Can companies not give you water?

TekeTorvo · 03-24-06, 07:19 PM

I am a Construction Superintendent. I build Commercial buildings. EVERY Commercial build-out has to have a High and a Low drinking fountain. The High and Low is because of ADA standards, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I also understand the reasoning behind the drinking fountains themselfs as well. Water is a necessity of life, and must be provided to the public.

Fast food/Convient Stores are exempt from drinking fountains, as long as they sell water, (I don't quite agree with this one, but for now lets say I do).

What I don't agree with, is if a little old lady can't pay her water bill, the City will cut her water off.

Recap; They require water to be provided to the public at ALL Public and Private Businesses, but yet they cut the water off if you can't pay your bill. Is water not needed at home as much as it is at a business? Is cutting off the essential of life even legal? I mean really!

tyshy · 03-24-06, 07:28 PM

A good point, the unfortunate issues dealing with capitalism, because the old lady should be treated as equal as the college student correct?...either one of them doesn't pay the water bill they get it shut off....so now we deal with the issue that arises where nobody should pay for water? Then the water quality would just go completely downhill, and people would just end up spending more money on bottled water, water softeners, and building wells. So where water should be free, it does cost money to stay alive, suvival of the fittest i guess you could call it

zexmarquies01 · 03-24-06, 08:14 PM

yeah, Tyshy is correct.

Water IS needed. But it costs money to keep the water treatment plants going. costs money to build huge water towers, to keep water pumped into those towers.

Sure, water COULD be free. but it would be super low quality, and we'd all get sick.

Its probably the quality we are paying for. you can get almost anything for free. but the quality won't be that good. And its the same with water.

ajrettke · 03-24-06, 09:15 PM

well as for the fast food places, you still have to pay for it...so it's no different than your home.
I don't see a problem with it honestly, I mean I feel bad that some people can't get what they need, but we don't and can't live in a utopian world.

SolidxSnake · 03-24-06, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajrettke

well as for the fast food places, you still have to pay for it...so it's no different than your home.
I don't see a problem with it honestly, I mean I feel bad that some people can't get what they need, but we don't and can't live in a utopian world.

fast food places give free water... i jsut got some today at BK. walked in, asked for a water cup, and they gave it to me.

Shelnutt2 · 03-24-06, 11:14 PM

If yu gave water free, then sewage would have to be free. If sewage was free then how would my father who works at a water reclamiation facility (sounds harmless right? got to love politcal correct terms), Aka a sewer plant get paid? See if water was free it'd go alot further.

Enablingwolf · 03-24-06, 11:29 PM

Time to drop a well head and not worry about it.

Water is a nessesary part of life. To bad it is considered an utility. With most essential services there is limits on how/when it can be turned off. If an elderly person allows a bill to go delinquent and not see the notices. I really would not know what to say. They always send them telling of the impending cut off of the service and the alternatives. Most places will send literature showing that there is help paying for the service.

In cold climate areas, in Winter. There is a freeze on turning off of services. You can even skip out on a gas bill and electric bill. Once the outside ambient goes up to a cetrain level your burnt and liable even further. If it is detremantal to existance, it cannot be turned off.

My argument is that water can gotten from other then a tap in a home. So it may be exempt from exclusions as an essential service. In any climate.

Mr. $T$ · 03-25-06, 12:29 AM

Having clean drinkable treated water delivered is a service and you pay for. Going to a river or stream is the way to bipass this service.

techun · 03-25-06, 01:46 AM

so lets say you dont pay for the water, you pay for the delivery of water?

that way water's always free, just not free delivery of it?

zexmarquies01 · 03-25-06, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techun

so lets say you dont pay for the water, you pay for the delivery of water?

that way water's always free, just not free delivery of it?

pretty much. It costs the city alot of money to put down all those pipes, all those water towers, Water treatment plants, Sewage treatment plants. the workers. And the upkeep cost of keeping everything running.

your not really paying for the water. your paying the city to make sure they get fresh,clean water to your house.

diehrd · 03-25-06, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekeTorvo

I am a Construction Superintendent. I build Commercial buildings. EVERY Commercial build-out has to have a High and a Low drinking fountain. The High and Low is because of ADA standards, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I also understand the reasoning behind the drinking fountains themselfs as well. Water is a necessity of life, and must be provided to the public.

Fast food/Convient Stores are exempt from drinking fountains, as long as they sell water, (I don't quite agree with this one, but for now lets say I do).

What I don't agree with, is if a little old lady can't pay her water bill, the City will cut her water off.

Recap; They require water to be provided to the public at ALL Public and Private Businesses, but yet they cut the water off if you can't pay your bill. Is water not needed at home as much as it is at a business? Is cutting off the essential of life even legal? I mean really!

