Is Microsoft saving PC gaming?

OC Noob · Jun 2, 2006

Saving it from being just a diminutive niche in the gaming market or the red headed step child of the gaming market?

Sure this will be unpopular here, but when has that ever stopped me and why should we ignore something thats happening just because we don't like it.

Additional disclaimer, it is true that 1 persons experience does not mean much in the big picture and my region of the world is very different from yours, so i would like some input about these trends.

Last disclaimer, this is NOT a "is PC gaming dying" thread because we know it is NOT.

So I walk into my local EB Games to pick up a copy of HL2 since I gave mine to my brother and wanted to play it again before playing episode Uno. that and I wanted to see what this 1900XT could do.

Anyway, short story long, I hit the PC game wall and it was freakin GONE! I asked the clerk where the PC games where and they were on an endcap type shelf in the middle of the floor. He went on to tell my they almost got rid of them entirely because only a few popular online titles sell well. Which I guess makes sense because 90% of us are all playing the same 10 or so titles, maybe closer to 5.

Anyway, in Phx here the only plces to get a good selection of PC games anymore are the large PC stores like CompUSA, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, etc.

The AAA titles sell well and are in great shape, but how often are the smaller devs or even smaller titles from larger publishers/devs selling well enough to make it worth while? Obviously in this region they are not, otherwise all the small walls of PC games would not be disapearing in leu of racks 1/4th the size.

So MS has their console and makes it very easy and cheap to port a console game to the PC and visa versa and these smaller devs/non-AAA titles from larger pubs can be made for a platform where they will sell decently and be ported to the PC to amke a few extra bucks where a more expensive port or developement would not be worth the time and effort.

It is very possible that MS is keeping the number of titles released for the PC up and increasing the diversity of our libraries when so many people complain they are harming PC gaming. After all, if the money isn't there devs are going to leave anyway, atleast this way when they leave we still see their product instead of getting left in the cold, which is where we probably belong for being so narrow minded in our gaming habits. i.e. FPS, MMO and the occasional RTS or RPG and those almost strictly AAA titles.

Feel free to reply with your thoughts, flames (within forums rules of course), whatever.

Fireside85281 · Jun 2, 2006

That's certainly a new point of view you're shedding. But I'm still sticking with my original idea that MS is just too lazy to make a real console, and instead is just shipping out modified PCs, relabeled as xboxs.

I think if MS was really into pushing PC gaming, they would have released Halo 2 already, but obviously they're more concerned with the console wars. I think Bungie could easily put out more great games, but I still get the feeling that MS has them on a tight xbox-only leash.

And you should buy games online more. They are generally cheaper and have a few benefits, like special items and offers. Although, even I pick some up at Fry's, when I'm already there for other items.

blitzkrieg1110 · Jun 2, 2006

All great points. I think that someday you will find very few pc games in even the major stores (except for the major hits) and that there will be many more services like Direct2Drive and so forth that will cut back on costs of making games and materials.

I also see places like Amazon.com as being the only way to get less popular games.

Wiggles · Jun 2, 2006

I've been noticing EB Games getting pretty low on PC game selection too. Their section of PC games is nothing compared to the section for PS2 / Xbox / etc. I even think the last one I went into had a bigger Game Cube selection.

beau_safken · Jun 2, 2006

I'm gonna have to agree with Fireside.

The downloading of new games, with the newest patchs/updates makes a lot more sense. It's cheaper to distribute the product and the company has complete control over their supply lines. Monitoring customers purchase habits, providing more support and even auto updating old drivers could be in the future of the downloadable game generation.

The brick and mortar stores are just going with the trend that most people use consoles because they are cheaper, and they can make a lot of dough on accessories. I would do the same thing if I was a store owner. PC games are great....But games like DDR need the pad, Shooting games need the gun, MAdden needs a gamepad, Eyetoy games...etc... Those accessories are in the +100% markup range while games are not anywhere close to that.

Rydis · Jun 2, 2006

Their is a lack of PC games in such speciality stores because like you said, everyone plays the same few games. Half-life, Unreal, WoW. Then going to Fear and FFXI.

I dont see how people have a narrow-minded gamming habbit. People play what they like, and people skip on what they don't. Since people like to play with friends, then if your a RTS player, and all your friends are FPS, then your gonna end up playing more FPS because your friends do. Major part of games today is multiplayer aspect.

Right now all you see are FPS sequels. Halo, Hal-life, Unreal. Fear being a newcommer is good. People play these games above the less popular title just for that fact. Its less popular. This is usually because it is inferior, but thats not always true. Just most of the time. And why would you buy an inferior game no one plays, when you can get a better one thousads+ people play? It makes no sense. So the less popular will always stay less popular.

