Which cpu block would you recommend?

dylskee · Jul 3, 2006

I'm having some load temperature problems with my Cedar Mill and i'm looking for the best water block for this cpu. I'm currently using a Swiftech Apogee which is a pretty good water block but my load temps are going about 20°c higher than my idle temps. My current setup is as follows; 651 Cedar Mill @4.4GHz/1.3125v, ambient temperature is about 23°c Idle=26°c load=46°c. I'm not too happy with the temperature spread on this chip and i think it might be the water block. Here's a little background from my post in the Intel Cpu section. http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=466201

This is the Apogee i'm using now-http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swapexpebl.html

These are the two blocks i am considering replacing it with- Swiftech STORM Rev 2 Universal High Performance block-http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swstunhipebl.html

Or the Silver TDX Block- http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=186&cat=61&page=1

Would either of these make much of a difference? I would appreciate your opinions or suggestions. Thanks

SiGfever · Jul 3, 2006

What pump and rad are you using?

dylskee · Jul 3, 2006

SiGfever said:
What pump and rad are you using?

In my sig.

frostmeister · Jul 3, 2006

Too close to call on whether it's your block or not; You're using 1/2" tubing throughout ya? any flow restrictions or elbows, or long runs of tubing? What sort of fans are they on the rad? I know you only need a basic airflow, but maybe shrouding your fans and standing them off the rad a touch might help if they're not already. Strange though as it seems your setup is pretty decent throughout. Only seems to struggle on load... Meh. Maybe a new block would fix it, but apart from my suggestions, I'm not completely sure.

dylskee · Jul 3, 2006

Yeah, if you read my post from the cpu section it seems its just my Cedar Mill's that load real high. This is the kit that i bought http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swh2edukit.html

I was running a 930 @4GHZ/1.3v and my idle temp was 27°c and full load was 38°c, so you can understand why i'm a little confused with my load temps on my 651, and i also had a 661 with very similar results.

frostmeister · Jul 3, 2006

Have you mounted the block recently? Is thermal paste taking a wee while to bed in? Is it mounted a-ok? Just on a quick note, looking at your reservior, you might like to try taknig it out the loop and using a t-line temporarily, just to see the effect. Looks like a flow bottleneck to me. I've tried a few res designs and found that a vortex design where an offset inlet "spins" the water in a circular tube, to be extracted at the bottom works best. Quiet, effective, no splashing (or very little) and looks cool to boot.

Alchemy1 · Jul 3, 2006

I would try reapplying your TIM and remounting your WB. I am using the same pump and waterblock (I also have a VGA block in my loop) and I run about 11°c over idle temps. My temps should be higher than yours given I am using a 90nm chip and more voltage (also a hot @55 x1900xt in the loop).

scott d · Jul 3, 2006

I think your block isn't the problem, the apogee should be able to handle that heat load. What kind of fans do you have on your rad? The first thing I would try is making sure your waterblock is making good contact with your cpu. Are you sure it's tightened all the way down?

dylskee · Jul 4, 2006

Yeah i'm sure i have the block installed correctly. Its a pretty simple design, it has 4 acorn nuts that bottom out with equal pressure on all 4 corners. I have tried several remounts with the same results.

Here's a pic of the mount-

scott d · Jul 4, 2006

what temps did you get on air? (if you ever had it running on air)

dylskee · Jul 4, 2006

scott d said:
what temps did you get on air? (if you ever had it running on air)

Never had the Cedar mill's on air.

The_Jizzler · Jul 4, 2006

afaik youre not gonna see that big of a diff between a apogee and a storm. maybe a few degrees, but not enough imop to fix your dilemma. more rad/more pump are the best bang for the buck fixes.

dylskee · Jul 4, 2006

I know its not a pump issue, i've got a real strong pump and a decent radiator with some delta fans. I just find it strange that my 930 @4.GHz/1.35v it loaded @38°c max and my Cedar Mill's @ stock speed and 1.25v it idles @23°c and loads to 42°c. I put my 930 back in this morning just to see what my load temps would hit and it maxed out @38°c. Put my Cedar Mill back in and 42°c at stock settings. The only thing i can think of is the water block not getting good contact with the IHS on the 651.

Ta10n · Jul 4, 2006

It must be the IHS or something really strange and unheard of because the Pentium D DEFINATELY puts out more heat than the P4

frostmeister · Jul 5, 2006

Have you lapped the IHS on either? I remember someone saying about this being more effective on A64 cpu's that Intels, but it might be worth a shot. I'm going to give my A64 a lap when I take my rig apart, for what it's worth. For that matter, might be worth lapping your block, but I suspect that it's ok, as I think I'm right in saying those blocks are quite well pre-lapped and flatness tested? And it seems to work ok on your other chip of course... Just a thought anyway

QuietIce · Jul 5, 2006

Although I'm running a Storm (& MCW60) instead of an Apogee I can't imagine there being that much difference in them. My Opty runs 2.8 GHz @ 1.53v and loads at +12°C and that's with the MCP655 turned down to P4.

Are you sure you didn't leave out a small spacer or something from the block mount? I'm looking at that bag of parts I've got left over from the Storm install (it's the same mount as the Apogee) for socket 462, 478, 775, 603/604 and there are several small washers and lock washers in there. Since the length of the bolt is fixed by the acorn nuts and bolt head then the pressure on the chip is directly related to the spacers and other hardware between them. If it's not that then maybe some air in the rad or something?

I don't think you're gonna' find a much better water cooling solution than an Apogee and an MCP655 ...

dylskee · Jul 5, 2006

^^^ Yeah, i installed it exactly how the directions explain. I even tried some regular 6-32 nuts and cranked them an extra turn to get better contact but i got the same exact results. I've swapped my 651 and my 930 several times with the results being almost identical with each chip. The coolest i can get the chips to run is 25°c with an ambient temperature of about 22c and the 930 will load @39° and the Cedar Mill will load in the mid to upper 40's. I think i'm going to sell my 930 and invest in a TEC setup.

The_Jizzler · Jul 7, 2006

just outta curiosity, do these readings come from a motherboard sensor or a on-die sensor?

Tekko · Jul 8, 2006

well personnaly I would say keep the apogee since on a IHS chip it's probably within 0.5-1.0c of the G4/Storm (either swiftech or Cathar made). I would check the flatness of your Cedar Mill IHS. Maybe check for kinks you may be doing something different when you put either "permanent" chip(the 651) and the "test" chip (the 930), I know it's a long shot but still possible.

dylskee · Jul 8, 2006

The_Jizzler said:
just outta curiosity, do these readings come from a motherboard sensor or a on-die sensor?

I believe it's a die sensor, but i'm not positive.

Tekko said:
well personnaly I would say keep the apogee since on a IHS chip it's probably within 0.5-1.0c of the G4/Storm (either swiftech or Cathar made). I would check the flatness of your Cedar Mill IHS. Maybe check for kinks you may be doing something different when you put either "permanent" chip(the 651) and the "test" chip (the 930), I know it's a long shot but still possible.

I am going to keep this water block but i think i'm going to try my luck with TEC. I have tried everything with this chip, it just runs hot @load, plain and simple. I'll wack it with some thermal electric cooling and see what i get then. Thanks for all the replies though, much appreciated. :beer:

Which cpu block would you recommend?

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