I am curious what you are complaining about ?

Are you suggesting we should be free from the cost of life's essential needs ?

If so then you would find your self in a nation dictated to and be on a communal work farm.

And in the example you are providing that old lady would most likely qualify for public asistance and not go a day with out water

TekeTorvo · 03-25-06, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehrd

I am curious what you are complaining about ?

Why is it, if someone post's a debate, it is considered complaining? Am I not allowed to think about what goes on around me? Am I not allowed to question what goes on around me, and ask the thoughts of others on the subject?

Malpine Walis · 03-25-06, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekeTorvo

Why is it, if someone post's a debate, it is considered complaining? Am I not allowed to think about what goes on around me? Am I not allowed to question what goes on around me, and ask the thoughts of others on the subject?

Well, I wonder if you may have misunderstood Diehrd. Although, in all honesty, I am not sure where he was going with that.

However, while you are right to characterize this as a debate, it can be in the nature of debates that sometimes any of us may not be clear on a given point of view. But just for grins, let's say that you take up a position and someone else reads it as a complaint. Well, a position can also be a complaint and there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to be about being allowed to hold that position.

That being said, others have pointed out that the delivery of potable water is a service that requires a large capital expense to establish the facilities and further large expenses to meet payroll and maintain the physical plant. All of which is going to be paid for somewhere along the lines. If not in the form of user fees the payment would come out of taxes. The money is part of the matter and the only way to remove the money would be to not perform the activity in the first place.

Now the thing is that if we did not have the ability to collect water in reservoirs outside of the city, clean it up and move it into the area where it was needed, it would not be possible to live with the population density that we know in large cities today. Scale water production back to the way that it was 200 years ago and the largest collection of people that you would ever see would be about what it was back then anyway. So paying for water is a price not only for the water itself but for everything that comes out of modern society.

If water was free, you would have to bring a bucket or two down to the river every morning to get your daily supply, which is hard work. But then too, you would be doing all other types of hard work simply because you would not be able to hop on the bus and go to the grocery store. Without water delivery, there would be no metals industry to make the bus or the delivery trucks that make grocery stores possible. You would have to hitch up the wagon to go into town once a month to buy the stuff that you could not make at home and everything that you could make at home would be at a minimum time consuming, if not further hard work.

So paying a bit of cash for your water is an essential part of living in a society where you can pay for just about everything in cash. Made possible from the fact that you can work at a job that pays enough for you to buy what you need. Although I would bet that any job that you work at is also dependent on our society working the way it does and water not exactly being free.

To be honest, the whole question makes me think about our grandchildren living on the moon and some of them trying to argue that air should be free because it is essential to life. Yes, it is essential but just where would it come from in that case?

diehrd · 03-25-06, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TekeTorvo

I am a Construction Superintendent. I build Commercial buildings. EVERY Commercial build-out has to have a High and a Low drinking fountain. The High and Low is because of ADA standards, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I also understand the reasoning behind the drinking fountains themselfs as well. Water is a necessity of life, and must be provided to the public.

Fast food/Convient Stores are exempt from drinking fountains, as long as they sell water, (I don't quite agree with this one, but for now lets say I do).

What I don't agree with, is if a little old lady can't pay her water bill, the City will cut her water off.

Recap; They require water to be provided to the public at ALL Public and Private Businesses, but yet they cut the water off if you can't pay your bill. Is water not needed at home as much as it is at a business? Is cutting off the essential of life even legal? I mean really!

You are free to think and post as you like,,

I am not trying to cause conflict

I assumed incorrectly you where complaining and even when i re-read it I still sense a complaint that water is provided to ever yone (by law) except a poor old woman who can not pay her bill , yet that is not true at all as she gets the water free with government assistance any way

(A unique set of laws designed to help those who have trouble helping them selves

)

Some countries have free water...Like African nations..Just dig a well , get it from rain , or a stream or river,And if those sources are dried up then your example may hold true..But it can not happen in any industrial nation equipped to bill for the water and deliver it to your tap

My point is valid and that it makes your question not as strong as you would like is not my fault,Reality is Reality. .

TekeTorvo · 03-25-06, 11:27 AM

My original post was more of a, "Things that make you go Hmmmm".

I have given this ALOT of thought before I posted. So far, all of the replies were accurate, and expected. It is just something to ponder on, and Malpine is correct. It isn't so much of a debate. I should not have used that word. More of, a conversation piece. Which I guess in a way is a debate. Either way, something to make you go Hmmm. There are a few other things in the building codes that I see as non-essential as well. This was the one that stood out the most.

damarble · 03-25-06, 11:52 AM

I think that nobody should have a free ride, and being billed for water is perfectly acceptable.

