[SemperFiGuy]

As the title said, you are about to be party to a great rebirth.

Approximately one month ago my life came to a horrendous screeching halt. An aire of dark had descended upon my room; unaware and naive, there I sat at my computer, minding my own business checking the daily Woot and my Ebay account. A near silent hum of case fans could be heard in the background, from the corner of my peripheral vision I could see the blood red glow of my motherboard LED spilling into my room.

ACDC "For those about to rock" is playing through on iTunes, a near boring evening is approaching once again in my room at El Cid. Like an assassin, sneaking carefully across the floor; a dust bunny makes it's way from it's spawn point under my bed towards me. My back turned, I am helpless to this oncoming behemoth. Silently it approaches, hiding briefly behind the leg of my chair as I get up to snag a drink of water. I return and again the coast is clear, the dust bunny approaches its target. A lumbering black machine towers from the floor. as the dust bunny draws near the black case remains stolid and unafraid. Never before has there been a successful infiltration, its superior construction and care ensure that it has been and will remain the most most powerful computing force in 4th Battalion at The Citadel. Sacrificing a piece of itself, the dust bunny creeps through the forward intake fan of the Dragon Full Tower case and proceeds with its dastardly ploy. Silently it creeps towards its target, a northbridge like any other.. humming away on an Abit IC7 motherboard .. watching over the trillions of processes taking place every second inside of this beastly machine. Doom looms in the air above; this noble component is about to inadvertently commit sepuku. The power controlled by this small device warrants its own small fan, gently circulating air across its copper heat spreaders. This instrument will become the death-bringer in a matter of moments.

The dust bunny waits in the air above for the opportune moment, Calculating the exact angle of attack. A slight power surge causes a momentary increase in the revolution of the fan. This is it; the dust bunny prepares to fulfill its destiny. A damning calm overcomes the dust bunny as it plunges itself into the northridge fan of my motherboard. Immediately it is ripped to shreds, its existence ended by 40mm of whirring plastic. A small piece of this intruder survives, and with its dying breath manages to secure a foothold between two capacitors in the general vicinity of my processor.

A flash of light fills my case, white energy pouring through the custom cut window of the case's left side. An audible “pop” follows immediately afterwards. Alarms begin to sound as temperature and fan speed probes are overwhelmed; a computer dies with blood-curdling, screeching death-throes.

The dust settles over the corpse of a once great machine. A small char mark just above the northbridge gives hint to the massive destruction that has taken place. The toll is heavy, there are no casualties, only fatalities. As the reports come in the tally grows hard to bear.

One Abit IC7,
One Intel P4 2.8Ghz CPU running at 3.1Ghz,
Two 1GB sticks of Corsair XMS-Extreme pc3200 RAM,
One Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum,
One Ati Radeon 9800 pro 128mb AGP GPU,
Two Maxtor 80GB 7200rpm 8mb cache HD's
One Antec Truepower 430W PSU
One Memorex internal DvD writer
One generic internal DvD player
One Aerogate II fan controller

Each of these components has met its end. Especially surprising is the PSU, which has somehow managed to MELT THROUGH THE CUSTOM ACRYLIC CASING THAT SURROUNDS IT. Each part has been bench tested and deemed inoperable. The destruction is extensive, but there is still hope.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I am writing to you now from a Dell Inspiron laptop. Having just completed the order for replacement parts and components. She will rise again. Reinforcements are on their way from headquarters to the front lines.


One DFI LanParty Ultra-D/Audio-G ATX-939 motherboard
One AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego socket 939 CPU
Two 1GB Corsair Twinx 2048-3200 pc3200 RAM sticks
Two 512mb Corsair Twinx 2048-3200 pc3200 RAM sticks
One PCI-E Sapphire x1800xt 512mb GPU
One Antec TruepowerII 480W PSU
One Lite-On 16xDvD 48xCD Rom
One WD 250GB 7200rpm 16mb cache HD
One Maxtor 120GB 7200rpm 8mb cache HD
One Chenming 601A Full Tower case (to be heavily modified)

This will be the platform upon which I will thrive. Parts will be waiting when I arrive home May 8th. Still, the issue which killed my computer in the first place remains. Dust. Even though I clean my computer thoroughly at regular intervals, my barracks are old. I sweep twice daily, dust daily, but alas the problem still remains. Waiting for me everyday when I return from class are the dust bunnies, which seem to have greater reproductive drives than their real-world counterparts.

