[lackdog]

I just upgraded from a 4000+ to a 4800+ X2 and i got a few questions if yah guys don't mind me asking. First here is my setup:

4800+ with a hyoer 6 cooler and lots of case cooling, 2 x 512 corsair XMS 3200XL memory (default 2-2-2-5), 7950GX2, 2 x raptors raid 0, MSI K8N neo4 platinum SLI, coolermaster real power 550 PSU.

I was able to run my 4000+ at 2.83ghz all day stable as a rock with all that same stuff above. 236FSB, memory at 2-3-3-6, 3xHTT, mem volt at 2.85, CPU voltage at I forget but ofcourse higher than default.

I got the new 4800+ slapped it in and was hoping to get the same overclock as my 4000+. No luck though with same bios settings. I have the voltage maxed that my mobo bios will allow ( 1.4 volts with 9.9%) and in cpu-Z it says my cpu volt is 1.456-1.488 fluctuating. I am so far at 2.71ghz with a 226FSB. when i try for 2.8ghz it wont boot or will sometimes but blue screens, etc. at 2.71 max load temps are about 49-50c.

I was really wanting to hit 2.8 so in things that just use 1 core it would have the same performance as my old 4000+. Does anyone have any ideas of how I can acheive 2.8 stable with my setup? Thanks!

4800+ CPU specs

Toledo
Revision: JH-E6
Brand ID: 5

[Avg]

Well overclocking is not guaranteed so don't expect a higher end chip to oc higher, after all they are made of the same waffer.

Things you could do to improve your overclock is to do a burn in,

[lackdog]

Not expecting a higher OC, just a similar one. 4000+ 2.4ghz stock same clocks as a 4800+ 2.4 ghz stock. I was just expecting them to clock the same. It is only 400mhz.

[Avg]

I know but they are the same arch, come from the same silicone that was used to make the 4000+, using the same technology, and now you have two of them creating a lot more heat, your are already borderline on your temp, you shouldn't increase voltage any higher, and increasing frequency will also leave you with a hotter chip. It seems your psu is having trouble keeping up with your computer, check the 12v rail it shouldn't go below 11.6v if it does you'll most likely experience unstability. If you still want to go higher, you'll need better cooling and a mobo that offers higher voltage, and if you psu turns out to be overpowered you'll need to replace that as well.

Look at my setup, my x2 does 2.8ghz but it needs more voltage then your mobo offers, and my load temp hovers around 48c and that is because I have a pretty expensive water cooling setup dedicated to the cpu alone.

[lackdog]

Core center shows my 12 volt at like 11.84 -11.9 all the time just sitting there with vcore 1.47, 3.3 is always at like 3.25 and 5v is at 4.92. My PSU is a triple 12v rail PSU and supposidly rated as a great PSU...rated at 550 but when that one guy who does video reviews reviewed it, it was more like a 650watt PSU. i caN live with 2.7 but yah know how it is....always like to have a equal to or greater than when u "upgrade".

[AlabamaCajun]

Back all of it to default, you have to retrain your mobo to feed the memory controller the right clocks. I've gotten DDR2-533 value memory factory set for 4-4-4-10 VDimm 1.9V running at DDR2-550 for 3-3-3-9 VDimm 1.8V. How I did it was to back the memory to DDR2-400 and raise the HTT clock 10-15 each time until I reached 275. All other memory settings are on auto. Your board will be different but it should work with setting it's memory timing signals. If auto does not work, you may have to work with higher lats until you locate your highest HTT (FSB).

My ECS board has a setting for DQS training which sets up the memory strobe for dual channel. If I try to manually tweek memory, it won't post. This is the strangest board I've seen since the TwinHead 386 in 1991 that hauled a**.

[Avg]

Wait, your vcore is 1.7, I though it was at 1.4v, and my mistake I though you had two GX2, you should be fine with you psu. But check your rail unde load that is when the computer is really sucking power.

edit: Just in case your vcore is at 1.7v, let me tell you that it's isn't safe to run such high vcore.