But I've got a flip side to your first post. If everyone has to pay for water, why are public buildings forced to provide it free? Why not have vending machines, or coin operated water fountains? Think about that.

kayson · 03-25-06, 11:58 AM

I don't think you're paying for water. You're paying for the cost of cleaning the water and ensuring that you will never run out (ignoring all ecological issues like wasting water). If someone chooses not to pay to have clean or guaranteed water, they can still get water from a river. It would be nice to get this for free, but it costs the government money to maintain a healthy water supply, and the citizens provide the money for the government.

threeme2189 · 03-25-06, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidxSnake

fast food places give free water... i jsut got some today at BK. walked in, asked for a water cup, and they gave it to me.

yeah most of the time a restaurant or fast food place will be nice and give you a cup of water for free.

skou · 03-25-06, 07:27 PM

The thing we're talking about here, is drinking fountains. I'd be REAL surprised, if a drinking fountain was metered, and the bill was more than $1.00 a year. (Assuming it was just for the water, and there wasn't a minimum.) The fixture is going to cost more. In your house, I'd be surprised, if you drink 1 or 2 % of the water you use.

Now, let's bring up free stuff. OK, someone wants free water, why not food? Why not shelter, clothes, or transportation? All of them are required for life.

steve

eab · 03-26-06, 11:34 PM

You are not paying for the water persay but for the convenience of clean water on tap in your house.

03-24-06, 07:19 PM	Thread Starter #1
TekeTorvo Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Egypt	Can companies not give you water? I am a Construction Superintendent. I build Commercial buildings. EVERY Commercial build-out has to have a High and a Low drinking fountain. The High and Low is because of ADA standards, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I also understand the reasoning behind the drinking fountains themselfs as well. Water is a necessity of life, and must be provided to the public. Fast food/Convient Stores are exempt from drinking fountains, as long as they sell water, (I don't quite agree with this one, but for now lets say I do). What I don't agree with, is if a little old lady can't pay her water bill, the City will cut her water off. Recap; They require water to be provided to the public at ALL Public and Private Businesses, but yet they cut the water off if you can't pay your bill. Is water not needed at home as much as it is at a business? Is cutting off the essential of life even legal? I mean really!
	QUOTE Thanks

03-24-06, 07:28 PM	#2
tyshy Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Under your desk:)	A good point, the unfortunate issues dealing with capitalism, because the old lady should be treated as equal as the college student correct?...either one of them doesn't pay the water bill they get it shut off....so now we deal with the issue that arises where nobody should pay for water? Then the water quality would just go completely downhill, and people would just end up spending more money on bottled water, water softeners, and building wells. So where water should be free, it does cost money to stay alive, suvival of the fittest i guess you could call it __________________ Don't Drown. It will ruin your day. Heatware
	QUOTE Thanks

03-24-06, 08:14 PM	#3
zexmarquies01 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ohio	yeah, Tyshy is correct. Water IS needed. But it costs money to keep the water treatment plants going. costs money to build huge water towers, to keep water pumped into those towers. Sure, water COULD be free. but it would be super low quality, and we'd all get sick. Its probably the quality we are paying for. you can get almost anything for free. but the quality won't be that good. And its the same with water. __________________ AMD X6 1055T @3.8Ghz GIGABYTE 890FX-A UD5 6 Gigs of G Skill DDR3 1600 RAM EVGA GTX 460 HAF 932 Tower "Talking about how fast you beat a game is like talking about how fast you are in bed." Do you like Anime? Then join the OCF anime club! OCF Anime Club Click here, and click JOIN!
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03-24-06, 09:15 PM	#4
ajrettke Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	well as for the fast food places, you still have to pay for it...so it's no different than your home. I don't see a problem with it honestly, I mean I feel bad that some people can't get what they need, but we don't and can't live in a utopian world. __________________ Q6600@390x9 (3.5 and 1.400v) WC'd MSI P35 Neo2-FR 2x2 gb of DDR2 800 2 x Vertex 2 SSD's RAID 0 Sennheiser HDR-120's 2405FPW+2x2001FP "Computer games don’t affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitve electonic dance music..." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989 "Is it worth overclocking? That's like asking if sex is enjoyable!" -cw823
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03-24-06, 11:14 PM	#6
Shelnutt2 Overclockers Team Content Editor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: /home/	If yu gave water free, then sewage would have to be free. If sewage was free then how would my father who works at a water reclamiation facility (sounds harmless right? got to love politcal correct terms), Aka a sewer plant get paid? See if water was free it'd go alot further. __________________ Build!.Borg!.Recruit!.Folding.for.Team.32! Gigabyte P35-DS3R, E6300, 2x512MB Team Group DDR2 667, EVGA 7800GT Heat Want to run the folding@home gpu client in linux? www.linuxfah.info Your teacher is a dumbass. The equation is exact. ~Frodo Baggins Damn....It's 12:00 AM and I thought my 805 would be a magic pumkin and turn into a conroe.........boy was I fooled:) ~Stilletto This is what I get for not only being a newb, but also disregarding instructions! ~ShadowPho I hate women... but im not gay lol. ~MrCrowley Love can fade but knowledge stays forever (unless you develop alzheimers). ~Constantinos
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03-24-06, 11:29 PM	#7
Enablingwolf Senior Member overclocking at the speed of plaid Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Strongsville	Time to drop a well head and not worry about it. Water is a nessesary part of life. To bad it is considered an utility. With most essential services there is limits on how/when it can be turned off. If an elderly person allows a bill to go delinquent and not see the notices. I really would not know what to say. They always send them telling of the impending cut off of the service and the alternatives. Most places will send literature showing that there is help paying for the service. In cold climate areas, in Winter. There is a freeze on turning off of services. You can even skip out on a gas bill and electric bill. Once the outside ambient goes up to a cetrain level your burnt and liable even further. If it is detremantal to existance, it cannot be turned off. My argument is that water can gotten from other then a tap in a home. So it may be exempt from exclusions as an essential service. In any climate. __________________ No one ever expects Aloysius Snuffleupagus Last edited by Enablingwolf; 03-24-06 at 11:35 PM.
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03-25-06, 12:29 AM	#8
Mr. $T$ Member Join Date: Sep 2001	Having clean drinkable treated water delivered is a service and you pay for. Going to a river or stream is the way to bipass this service.
	QUOTE Thanks