Solution: Watercooling major PC components and passive, filtered air cooling throughout the rest of the case.

Justification: Let me first start off by saying that I am not looking for maximum cost/return ratios. Rather I am interested in preserving my computer. I attend military college and am a military contract. We don't get much leave, so I don;t have anything to spend my stipend on and my computer is really my only outlet from the daily grind. That in mind, I'm going all out.

Process: In high-school, my Senior Engineering Design Project was dubbed “C4: Cazenovia Custom Computer Cooling.” The project entailed building an external, ground-up water cooling system; and doing so effectively and at a reasonable price. I intend to expand upon that original idea and implement a completely internal cooling system. I plan to cool my CPU, Video Card, RAM, and chipset, (possibly HD's?) with water.
The radiator is pulled from an 87 Chevette I believe, and has two 120mm fans ducted one on either side. I plan to mount this in 3 5.25” bays with 120mm vents cut into either side of the top-front of my case. I have a MagDrive3 pump for the main loop, and will acquire a secondary pump sometime later for the other loop. The details of the loops are inconsequential as of yet, they'll be addressed later. Now, on to passive air cooling.
I plan to cut 3 120mm blow holes into my new case. 2 on the bottom of the case, under low power drawing air in, and 1 at the top of the case without a fan simply for convection ventilation. The only active air intake will take place through these 120mm fans, which I plan to mount over a filter tray. (I'm considering some sort of duct-filtering as it is cheap, efficient, and readily available.) I'll make sections of removable filter to mount between the outside of my case and the intake fans. Ideally, ill be able to change these out when they become dirty and maintain as sterile an environment inside my case as possible. The four 80mm fans that come pre-installed will be dealt with. Still debating whether to just make them all low power output, or remove them completely and allow the positive pressure within the case push air through them.

This is the plan so far. I have another month before I am on furlough and home to begin construction, so there's plenty of time for planning, schematics, and parts acquisition. I intend to start a work-log when I get home but for now I wanted to give everyone a heads up as to what I'm doing. I appreciate constructive criticism and idea proposal, but may not be readily available to check my post for updates. This won't be my first build, nor my first mod, nor my first water cooling experience. However, this will be the most extensive and involved project I've ever undertaken. Expect to see some tried and true ideas, as well as few that I call my own. Overall, I hope to keep you guys well abreast of where I am as I go through this build.

I have dubbed the project Phoenix for now, as I am still working on coming up with an original name.

Goodnight.




-Semper Fi

[SemperFiGuy]

Started this thread about a week ago in the Alt. Modding section. Parts have begun to arrive so I'm now calling this a Work in Progress.

Changes thus far.
- Taking some of the input from the posts in the previous thread.. I realized that a single 120mm radiator most likely wouldn't cut it to do the ammount of cooling I'm looking to do. So, that being said,

-what are the benefits of going with the 3 x 120mm vs the 2 x 120?
-Any brands I should stay away from?
-Which model / year vehicles pack heatercores that would be acceptable for what I'm trying to do?
-Where the heck do I find this stuff, I've been in the stickies and on ebay, but aside from the major places everyone knows of .. where else can I think about looking?

Thanks again for the input you've given thus far. Sorry for posting a repeat.

[nicspits]

you could look at aquastealth.com for some cheap quality stuff, prices are about the same. too bad you can't get your 3 stars real quick and go shopping in the classifieds.