RTS games died out with starcraft and Command & Conquer. There hasn't been very many made, and definatly not by the companies that were known to make them. You can't buy a game if isn't being made.

Other RTS wor RPG/RTS games are usually single player. Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle saga, ect are all single player. Once beaten, really serve no purpose with replayability, and with no multiplayer people dont justify their cost with what they get.

RPG games are single player unless a MMORPG genreally. They can fit with the above.

FPS are easy to get a story with, provide fast or slow pased action, and are easy multiplayer games. You can just jump in and start playing. Its easy and convienent so people play them. The only other alternatives are similar older games that fewer people now play (Warcraft, Diablo). Then your left with MMORPG as the last alternative. These usually cost money, so that defers other people to free FPS multiplayer. MMOPRG are massive like their name says, and most provide fun game play, PvP, and a bad story.

since AAA titles cost as much on PC as non AAA titles, there is no point in buying anything other then AAA titles. So you are left with the same games being made over and over. I do not see this chaning until a great product comes out again. And I dont think we will see a revolutionary title thats not MMORPG or FPS comming out for a while.

Owenator · Jun 2, 2006

An intersting thought. I agree that MS xbox seems like it's actually just a PC made like a console, and this can only be good for PC gaming. If a developer can port it cheaply from xbox to PC and PC's keep their technology advantage we should do pretty good. Although PC's seem to be getting more expensive rather than less. If the PC market turns into an expensive niche gamers market it may be more disposed to online purchases. I see the start with the free online games (American Army, WarRock) and the episodic ones like BF2, HL2 and Sin. I inculde BF2 because of the multiple online expansions.

Finally, I read online that a lot of gamers are in the 25-35 range and have money. So I conclude PC's still have a future even if more expensive as long as the games are there.

hibner · Jun 2, 2006

I see your point OC, but, the truth of the matter is that you don't see that many ports between XBox and PC. Microsoft tends to release RTS and SIM games on the PC, and release FPS and driving games on the XBox. If they were saving PC gaming, then Halo 2 and Gotham Racing would be keeping me entertained.

Rydis · Jun 2, 2006

Owenator said:
An intersting thought. I agree that MS xbox seems like it's actually just a PC made like a console, and this can only be good for PC gaming. If a developer can port it cheaply from xbox to PC and PC's keep their technology advantage we should do pretty good. Although PC's seem to be getting more expensive rather than less. If the PC market turns into an expensive niche gamers market it may be more disposed to online purchases. I see the start with the free online games (American Army, WarRock) and the episodic ones like BF2, HL2 and Sin. I inculde BF2 because of the multiple online expansions.

Finally, I read online that a lot of gamers are in the 25-35 range and have money. So I conclude PC's still have a future even if more expensive as long as the games are there.

But on the other side, PC games are half the price of console games. Maybe not at launch, but FEAR is already down to 29.99, and I have yet to see a 40+ dollar game anywhere. Where as with the 360, most games are going to be 60, while a few float at the 50.

Consoles are easier to use, and most games are better performed on a controller then a keyboard and mouse. More mobile (can move it around easier), and usualy get the performance of high end PC's for 1/3 of the price (not counting PS3 atm). As it appears now, if games continue to get produced on PC and ported to consoles, or vice versa, then PC gamming I think, will eventually fade.

Captain Newbie · Jun 2, 2006

The thing that ticks me off the most about MSFT Games at the moment is their lack of attention to Flight Simulator, although there are rumors/wild speculation about the next iteration of the title. They're basically the only ones in the market at the moment and they're sucking at keeping up with technology.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that PC gaming is slowly dying. Mind, slowly. As in descending at about 300 feet per minute from 35,000 feet since about 2004-2005. It's gonna become a niche market for people like me who are too smart/geeky/too stubborn to buy a console because you surrender control of the platform when you do that.

We haven't seen the innovative titles. We haven't seen fantastic technical advances like we did in the 90s. I've been to our local (CMA) EB lately and it's almost shocking how few titles there are for the PC. That said, content delivery schemes like Steam as well as the prevalance of broadband Internet have made it easier to eliminate the middleman (literally!) in the distribution of computer software. Not so for consoles--yet.

The prevalence of consoles is partially to blame, but also to blame are the surprisingly higher costs of acquiring a PC that can play the games as well as the console. Economics of scale, etc.

Dukeman · Jun 2, 2006

I don't think MS cares about PC gaming much. They're bread and butter is business apps and OS sales. If they cared about PC gaming then Halo 2 and 3 would launch for the PC. Instead, they seem to only want these games as reasons to buy and XBOX.