[davidk21770]

If you look around, you won't see many 4800+'s at or above 2800. I can get mine there on a cool day and have it be prime stable (8 hours +). But I find that it's very room temperature sensitive which means that I need more cooling (working on that). You were lucky and got a good 4000+. You may not have been as lucky with the 4800+.

They also need to burn in. I found that I'd max mine out and run for a week and then I could get a little more. I kept doing that to get to my current OC. (just under 2.8). When I get a little more cooling on my system, I'm going to push a little more. (In January, I was 2832).

Watch volts. You'll kill the onboard memory controller without seeing a temperature problem. I wouldn't go over 1.65v and near there I'd check with a DMM to see what I'm actually getting (not what's reported or set).

[lackdog]

1.47 for vcore not 1.7 - I misstyped then edited but u read it before I made the edit. What do you guys think is holding me back though? HEAT? I was thinking about making the switch to h2o cooling if it would help.

[davidk21770]

To get to 2800 with my 4800+, I need to keep the CPU below 45C with a VCore of about 1.61v. I also needed to burn it in for a few weeks at lower voltages / clocks (pushed). Some recommend burning it in while it's unstable. The amount of time that I spent testing probably counts as some of that also .

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by lackdog

1.47 for vcore not 1.7 - I misstyped then edited but u read it before I made the edit. What do you guys think is holding me back though? HEAT? I was thinking about making the switch to h2o cooling if it would help.

I think your vCore is holding you back. My Opty 180 (virtually the same as the 4800) would only OC to 2656 (221x12) @ 1.45v, the default vCore for this board. Once I pushed that up to 1.525v I tweaked it up to 2796 (233x12).

Something about your vCore that's strange, though - is that 1.400 plus 10%? If so, you should have 1.540v there ...

[lackdog]

yah in bios it says 1.54 but in every prog i check in, it shows less. I was thinking about buying a water cooling setup. A Thermaltake Silent Water. Just a simple copper deal with a 120mm fan/radiator and mini pump kinda all in one. You guys think that would be a wise decision seeing that i got a lot of volts to the core and load temps are about 49-52 deping on room temp?

[AlabamaCajun]

QuietIce, I wonder what is holding you back from HTT of 240-250. I am considering a 180 in the future but hoped it would get to 240 at least. Harlam357 has a 170 at 270*10 or 2.7G.

[hitbyaprkedcar7]

^^ if its a recent opty, most of the more recent ones have been terrible overclockers. Most of the newer 165's can only hit 2.4 at the most... I was considering a 165 against my 4800+ i just bought, (it was a little cheaper) but then i read reviews and stuff with people posting that newer ones could only hit 2.4, which is the stock of a 4800+ so i just went with that. the 165's used to be able to hit 2.7, 2.8. and even 2.9 if your lucky..

Seems like the good opty clockin' days are over

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by lackdog

yah in bios it says 1.54 but in every prog i check in, it shows less. I was thinking about buying a water cooling setup. A Thermaltake Silent Water. Just a simple copper deal with a 120mm fan/radiator and mini pump kinda all in one. You guys think that would be a wise decision seeing that i got a lot of volts to the core and load temps are about 49-52 deping on room temp?

Water might increase your speed - you should be able to run all day under load @ ~40°C or less. But my Opty was running 2760 just fine even at 60°C (stock air) , which is where I chickened out and went to WC.

Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun

QuietIce, I wonder what is holding you back from HTT of 240-250. I am considering a 180 in the future but hoped it would get to 240 at least. Harlam357 has a 170 at 270*10 or 2.7G.

The reference clock isn't limited to 240 MHz though the CPU has a stable limit of ~2800 MHz (removal of the IHS may be in my future ). The reference clock will run up to ~320, the HT Bus to ~1120, and RAM to 260 (haven't tested it farther). The "official" top stable speed is 255x11 (2805) and XP Pro will run at 260x11 with one stable core. By running 233x12 I lose 9-10% on memory performance but it runs cooler - the chipset is still on air.

Originally Posted by hitbyaprkedcar7

^^ if its a recent opty, most of the more recent ones have been terrible overclockers. Most of the newer 165's can only hit 2.4 at the most... I was considering a 165 against my 4800+ i just bought, (it was a little cheaper) but then i read reviews and stuff with people posting that newer ones could only hit 2.4, which is the stock of a 4800+ so i just went with that. the 165's used to be able to hit 2.7, 2.8. and even 2.9 if your lucky..