The benefit of getting a radiator taht fits 3x120s is simply not having to run them as loudly, though many would argue 3 fans are louder then 2: it's all a big balancing act but most 3 fan rads don't fit in most cases unless you give them a high and tight .

then there are loops like mine: external, whereby you can put radiators in line, the hottest water going through the second radiator to maximize cooling:
2fansXRADx2fansXRADX2fans. Yields massive airflow and excellent cooling, he, what can i say

[bobthemoo]

although i dont live in america, ive heard that newegg is a good place to buy from
but if you live in england (or europe) overclockers is very good

[Electron Chaser]

Originally Posted by SemperFiGuy

Started this thread about a week ago in the Alt. Modding section. Parts have begun to arrive so I'm now calling this a Work in Progress.

Changes thus far.
- Taking some of the input from the posts in the previous thread.. I realized that a single 120mm radiator most likely wouldn't cut it to do the ammount of cooling I'm looking to do. So, that being said,

-what are the benefits of going with the 3 x 120mm vs the 2 x 120?
-Any brands I should stay away from?
-Which model / year vehicles pack heatercores that would be acceptable for what I'm trying to do?
-Where the heck do I find this stuff, I've been in the stickies and on ebay, but aside from the major places everyone knows of .. where else can I think about looking?

Thanks again for the input you've given thus far. Sorry for posting a repeat.

Since you are trying to make it look "Bad Ass" I personally would steer away from a heatercore and use a component that is make for PCs since they look nicer, are more compact and the plumbing connections are designed with PCs in mind.
A larger heat exchanger will handle a higher heat load and remove more of the heat from the coolant to keep your temps lower. Not all are created equal though if you look at the Black Ice line and compace the Black Ice Pro 2 to a Black Ice Extreme 2 there is a huge difference in the amount of heat it can handle.

[Celeron_Phreak]

EC is right, a heater core might make it look more ghetto than you want. How about one of those black long rads that use three fans? I know they offer it in the two fan config as well. They're dammmmn sexy to!

I'm keeping my eyes on this project, it just might be the mod of the year for which I've been hunting for the past two years. The last one was done by a college kid here, who's project log was well over 20 pages. He actually had to redo the thread without the comments because it was to long. Anyone know what I'm talking about? I remember him doing a custom case that sat under his computer for a prometia unit and modded the hell out of it so it would work from beneath. Didn't he extend the pipe on it as well? Anyhow, his project log was the one that started me modding like crazy. I hope your thread will get me back into it again, as I've been pretty bored when it comes to modding since then. =\

EDIT: Found it! Fushyguru is his handle. Here's the thread:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=254381

Perhaps it can inspire you to!

[SemperFiGuy]

Quite the read. I've already tried the external "box" watercooling method ... not my cup of tea. Will surely have to credit whatever ideas I borrow on this. Thanks again to everyone for posting. I'll keep you updated as i go. ~18 days until I get home on furlough and have the chance to start my project!

[SemperFiGuy]

Got confirmation this morning that most of my parts have arrived and are waiting for me to get home. Here's a rundown of the system I'll be building.

One DFI LanParty Ultra-D/Audio-G ATX-939 motherboard
One AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego socket 939 CPU
Two 1GB Corsair Twinx 2048-3200 pc3200 RAM sticks
Two 512mb Corsair Twinx 2048-3200 pc3200 RAM sticks
One PCI-E Sapphire x1800xt 512mb GPU
One Antec TruepowerII 480W PSU
One Lite-On 16xDvD 48xCD Rom
One WD 250GB 7200rpm 16mb cache HD
One Maxtor 120GB 7200rpm 8mb cache HD
One Chenming 601A Full Tower case (to be heavily modified)

(Also, I managed to acquire 2 Koolance RAM-30-V06 Dual Memory coolers) <- it'll be interesting to see how these perform.

Looking now to find either a high-heat capacity 2x120mm radiator or something ~3x120mm for the primary loop. Chevette heatercore will be responsible for secondary loop.


