi
(Selected text is automaticaly copied to the clipboard.)
http://autocopy.mozdev.org/
--------------

clonewindow_0.2.6.xpi
(CTRL+N opens a new window with same content.)
http://www.pikey.me.uk/mozilla/?extension=cw
--------------

dictionarysearch_1.5.xpi
(Looks up a user selected word in an online dictionary.)
https://addons.update.mozilla.org/ex...=Windows&id=68
--------------

ext2abc_0.4.xpi
(Arrange Tools > Extensions alphabetically.)
http://roachfiend.com/archives/2005/03/06/ext2abc/
--------------

favicon_picker_0.3.1.xpi
(Set bookmark link icons.)
https://addons.mozilla.org/extension...okmarks&id=325
--------------

ie_view_1.2.7.xpi
(Open current page or a selected link in Internet Explorer.)
https://addons.mozilla.org/extension...cation=firefox
http://ieview.mozdev.org/
--------------

imagezoom_0.2.2.xpi
(Zoom in & out of any picture.)
http://imagezoom.yellowgorilla.net/
--------------

java_1.4.2_09.xpi
(Java Runtime Environment, disable Firewall to install;
Custom install > UNCHECK: Microsoft Internet Explorer, select only Mozila and/or Netscape.)
http://java.sun.com/update/1.4.2/j2r...ndows-i586.xpi
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html
--------------

linkification_1.1.6.xpi
(View plain text of a web address as an actual link.)
http://www.beggarchooser.com/firefox/
--------------

mapit_0.7.1.xpi
(Get a street map or directions to selected text address.)
http://www.brunson.com/mapit.html
http://mapit.mozdev.org/files.html
--------------

menuedit_1.2.xpi
(Edit Firefox right click menus.)
http://menueditor.mozdev.org/
--------------

mozilla_archive_format_0.6.3.xpi
(Save web pages in a single file.)
http://maf.mozdev.org/installation.html
--------------

sidebar_switcher_0.4.xpi
(Change the size of sidebar windows such as the history sidebar window)
Min:0 Standard:200 Max:1250
http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/index.php?showtopic=181
--------------

1spellbound_0.7.3.xpi
2spellbound-lib-win32_0.8.1.xpi
3spell-en-US.xpi
(All three should be installed at once, then restart for spell checker to work.)
http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/index
--------------

textlink_0.2.xpi
(Plain Text Links: right click on selected plain text url and open it in a new window.)
http://ted.mielczarek.org/code/mozilla/
--------------

webdeveloper_0.9.4.xpi
(Disable images, jave etc., with one click, toolbar parts can be moved around when customizing bar look.)
http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/
--------------

Last edited by c627627; 01-15-06 at 09:58 AM.
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