Seems like the good opty clockin' days are over

Those days aren't over, I think the chips are just speed-binned now. Mine tops out @ 2800 (on water) and it was running 2760 on stock air but the heatpipe system wouldn't let me test 2x Prime95 for long b/c of the extra heat near the CPU. 3DMark05 and SuperPi were running just fine ...

[Hipcrostino]

good air cooling will outstrip water in some cases. I was going to go h2o, but back out when i found the BT and a delta fan for $100AUD total. Best thing i ever did, opty idles at 20-25C and load 30 with the delta on 7v. opty is at 2.7Ghz too (and in need of increasen)

[Avg]

Originally Posted by lackdog

yah in bios it says 1.54 but in every prog i check in, it shows less. I was thinking about buying a water cooling setup. A Thermaltake Silent Water. Just a simple copper deal with a 120mm fan/radiator and mini pump kinda all in one. You guys think that would be a wise decision seeing that i got a lot of volts to the core and load temps are about 49-52 deping on room temp?

The problem is that the Tt kit isn't that much better then high end air cooling which costs a lot less then the kit does.

[AlabamaCajun]

Originally Posted by QuietIce

The reference clock isn't limited to 240 MHz though the CPU has a stable limit of ~2800 MHz (removal of the IHS may be in my future ). The reference clock will run up to ~320, the HT Bus to ~1120, and RAM to 260 (haven't tested it farther). The "official" top stable speed is 255x11 (2805) and XP Pro will run at 260x11 with one stable core. By running 233x12 I lose 9-10% on memory performance but it runs cooler - the chipset is still on air.

Man you just hit a point, good post and saved me some bucks. I'll consirder the 175 and just shoot for 250 -260 which will put the cpu in around 2800. If it goes higher then great but it's better than getting the 180 to find it stops around 23x. Also on the heat, running several rigs all different, I notice differences in heat output. Some I have not be able or time limited to set optimum HTT to mem clocks. The optomized rigs ar hotter where the others seem to stay cool. After getting the Sempi in AM2, I've seen some impressive results messing with the memory and not even pushing them real hard with voltage as most are stock or slightly above.

[lackdog]

Well I just went out and bought a Corsair Natilus 500 H20 cooling kit. Super simple to install and temps dropped like mad. idle is a few degrees above ambiant room temp and full load so far is only 42. I am at 2.81ghz now with the same voltage and so far no lockups. I need to run some things though to check for all around stabilty... I just installed the water cooling kit 5 minutes ago. I'm able to type this though with no lockups so I guess so far so good. LOL. will post later after some benching and heat generating

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun

Man you just hit a point, good post and saved me some bucks. I'll consider the 175 and just shoot for 250 -260 which will put the cpu in around 2800. If it goes higher then great but it's better than getting the 180 to find it stops around 23x. Also on the heat, running several rigs all different, I notice differences in heat output. Some I have not be able or time limited to set optimum HTT to mem clocks. The optomized rigs ar hotter where the others seem to stay cool. After getting the Sempi in AM2, I've seen some impressive results messing with the memory and not even pushing them real hard with voltage as most are stock or slightly above.

I've suggested that for many people.

If you're going for a cool & mild overclock then the 180 is the way to go b/c chances are you'll get a higher CPU speed at near stock voltage (mine went to 2656 @ 1.42v).

If you wanna' push the limit (which seems to be 28-2900 on average for an X2/Opteron) then get a 170 or 175. As you pointed out, the 175 is a good chip b/c you can usually get RAM that'll run at 1:1 (with looser timings) as you near the top end of the CPU. The 170 is also a good choice b/c it's a little cheaper and you can still reach the top end with a fair MB though you'll probably have to down-clock the RAM, which usually degrades RAM performance in addition to the down-clock.

IMO, the 165 needs a really good board to reach top end, if it ever makes it. That 9x multiplier was a deal killer for me - 9x 310+, no thanks ...