Input I need:
-What 120mm fans are ideal for this project? I'm not overly concerned about noise, although I can't have a 747-400 lifting off in my room every time I boot. Main things im looking for in fans: lifespan, functionality, price (in that order).
-Which cooler would you guys reccomend on the x1800xt? I've been looking around and selection is thin, so I'd like to see what you guys think.
-The polytop on my old whitewater cpu block broke... is it worth replacing? If not, what block would you recommend running on that CPU?
-THIS IS THE BIGGY THAT'S GIVING ME ISSUES. For some reason, I can't find a straight answer to the motherboard chip cooling question. I won't watercool it if I don't have to, and I'd prolly slap a Thermalright HR-05 on there. BUT!!! remember, I'm going for a mainly PASSIVE air cooling scheme, there isn't going to be the volume of air moving through my case that a normal system would encounter. Can I get away with the HR-05? or should I just slap a block on it and call it a day? Again, which block would you recommend for this application.


Changes to the setup thus far:
-I saw a thread in which a vertically mounted PSU was housed next to some HD's and I loved that idea, space-saving and efficient. I may try to incorporate something like this, or maybe even try a little something new
-I just got my orders today for 4 weeks of training in Florida from May 17-Jun 15. So .. unless I swear-off sleep for the 9 days I'm going to be home there will be a bit of a hiatus after I begin.
-The best part ... I won the lottery so I'll be building one of these for everyone on the forums!! <-- </sarcasm> .. but OHH WOULDN'T IT BE NICE!!

That's pretty much it for now, I'm 100% done with PC Component acquisition, but only ~60% done with my quest to find the right cooling products...

Thanks again for all the help you've lended this far. Hopefully, this will begin to take shape in the next few weeks.

[nicspits]

Papst 120mm fans are really good, rivalled by sanyo denkis and a certain YS tech model I believe as far as high airflow and DBA (110-130cfm and 40-60dba if memory serves).

The Danger Den Tyee is one bad ace watercooling piece that would cool your entire card: $125 though, up to you. Otherwise how about and MCW60 and some nice ramsinks!.

Yes it's worth replacing, the white water is still one of the best low pressure, high C/W waterblocks out there: it'd cost ya at least $40 for something as good, i think a copper top is what $20?

The final answer to your chipset question: Consider that every HP, Compaq, and Gateway Computer even the ones with Athlon X2s use passive chipset cooling that's basically about the size of the first Zalman. Add to that the fact they normally have one exhaust fan. A thermalright will do ya fine!

The painted black heatercore looks really nice Better pics to come in a week or so.

[SemperFiGuy]

-Read some articles / checked out some charts on the Thermalright HR-05 and it looks like I'll be going with that. The fact I can add a fan easily later if it doesn't perform has tipped the hand in its favor.

-The MCW60 also looks like it will be a viable solution, although I'm having trouble finding retailers with both it and the MC-14 Ramsinks in stock.
** Question, I already have ~8 TT A1978 ramsinks leftover from another project.. will these suffice, or will they be too tall / big????

-A small res is also something that has revealed itself as an almost needed commodity for this project .. so as of yet I've decided upon the Swiftech MCRES Micro Reservoir. Enough to get me by, but not obscenely large. Anyone have any rants / raves about this? I can't seem to find much on it.

-Looking heavily at Tygon 1000grade tubing with Swiftech coolsleeves instead of UV / dyed coolant in the loop. Again, input as to my tubing thoughts is desired.

** Another thought that had crossed my mind. Typically, my computer is very restricted as far as access to the rear of my case is concerned. I've been measuring / drawing examples of what it would take to mount my new PSU sideways and upright within the case. Expect to hear more about this as I develop the idea.

-that's all for now, I'll keep you all updated.

****EDIT****
Anyone know anything about these fans?
THERMALTAKE A2330 SILENT WHEEL 130MM FAN 54.4 CFM 16DBA
They seem real quiet, but I'm wondering how they'd stack up in the type of system I'm building?

[nicspits]

good chioce oin the HR-05

MCW60s are available from swiftech directly: swiftnets.com click on online store in the top right.

I don't think those ramsinks will do, too damn narrow and small, perhaps invest in the mcw60 package.

Any res will really do, that one looks fine. Bay res's are nice and convenient so probably the best choice.

High grade tygon is about the best you can ask for, ooo, sleeves= pimpage.

if you could post a pic of your case, that might help.