03-25-06, 01:46 AM	#9
techun Member Join Date: Jul 2004	so lets say you dont pay for the water, you pay for the delivery of water? that way water's always free, just not free delivery of it? __________________ Sugo SFF cube case 4850 45W 4 gigs ddr2 800 7200.11 500gig
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03-25-06, 11:27 AM	Thread Starter #15
TekeTorvo Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Egypt	My original post was more of a, "Things that make you go Hmmmm". I have given this ALOT of thought before I posted. So far, all of the replies were accurate, and expected. It is just something to ponder on, and Malpine is correct. It isn't so much of a debate. I should not have used that word. More of, a conversation piece. Which I guess in a way is a debate. Either way, something to make you go Hmmm. There are a few other things in the building codes that I see as non-essential as well. This was the one that stood out the most.
	QUOTE Thanks

03-25-06, 11:52 AM	#16
damarble Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Spokane, WA	I think that nobody should have a free ride, and being billed for water is perfectly acceptable. But I've got a flip side to your first post. If everyone has to pay for water, why are public buildings forced to provide it free? Why not have vending machines, or coin operated water fountains? Think about that. __________________ Antec P180B \| Seasonic S12-500 \| ASUS P5B Deluxe \| E6600 C2D \| ATI HD5770 \| OCZ Reaper PC6400 2x2GB \| 2TB total storage \| 2x HP 23" LCD \| Logitech Z-640 5.1 speakers \| Logitech G15 and G5 DELUXE My HEAT
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03-25-06, 11:58 AM	#17
kayson Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA	I don't think you're paying for water. You're paying for the cost of cleaning the water and ensuring that you will never run out (ignoring all ecological issues like wasting water). If someone chooses not to pay to have clean or guaranteed water, they can still get water from a river. It would be nice to get this for free, but it costs the government money to maintain a healthy water supply, and the citizens provide the money for the government. __________________ Project Silver Intel Core i7-980X (145x29 = 4205MHz @1.352V) Asus P6X58D Premium Corsair Dominator 3x2GB DDR3-1600 (1740MHz) Gigabyte AMD HD 6950 (Unlocked @ 880/1375MHz) Corsair HX850 OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS 120GB Thermalright Venomous X \|\| 2x 120mm Panaflo \|\| Arctic Silver V Lian-Li PC-A77FA \|\| Vantec Nexus Fan Controller (Build Journal) Heatware
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03-25-06, 07:27 PM	#19
skou Senior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Off hiatus, iNET stopped advertising in MY posts.	The thing we're talking about here, is drinking fountains. I'd be REAL surprised, if a drinking fountain was metered, and the bill was more than $1.00 a year. (Assuming it was just for the water, and there wasn't a minimum.) The fixture is going to cost more. In your house, I'd be surprised, if you drink 1 or 2 % of the water you use. Now, let's bring up free stuff. OK, someone wants free water, why not food? Why not shelter, clothes, or transportation? All of them are required for life. steve __________________ Abit, RIP! It was great while it lasted, but my other home is gone. steve
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03-26-06, 11:34 PM	#20
eab Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houghton MI, MTU, up in the UP eh!	You are not paying for the water persay but for the convenience of clean water on tap in your house.
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