Interesting discussion regarding Conroe, Woodcrest, Merom and AM2

I was cruising the net when I came across this forum inwhich the users there seem to have a bit more insight and information regarding conroe, merom, woodcrest and Am2. I am usually not a avid reader of 8 pages of posts but the info/predeiction presented sparked an interest :toast:. I am not posting this information to you as fact! Lets get that clear however, I am compelled to inform you of these predictions for open dialogue and opinions to their possible validity.

Personally I am interested in the E6000 (if it's called that) as I am hoping they are 975 backwards compatible (voltage wise). But that still remains to be seen. This is my greatest interest in Conroe, period. I am not buying another MB just to buy a CPU

Side note, I do agree that AMD's rating system is very confusing...
Mobile single core (Yonah): 1000 series
Mobile dual core (Yonah): 2000 series
Xeon (DP) family: 5000 series
Xeon (MP) family: 7000 series
Itanium Family: 9000 series
Conroe (Desktop): 6000 series

^^This I understand...if accurate

Although it doesn't get juicy until page 2 you can click on page 1. There is 8 pages in all and I only linked you to th first 3 pages.

Page 1
Pg 2
Pag3

When I read through some of this I had the same exact question as post #23. LOL

whats the point of pr ratings anymore? Now that both amd and Intel have high ipc, they can directly compare to MHz. amd made the pr rating because joe average thinks MHz is all that.

conroe will finally give intel the chance to compete with amd

Even if say Conroe and K8L were comparable Mhz for Mhz across a range of tasks, as soon as one company added more cache, or tweaked the IMC or whatever it would give it a performance advatage that wouldn't be reflected in the name say Pentium 5 XE 3.33Ghz. This would then lead pretty quickly to one comapny deciding to go back to a PR type rating, and even though the product cycle for CPUs is nothing like that for graphics cards (and hopefully process and cost limitations will keep it that way) it wouldn't take too long for the clock speeds to stop being representative.

Can you base Conroe off of Yonah? They are predicting -/+ 15%

Can you base Conroe off of Yonah? They are predicting -/+ 15%

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nope you can't two different architectures. I don't know how many times I have to say this but, in its current form the VRMs of 975 do not support conroe, give it up. It is physically incompatible, intel itself has said it, I'm not making this up

then screw it I'm out the rat race, I ain't buying another freaking MB...bottom line. A lot of people are going to think the same way as I do. Regardless if you can afford it or not. This is another unnecessary upgrade that could have been adjusted in the 975 chipset prior to Merom and Conroe release. So screw it! They knew about it and only require you to buy another chipset so they can squeeze 1 ounce more of profit, well they ain't getting it from me! They knew this was a requirement well before they introduce the 975 chipset into market and by not doing so is bogus!

Well we knew before 975 came out that current 975 boards wouldn't support Conroe.

So if you bought a 975 expecting it would, well its your own problem, its a simple buyer beware world. I got me a 955 board and I figure the 1-2% increase in performance in some area's wasn't worth it. Ecspecially since most 955 boards support the 955XE Pressler. Intel needed a refresh to take the speed crown back from Nvidia on their own platform. Also alot of 955 boards probably couldn't handle the XE's power requirements so they had another excuse. I'm looking foreward to the 985 chipset personally.

So I wonder how long it will take for AMD to start getting the interesting "Wtf is this PR rating?" Like they did when they released the Barton cored Axp's and they were way out of whack with what Intel had out. I wonder if the PR will stand for ThunderBird mhz again lol.

You dont see video companies giving PR ratings. Nvidia is faster clock for clock, yet they dont call their card pr800+ or anything. I think the whole PR rating is dumb

its just a naming scheme. Names like T6700, 631, 2.4a (both of them), and last but not least the "Core" brand are worse than AMD's system. For an average Joe, Intel should offer asprin to purchase an Intel based system.

then screw it I'm out the rat race, I ain't buying another freaking MB...bottom line. A lot of people are going to think the same way as I do. Regardless if you can afford it or not. This is another unnecessary upgrade that could have been adjusted in the 975 chipset prior to Merom and Conroe release. So screw it! They knew about it and only require you to buy another chipset so they can squeeze 1 ounce more of profit, well they ain't getting it from me! They knew this was a requirement well before they introduce the 975 chipset into market and by not doing so is bogus!

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You just bought your "last" mobo too early If anything is a waste it's going from 955->975 and there was PLENTY of discussion on that "upgrade" as well. It was a well-known fact that 975 boards offered little over the 955s except 8x+8x PCIe slots. In fact, you only need a 975 board to run a 955XE processor and keep the HT/VT stuff.

I very much doubt most people are going to think the same way you do. A new architecture would almost assuredly mean a new mobo/chipset is in order and most OCers will expect to have to buy a new board for Conroe.

For an average Joe, Intel should offer asprin to purchase an Intel based system.

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and an airconditioner

Overclocker550 said:

You dont see video companies giving PR ratings. Nvidia is faster clock for clock, yet they dont call their card pr800+ or anything. I think the whole PR rating is dumb

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It's not a fair comparison, as far as Joe sixpacks were concerned in the days of Thunderbirds and Willamettes (and earlier) the clock speed equalled performance, simply because for somebody uninformed, the clock speed was the ONLY obvious way of comparing them. I am somewhat cynical about PR numbers, because they are often used to mislead the customer, but considering how uniformed most customers are, for any CPU maker with a slower clocked but equally powerful chip it would be madness to do anything else. Most people would probably imagine that a 3.8Ghz P4 would be faster than a 3.33Ghz Conroe.