FudgeNuggets · Jun 2, 2006

I see your logic but I disagree with both notions that MS is saving or killing PC gaming. What they are TRYING and IMO SUCCEEDING to do is to amalgamate the two machines into one to the extent that the PC is your business device and the console is your entertainment device. Try as they might to deny it, SONY is on the same track with the PS3. I both like and agree with this strategy. If I want to program, write HTML, create media or an office document or presentation then I will use my PC. If I want to surf the net, play games, watch videos/movies or listen to music then I can use my console. PC=WORK CONSOLE=ENTERTAINMENT

In my world this is how it is and how it should be. Kudos to MS and SONY for finally realizing this. I view it as a win/win because we won't need to dump a TON of cash into our PCs and have it be outdated in a year to play games, we spent a bunch on a console and it's good for 5 years or so. PCs will then not nearly need as much graphics power, sound thingies or other stuff unneeded for business, productive and media creation and therefore will become CHEAPER and SMALLER. I'm happy!!!

gt24 · Jun 2, 2006

It was mentioned before... if MS was interested in keeping PC gaming afloat then it would be porting more games to the PC. Instead, they are drawing venders to release XBox only games. For a vendor, the PC is seen as a minor increase in sales (since if you really wanted the game, you would have the console) and a larger increase in support and costs (PC hardware is diverse, patches required for games to continue to work with newer patches and hardware). Microsoft doesn't want to alienate their OS customers but they are assisting others in slowly phazing out of the PC market and making it a nitch market indeed. It is a pity...

Luftwaffle · Jun 2, 2006

I miss Bullfrog...

Illah · Jun 2, 2006

beau_safken said:
I'm gonna have to agree with Fireside.

The downloading of new games, with the newest patchs/updates makes a lot more sense. It's cheaper to distribute the product and the company has complete control over their supply lines. Monitoring customers purchase habits, providing more support and even auto updating old drivers could be in the future of the downloadable game generation.

The brick and mortar stores are just going with the trend that most people use consoles because they are cheaper, and they can make a lot of dough on accessories. I would do the same thing if I was a store owner. PC games are great....But games like DDR need the pad, Shooting games need the gun, MAdden needs a gamepad, Eyetoy games...etc... Those accessories are in the +100% markup range while games are not anywhere close to that.

110% correct!

I actually worked at one of the pioneering online distribution companies for PC games. Their main business was the game protection and security, but then they started selling the games they protected. It's mostly casual games because AAA games are massive and more difficult to protect, and casual games actually make way more money anyway.

www.trygames.com

No I don't work there anymore so it's not a plug.

But the point is, why *wouldn't* this happen? Broadband is becoming ubiquitous, cost of packaging, shipping, etc, can be avoided leaving higher profit margins, infinite selection. It's a no brainer.

Imagine a 'packaged' protection system, so that any developer can log in, upload, and protect a game for online distribution, and get a payment system built into the game. The protection supplier then gets a revenue share. Literally anyone could protect and sell games this way.

As for 'Microsoft keeping PC gaming alive' I disagree. The problem is bang:buck. PC gaming is luxury gaming. Our machines cost thousands and need frequent upgrades. It's not something average kids can have, even middle class Dell/Gateway kids. The main domain for AAA gamers is 20-something to 30-something adults, not kids! It's an expensive hobby. EB games wants mass appeal, PC gaming is a luxury niche.

I also disagree with PC=WORK CONSOLE=ENTERTAINMENT. The word is 'convergence', meaning that consoles will gradually allow more 'work' while PC's will gradually allow more 'entertainment'. Eventually these machines will converge and be one 'thing' - the home theater PC that plays hi-def movies, plays music through your home stereo, surfs the web, and plays games with a standard console-like controller. Maybe it won't be ideal for programming, but again, that's a 1%'er niche - the vast majority of users aren't programmers and don't use the machine for anything like that. Basic word processing and whatnot will be great on these systems - 1080p is a higher res than most home monitors, and when 40" 1080p flatscreen displays are $500 a pop 10 years from now, why would anyone outside of a small niche use a 19" display ever again?

--Illah

OC Noob · Jun 2, 2006

Well thought out posts, very cool. Maybe the movement to online e-tailiing is coming of age in a sense and finally effecting retail sales.

Rydis said:
Their is a lack of PC games in such speciality stores because like you said, everyone plays the same few games. Half-life, Unreal, WoW. Then going to Fear and FFXI.

I dont see how people have a narrow-minded gamming habbit. People play what they like, and people skip on what they don't. Since people like to play with friends, then if your a RTS player, and all your friends are FPS, then your gonna end up playing more FPS because your friends do. Major part of games today is multiplayer aspect.