54.4cfm, ewwww. sure 16dba is nice, thats about as loud as you breath. I'd say get a fan with at least 80CFM if you're going to use a push pull method, remember, it does have fins to go through so 54 CFM I just don't think will cut it though i've never tried anything that weak.

[Albaholic]

That was quite an initial post. I'll be watching this one to see how it turns out. Good luck. have fun

[SemperFiGuy]

I'm working with a stock Chenming 601A Full tower case. I was trying to find the 901 model Server tower but failed to find anything near what I was willing to pay. The case has an unmodded side panel (Which will of course change )

Linky to a similar case:

http://www.madboxpc.com/catalogo/pro...27dcf96f8f239a

Sorry for length and the whole cut/paste thing..


more later...

[SemperFiGuy]

Ok, another parts order submitted today. Three different retailers involved.

****1) Jab-Tech:
2x Thermaltake Smart LED fans (120mm) (Blue LED)
1x Swiftech MCW60 WB w/ ramsinks
5x "Super Lazer LED's" w/ chrome housing

****2)Dtek Customs
1x replacement copper top panel for their classic Whitewater waterblock

****3) Sidewinder computers
1x Thermalright HR-05 passive chipset cooler
1x Swiftech MCRES micro-reservoir
15ft of Tygon R1000 tubing. 1/2" ID, 5/8" OD (never know when I might need a little extra)
10x 7/32" to 5/8" Breeze hose clamps
120" of Swiftech 625 Coolsleeves: Horizon UV Blue

***Note: Sidewinder didn't have everything I wanted in stock two days ago. I submitted a few stock notification requests and not ONE HOUR LATER I received a PERSONAL email from an associate at sidewinder stating they would do whatever they could to assist me and get my products in. Over the course of about 30 hours, they managed to get EVERYTHING I WANTED IN STOCK!! I received several personal emails from TWO different associates regarding my order process. Talk about service! I had never previously done business with them before but I guarantee I will being doing business with them again. A significant selection and reasonable prices .. and a real steal on shipping .. (10$ for my entire order to be sent 2-3day UPS). I will be posting on resellerratings about this and also in the "vendor discussion" thread.

-Goodnight all, I promise to have some pictures as soon as I begin construction. Thanks to everyone who has put in their two cents, and to everyone I'll be relying on in the weeks to come for advice.

[-aDaM^]

Originally Posted by SemperFiGuy

Ok, another parts order submitted today. Three different retailers involved.

****1) Jab-Tech:
2x Thermaltake Smart LED fans (120mm) (Blue LED)
1x Swiftech MCW60 WB w/ ramsinks
5x "Super Lazer LED's" w/ chrome housing

****2)Dtek Customs
1x replacement copper top panel for their classic Whitewater waterblock

****3) Sidewinder computers
1x Thermalright HR-05 passive chipset cooler
1x Swiftech MCRES micro-reservoir
15ft of Tygon R1000 tubing. 1/2" ID, 5/8" OD (never know when I might need a little extra)
10x 7/32" to 5/8" Breeze hose clamps
120" of Swiftech 625 Coolsleeves: Horizon UV Blue

***Note: Sidewinder didn't have everything I wanted in stock two days ago. I submitted a few stock notification requests and not ONE HOUR LATER I received a PERSONAL email from an associate at sidewinder stating they would do whatever they could to assist me and get my products in. Over the course of about 30 hours, they managed to get EVERYTHING I WANTED IN STOCK!! I received several personal emails from TWO different associates regarding my order process. Talk about service! I had never previously done business with them before but I guarantee I will being doing business with them again. A significant selection and reasonable prices .. and a real steal on shipping .. (10$ for my entire order to be sent 2-3day UPS). I will be posting on resellerratings about this and also in the "vendor discussion" thread.

-Goodnight all, I promise to have some pictures as soon as I begin construction. Thanks to everyone who has put in their two cents, and to everyone I'll be relying on in the weeks to come for advice.

great choice on the tubing, tygon r1000 is simply the best stuff.