By comparison people do not buy graphics cards on the basis of clock speed, they buy them either on the reccommendation of a (usually) ill informed sales assistant, or on the ridiculous model names (X1900XTX isn't any better than pr800+) and the list of features on the box (most of which they won't use).

Soon as these new CPU's are released and there are unhappy users complaining there stuff is slower than thier old system, AMD will be back in picture soon enough...

Thats, only if Conroe does damage to AMD's reputation at being the fastest...

Ross said:

You just bought your "last" mobo too early If anything is a waste it's going from 955->975 and there was PLENTY of discussion on that "upgrade" as well. It was a well-known fact that 975 boards offered little over the 955s except 8x+8x PCIe slots. In fact, you only need a 975 board to run a 955XE processor and keep the HT/VT stuff.

I very much doubt most people are going to think the same way you do. A new architecture would almost assuredly mean a new mobo/chipset is in order and most OCers will expect to have to buy a new board for Conroe.

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I can agree with that, I did buy this board too late in the rat race (finding out after the fact). But there is no official information about the Conroe and only through these forums are you educated. I went from a 915 to a 975 so you can understand my fustration. Personally the 975 is everything I wanted...besides the raid issue. There really is not official statement regarding which chipset is compatible with Conroe (at the time of my Purchase) so i think Ssetre comments is a bit tainted in that regards. If you are in the "know" great you are well informed but not everyone knows....

My thing is this. Intel's website (as cumbersome as it is at times) don't give any details. For example:
"Conroe will support these Chipsets..." would have been all I needed to know. I would have made a decision then to either buy this board and eat the cost for another later on or wait. I don't see why this tid bit of info is such a problem.

Besides...will we need to be concerned with the MB itself? Will w get another set of chipset problems where MB are RMA'd once again? Who knows...one thing I learn is this:
A well built, solid MB will give you good results no matter how crappy a CPU is
A crappy MB will always give you crappy results...no matter how good the CPU is. Bearing in mine the other components are also good (PSU, MEM, VC, cooling, etc).

Soon as these new CPU's are released and there are unhappy users complaining there stuff is slower than thier old system, AMD will be back in picture soon enough...

Thats, only if Conroe does damage to AMD's reputation at being the fastest...

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Uh what? The thermal specs should be in line with AMDs, and the performance is on par. So I don't see your point.

^^^ That's because it's not released It's not anyone's job to tell the public what current chipset might/will support future processors. The reason we "know" or have an educated guess is because we pay attention to leaked info. The law of the land is new processor = new chipset/mobo. Whether you knew or not for sure, it should've been assumed....particularly with a completely new architecture.

915->975 is a massive upgrade, nice job. I dunno how you managed to hold on to that 915 that long, LOL. All I am saying is you picked the wrong time to buy a new mobo and say "that's it" because Intel has a lot stuff going on this year. Don't get me wrong, Preslers and CedarMills (ie. current chipset procs) are the best P4s Intel has put out to date and will be decent for a while. Maybe in a year or so you'll feel like you got your $$ worth out of the 975 board and upgrade. Conroe/boards will probably be a lot cheaper by that time too.

Soon as these new CPU's are released and there are unhappy users complaining there stuff is slower than thier old system, AMD will be back in picture soon enough...

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I hope you are speaking figuratively (ie. Joeblow will think lower clock speed = slower system), because other than that, I don't think "worse than P4 performance" can even be conceived when talking about Conroe

dicecca112 said:

Uh what? The thermal specs should be in line with AMDs, and the performance is on par. So I don't see your point.

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It is all hear say, until someone has chip in hand and tests it.

From the looks it, it is all rumors anyway. He said this, she said that... Nothing is here yet.... We are all assuming Intel has something spectacular up their sleeve. From Intel's history of screwing up (Prescott core), I will believe it after I see it.

As you said... "Should be" in line with AMD.... Different, than "Will be..."

in that case

your statement should read

Soon as these new CPU's are released and there might/could/should be unhappy users complaining there stuff might be slower/might not be slower than thier old system, AMD could/might/should be back in picture soon enough...

But your right. Its all hearsay

I'm am happy to see that Intel's new .065 core runs cooler, much cooler... As I did switch to AMD, as they have proven to be more efficient in their designs. I would consider buying Intel once again, if they prove to be a better, more efficient CPU, for gaming and everyday tasks... Even though my sig states I'm an AMDer, does not mean I'm prodigious against Intel. Just I've seen the performance difference between the two, and found AMD to be more powerful than Intel, currently...

EDIT: If AMD would to hit the same frequencies as Intel, there would not be a CPU race what-so-ever....

If AMD can outrun an Intel CPU 1.0Ghz slower, imagine if it were the same??
Imagine a 3.8Ghz AMD..... Intel would be in big trouble...

Just stating a fact...

OMG, forget the "hear say", forget potential OCing, just read the specs on paper. If there's any doubt and you need a physical proc to compare "right now", look at Yonahs in desktops. There is NO question it will perform well, but just how much better than Yonah it will be.

Prescott fiasco or not, 65W is a LOT less TDP than any P4. Whether it's on par with AMD or not, it's a huge improvement for any P4. I am pretty sure if they can bring in 2.16GHz Yonah dual core @ 31W, they can pull off a 2.67GHz Conroe at 65W