Right now all you see are FPS sequels. Halo, Hal-life, Unreal. Fear being a newcommer is good. People play these games above the less popular title just for that fact. Its less popular. This is usually because it is inferior, but thats not always true. Just most of the time. And why would you buy an inferior game no one plays, when you can get a better one thousads+ people play? It makes no sense. So the less popular will always stay less popular.

RTS games died out with starcraft and Command & Conquer. There hasn't been very many made, and definatly not by the companies that were known to make them. You can't buy a game if isn't being made.

Other RTS wor RPG/RTS games are usually single player. Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle saga, ect are all single player. Once beaten, really serve no purpose with replayability, and with no multiplayer people dont justify their cost with what they get.

RPG games are single player unless a MMORPG genreally. They can fit with the above.

FPS are easy to get a story with, provide fast or slow pased action, and are easy multiplayer games. You can just jump in and start playing. Its easy and convienent so people play them. The only other alternatives are similar older games that fewer people now play (Warcraft, Diablo). Then your left with MMORPG as the last alternative. These usually cost money, so that defers other people to free FPS multiplayer. MMOPRG are massive like their name says, and most provide fun game play, PvP, and a bad story.

since AAA titles cost as much on PC as non AAA titles, there is no point in buying anything other then AAA titles. So you are left with the same games being made over and over. I do not see this chaning until a great product comes out again. And I dont think we will see a revolutionary title thats not MMORPG or FPS comming out for a while.

I don't mean narrow minded in an unwilling to try different genres, but being unwilling to give a new IP a chance unless it is very hyped. There are a lot of smaller named games that just get ignored for the most part, but maybe they aren't disapearing due to neglect, maybe they are just moving to online distribution.

Elif Tymes · Jun 3, 2006

Social gaming is becoming more prevalent. People are more willing to go hang out and "Play games" As such, consoles are ruling the roost because lots of people can play at very cheap cost. End result? Fun for all!

redrumy3 · Jun 3, 2006

hmmm when i go into gamestop they have a nice section of pc games, but yea certain stores are getting low on the pc games, i only go to gamestop to buy my games since they seem to have the most games on there shelves.

Phoenix87 · Jun 3, 2006

OC Noob said:
Saving it from being just a diminutive niche in the gaming market or the red headed step child of the gaming market?

Sure this will be unpopular here, but when has that ever stopped me and why should we ignore something thats happening just because we don't like it.

Additional disclaimer, it is true that 1 persons experience does not mean much in the big picture and my region of the world is very different from yours, so i would like some input about these trends.

Last disclaimer, this is NOT a "is PC gaming dying" thread because we know it is NOT.

So I walk into my local EB Games to pick up a copy of HL2 since I gave mine to my brother and wanted to play it again before playing episode Uno. that and I wanted to see what this 1900XT could do.

Anyway, short story long, I hit the PC game wall and it was freakin GONE! I asked the clerk where the PC games where and they were on an endcap type shelf in the middle of the floor. He went on to tell my they almost got rid of them entirely because only a few popular online titles sell well. Which I guess makes sense because 90% of us are all playing the same 10 or so titles, maybe closer to 5.

Anyway, in Phx here the only plces to get a good selection of PC games anymore are the large PC stores like CompUSA, Best Buy, Fry's Electronics, etc.

The AAA titles sell well and are in great shape, but how often are the smaller devs or even smaller titles from larger publishers/devs selling well enough to make it worth while? Obviously in this region they are not, otherwise all the small walls of PC games would not be disapearing in leu of racks 1/4th the size.

So MS has their console and makes it very easy and cheap to port a console game to the PC and visa versa and these smaller devs/non-AAA titles from larger pubs can be made for a platform where they will sell decently and be ported to the PC to amke a few extra bucks where a more expensive port or developement would not be worth the time and effort.

It is very possible that MS is keeping the number of titles released for the PC up and increasing the diversity of our libraries when so many people complain they are harming PC gaming. After all, if the money isn't there devs are going to leave anyway, atleast this way when they leave we still see their product instead of getting left in the cold, which is where we probably belong for being so narrow minded in our gaming habits. i.e. FPS, MMO and the occasional RTS or RPG and those almost strictly AAA titles.

Feel free to reply with your thoughts, flames (within forums rules of course), whatever.

1. If PC gaming isnt dying, why make this post?

2. Why would some no name game from the 360 succeed more on the PC compared to a regular PC game from a no name company? People sure as hell dont buy games because they say microsoft on them.

z0n3 · Jun 3, 2006

Phoenix87 said:
2. Why would some no name game from the 360 succeed more on the PC compared to a regular PC game from a no name company? People sure as hell dont buy games because they say microsoft on them.

Because of uninformed consumers.

Is Microsoft saving PC gaming?

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