[SemperFiGuy]

Ok, only a few more parts to gather before I begin construction. The only major component left is a new radiator. I have determined that A dual-loop system is going to be my best bet for effective cooling (unless of course, someone can suggest a dual 120mm radiator that could handle these loads). Here's a tentative layout:

Main loop:
Will cool both my CPU and GPU. 120mm x 2 radiator (most likely a B.I. model), Mag-Drive 3 pump, Swiftech MCRES reservoir, Dtek WhiteWater CPU block, Swiftech MCW60 GPU block.

Secondary loop:
Will cool RAM and possibly HD's. (I think I may just cut this loop out all together, but I have those Koolance ram-coolers that I'm dying to try.) 120mm x 1 heatercore from a chevette, some generic aquatic in-line pump, 2x Koolance RAMcoolers, possibly a dual HD cooler... possibly not.

Ideal situation:
Ideally, I'd like to stick to one loop, but my issue is heat removal. If I'm going to be taxing my system, are there any 120mm x2 radiators that could keep up? Or would I have to go with a 120mm x3 rad? Any links to some sort of data sheet for specific characteristics of rads would be appreciated.

*** More design changes. ***
-I had an idea this morning while cleaning out a friend's computer case. If I were to mount this huge radiator in the front of my case, I'd lose my drive bays. BUT, since I already plan to move my HD's to the rear of the computer, I thought .. "why not move the DvD and such?" There will still be ample room for my fan controller a 5.25" bay, but my DvD drive would stick to far back and interfere with my radiator placement. So, here's my proposed solution. I'm going to mount my DvD drive at the top of my case, with the bezel exiting the top panel. I plan to tilt it ~45 degrees to the tray extends at an angle out of the case. I know, bad description, I'm working on the pics now. I promise a visual aid of this new layout either tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks Again!

[nicspits]

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=phoronix_articles

if you go down to cooling and a few articles down, or just find radiator, you'll see a 5 way roundup. As you can see the 2x120 radiators performed the same (DD heatercore aka a large heatercore sold by dangerden and the DD black ice extreme II). Tada, you see, size is what matters

This was with an Athlon 64 @ 2.7ghz.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...ercooling.html

This one shows you quite a few pre assembled kits. But the winner is a loop with a doubly thick 2x120 rad(cpu, chipset, GPU), the runner up is a regularly thick 2x120 rad(cpu only). The nice part is you can see how each performed under different watt loads 100-300 in 50 watt increments. I think with your system your gpu/cpu loop will load out 200 watts approximately? anyone with a more concrete figures knowing this will be OCd?

According to http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...ercooling.html

An OCd P4 3.06 to 3.5ghz @ 1.65 vs 1.525 volts put out a total of 133 watts under max theoretical load (remember this isn't really that possible, 88% figure: 117) 70 watts for the gpu? sounds about right.

[SemperFiGuy]

Looking now at a Black Ice Pro III 3x120mm rad. Stats sheet says it's rated at ~6800 BTU's / hour. Anyone have any input as to whether this is adequate for a cpu / gpu with possible expansion to include RAM and HD's? Just looking for feedback based on those loops. I know it's innefficient, but I've never seen a fully water cooled PC before. So what do you think?

[nicspits]

if you're going to get a 3 fan radiator, get the black ice III extreme. the II extreme has 91.2% of the pro IIIs btu rating. the few decibels from an extra fan isn't worth that. the extreme III beats the II extreme in the same relation (64.6%) or 1.54x the btu.

I guess the only reason you may want to go with that III is the price difference, $13 cheaper then the II extreme though that would probably be made up in additional S&H and the extra fan you'll have.

Don't mess around man, get an xtreme version, it's jsut worth it.


Did you check out the radiator reviews in the first link above?
Here's a link to show you how much power is CONSUMED, what you're cooling is leaked from these numbers. http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2.../index.x?pg=14

As you can see 207 watts is the largest AMD with an opteron 152, you'll be using a san diego core so that's a close enough comparison. Overclocking and gpu asside, lets say your total system will consume about 270 watts. subtract the non watercooled items consumption and you'll get a rough idea of what you have left to cool. Several factors will reduce that number though, for instance the efficiency of the mosfets, etc.