AMD + ATI = Good linux drivers?

I guess this could go in the ATI section but this is a better place IMO. More linuxy people.

I'm starting to think fairly possitively about the AMD/ATI buyout. For as long as I can remember, I've seen Linux support on AMD's website, mainly drivers that are for the various tasks the CPU would perform (like PowerNow, etc). This is udnerstandable of course, especialyl since you are a chipmaker. Anyone could use a broad number of operating systems on that chip, as its more a general product than, say, a graphics card. Everyone needs a CPU, but not everyone needs a great GPU.

But with AMD owning a majority of ATI, do you think its possible their Linux suport might improve? Or their drivers in general for that matter? That would be wicked, IMO. I love both of these companies, and the only thing I have agasint ATI is their drivers. I am REALLY hoping this changes things. With AMD's recognition of Linux and how important it is to the market, its possible that they will transfer that higher way of thinking to ATI. We shall see.

We certian'y wont see any immediate results, especialyl since they haven't finished merging and wont until september or so. But we will see.

Thoughts?

Well, I cant see it hurting anything. Granted, I think they need to go mafioso and kidnap some nVidia driver guys and lock em up in a room with ATi cards to get some good Linux drivers for now at least

I didnt even know AMD was buying out ATI...guess the two underdogs are getting together (is ATI still the underdog? God, last time I was in the nVidia ATi discussions was when the 9500 Pro was the best card for the money on the market, lol)

On that note, however...I dont necessarily see a change in staff just because AMD will buy them out. While it is possible that could, we'll never know until it happens.

Evnas said:

Well, I cant see it hurting anything. Granted, I think they need to go mafioso and kidnap some nVidia driver guys and lock em up in a room with ATi cards to get some good Linux drivers for now at least

I didnt even know AMD was buying out ATI...guess the two underdogs are getting together (is ATI still the underdog? God, last time I was in the nVidia ATi dicussions was when the 9500 Pro was the best card for the money on the market, lol)

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ATI is, yeah, being a smaller company as I recall. I agree though they need to steal some nvidia guys, or at LEAST sit down and sort it out. But with AMD sitting in the drivers seat, and their main product beign server stuff, I am sure they will be using ATI in the server market as well. With server market stuff, comes linux support (generally, if you want to sell it), and with that comes better linux support for all products.

Cheator said:

With server market stuff, comes linux support (generally, if you want to sell it), and with that comes better linux support for all products.

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Or simply support for whatever OS they put on their servers. It could be a tricky thing, as nVidia and ATI drivers technically violate GNU/Linux licensing anyways

Evnas said:

Or simply support for whatever OS they put on their servers. It could be a tricky thing, as nVidia and ATI drivers technically violate GNU/Linux licensing anyways

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True. But still, there is a nice chance that with the co-operation of both companies, they'll support more than Windows and MacOSX.

Everyone needs a CPU, but not everyone needs a great GPU.

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I think that's ATI's reasoning, and it's why they have zero support in the *nix markets. Which is just stupid. Something as simple as writing a good driver set would make you a viable option for a whole other section of the market, and you won't do it. In fact, you make snide comments about it.

If AMD does buy them, I hope it's a flat-out purchase so that some of the retards at ATI can be fired and a real driver team be hired.

shadin said:

I think that's ATI's reasoning, and it's why they have zero support in the *nix markets. Which is just stupid. Something as simple as writing a good driver set would make you a viable option for a whole other section of the market, and you won't do it. In fact, you make snide comments about it.

If AMD does buy them, I hope it's a flat-out purchase so that some of the retards at ATI can be fired and a real driver team be hired.

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It was. http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/95-07242006-687932.html

It was. A majority buyout. This is why it might incite change .

Ya know, after reading that article, something came to mind...didnt ATI make a chipset for Intel processors for a time?

But not anymore: Intel revoked/didn't extend their P4 license.

Btw: I really want your optimism about drivers guys. That much wishful thinking should be bottled and given to clinical depressed people.

Has anyone ever seen a decent OpenGL driver from ATI on any platform compared to nvidia ones?

Evnas said:

nVidia and ATI drivers technically violate GNU/Linux licensing anyways

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Do they? I was always under the impression that the GPL doesn't put any restrictions on the kinds of software that's distributed alongside the GPL'd software. At least, I'm pretty sure that stipulation is in the Free Software Definition as defined by the FSF. Which means to me that as long as their closed-source drivers are supplied as modules, they don't violate the GPL's stipulation on derivative works. Of course, I'm no lawyer, I could be wrong.

On the issue of driver quality, assuming that the comments on AMD's linux support are true (I've no experience with which to form a valid judgement) I would say it's possible, even likely that the quality will go up. If they don't right away, a letter to AMD might be enough to have them breathe on ATi's necks until things get better. As long as it doesn't come by Mr. Ruiz's desk, that is

actually I think you are right, ponkan. I think its that they are a third party software, after the fact. Like buying VMware.

They don't violate the license, AFAIK. They do taint the kernel, meaning you aren't running a 100% GPL kernel/drivers with the ati/nvidia drivers open. Ideally, ati and nvidia would release opensource drivers, and update them regularly (and accept submissions). I doubt that will happen.

ponkan pinoy said:

Do they? I was always under the impression that the GPL doesn't put any restrictions on the kinds of software that's distributed alongside the GPL'd software. At least, I'm pretty sure that stipulation is in the Free Software Definition as defined by the FSF. Which means to me that as long as their closed-source drivers are supplied as modules, they don't violate the GPL's stipulation on derivative works. Of course, I'm no lawyer, I could be wrong.

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According to the Free Software Foundation they do. Heres a link to an interesting read that the maker of the Kororaa Project (Gentoo based XGL Live CD) put that very question to the FSF

This is a reply from the Free Software Foundation to the questions I asked in reply to the original email from them (if you didn't see the original email from the FSF, you can find it here).

In essence, the FSF stand by their opinion that the nVidia and ATI drivers (and binary modules in general) DO violate GPL license.

There seem to be a few contradictions to me, but it's here in its entirety so have a read for yourself (it's not very long) and let us know what you think!

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http://kororaa.org/index.php

this liscensing is grey area, however their is a gpl compatability layer that interfaces the kernel with the graphic drivers (for ati and nvidia) so the kernel is not directly interfacing with nonGPL code so it is not a violation of the gpl.

Stallman would like us to think otherwise but it is simply not true. (the guy is a lunatic)

No optomism here.