Phase change vs Tec which one better?

Hi guys,

I am in the middle of decide which to go for. Phase Change or Tec? which one yield best performance?

I know Phase change yield sub-zero degree but it takes up alot of space and costly in a long run.

TEC not as good as phase change but it's compact and not require alot of space.

I am a noob in this. can anyone let me know what the Pro and Con for both.

Thanks

well, since i havnt ever done either i can only offer a little info. from what i gather tecs are more expensive to run. and you have to have an adequate water cooling setup to cool the tec. whereas do it yourself phase change can be cheaper but plenty of work. and buying premade phase change can be very expensive.

well because ive looked at the same thing you have, but havent acted, ill share what i have learned. first tecs and phasae chnge both offer sub zero temps. however to use a tec. you must also have a rather nice watercooling setup. as for the phase change. you can build it yourself for im guessing close to that of a tec+highend water. but the killer is truelly that the price to RUN the phase change is the same as pluging in a Ac or refirge thats opened alot. while the tec...... it eats alot of power so your looking at simmiler coasts if youre building and well semi simmler run coast IF you set them up right(or wrong in the case of phase) but you must rember that phase takes up more space but offers way lower temps. and a tec though is about the size of a WC setup doesnt get as cold. one last note. a tec setup is easer to convert to another setup, case is basicly WC whith 3-4 extra parts. well i hope that helps, i know for me im going to go phase, moastly cause i want more extream cooling with out it coasting as much to run. well its up to you and good luck
3vil
p.s. this is jsut from what ive read it might be backwards in a few spots

ive been there and done both.

TEC cooling will not provide as low a temperature as phase...phase wins

since you have to go through the process of insulation for both...phase wins

TEC cooling is less efficient than phase...phase wins
(you will pay more electric bill wise to run a TEC)

although the TEC itself is small, you will need a separate PSU to run a TEC so you have to factor that into the size thing along with a larger than average radiator setup to cool the water that the TEC heats up.


TEC's are fun to play with but in the long run, go phase.

GOOD LUCK!!

Revivalist said:

1. You can cool both the CPU and video card with it. I have personally seen great performance gains with a TEC on my video card as well. However, a phase change unit can only be used on the CPU. (Very few people have gone to the expense and trouble of putting a phase change unit on their video card as well.) People with phase change units that also want to extreme cool their video card usually end up getting a TEC setup for the video card anyways.

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In most cases, yes. However, with a liquid chiller such as mine, you can cool both the CPU and GPU concurrently to extremely cold temperatures, far colder than you'll ever see a pelt hit.

Revivalist said:

2. It is more compact. A TEC setup can be placed completely inside a full-size ATX case so the computer is still portable. (It's definitely heavier but it's still portable.) A system with a phase change unit is usually not portable since it could be difficult and risky to try to move the computer and the phase change unit together.

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You're correct there. Skilled phase change builders can fit full systems inside normal sized cases (Check out Zork's system, IIRC he's got TWO in a case.) But those are more the exception than the rule. DIY phase changers usually tend to have a mess of a test bench. For compactness and practicality a watercooled TEC system is usually a better choice, which is why I was considering one a long time ago myself. Ended up deciding that looks, noise and size don't matter to me. What ever floats your boat.

Revivalist said:

3. It can save more power. For daily use you can turn off the TEC and still get good temps due to the water-cooling. I usually get 35C idle, 45C load on the CPU and 40C idle, 60C load on the video card when the TECs are both off. For daily use I usually leave them off. For gaming and benchmarking I turn them on and get -2C idle, 18 load on the CPU and <31C idle and load on the video card (I don't know exact temps because the card doesn't report below 31). So leaving the Meanwell off most of the time is a good way to save on the electric bill. I don't think you can turn off a phase change unit while the computer is running.

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This only pertains to chillers pretty much, but I can shut mine off or run it on a thermostat. After its pull down is complete, I can have subzero temps for around 6 hours in near dead silence with no power drawn.

Revivalist said:

4. It's cheaper. I believe a good phase change unit is around $900. A good water-cooled TEC setup will probably run you about $450 ($50 CPU waterblock with TEC, $70 GPU waterblock with TEC, $80 radiator, $80 pump, $50 fans, $85 Meanwell PSU, $20 tubes and coolant, $15 reservoir). And remember that you would be cooling the video card as well for that price.

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People that build their own systems usually pay a bit less than this. The tools often comprise a large amount of the costs though.

I just converted an A/C so my needs weren't very aggressive.

$55-Eheim 1250 + 15ft of Tygon
$35-Swiftech MCW6002-P
$40-Swiftech MCW50 (Was purchased two and half years ago)
$70-Kenmore 5150BTU A/C
$10-Armaflex tape (neoprene insulation)
$33-3 gal denatured alcohol
$6-2 gal windshield wiper fluid
=$249

Revivalist [U said:

5. No coldbug.[/U] I could be wrong about this but I don't think anyone has had a cold bug problem with a TEC-setup. However, with a phase change unit some CPUs just don't want to boot.

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Well this is true, although technically some of the latest A64's don't like the sort of temps pelts would provide either. Though there are very very few procs out there that would cold bug on a Vapo LS/Mach II.

Pelts have always appealed to me despite the bad rap they usually get. Honestly though, the only reason I was considering them was because I have a Dothan. I wouldn't personally run one on a dual core A64 or P4, even a single is sort of pushing it. If the needs aren't as extreme though, TECs can make for very fast and practical systems, but now that procs are pushing beyond the 200W range, they won't even be an option for long.

go phase

tec always seemed a little bit ghetto to me

phase ftw

TEC is only good if you have allready purchased a high end water cooling.

Else phase just rocks its socks - more efficent, colder.

Go phase. I was in the same position a while ago, but the marginal benefits of using a TEC compared to it's cost (extra power supply, new waterblock & rad) was not worth it for me.

If I had to do it all over again, I would of just skipped watercooling and saved the money towards a phase change system.

OK, I have to say...
Phase change is the way to extremely cold temps but, unless you use a thermostat, as joe suggests, you'll run up a light bill higher than if you had three of your current systems running FAH or Prime95 24/7.
I'm personally going to say pelt because i just invested alot of time and a few dollars setting up a custom pelt rig for my XP-M. Custom-sized oxygen-free copper block encased in lexan with 1/2" barbs, specifically designed for the best delta T from my TEC setup, 6 core radiator which can fit 4 120mm fans on it, Eheim pump, but i may get a DD5 and run it off the meanwell PSU. 3/8" oxygen-free copper coldplate seems to be the best for me right now.
Take your pick, either pelts or phase, initial could be expensive (custom block cost me $80.00 alone, before the lexan cover).