Advice on server box

I'm setting up a network for a private school. Read more here.

So for a server that I am going to build them, I want to keep it under $600 for everything.

Here is what I was thinking.
E6300? Maybe a 915 instead.
A motherboard with matrix raid
2 x 25 gig Perp. Segate drives (Wish they had smaller & cheaper drives that were perp.)
2 gigs of ram (or is that an over kill and 1 gig is fine?)
Cheap gfx if the mobo dosen't have intergrated.
NIC?
PSU
Case

The price also needs to include the operating system.



I was thinking about going with maybe an X2 or opteron setup, but I don't get matrix raid then, and I was thinking of running 0+1 for this server.

Thanks for your helps guys, I haven't really built a server that will run all this (smoothwall, printer sharing, bunch of educational software, and itself be used as the teachers computer. Yeah thats another thing, this isn't going to be locked away, it will be sitting in the computer lab and be used as the teachers computer.)

Two things that come off the top of my mind...

If it's going to be a server, do not make it a machine that a teacher can logon to! The teacher should have their own seperate machine and not use a production server for personal use.

Also, it would be a better idea for you to look at a OEM system for a server. It simply is not worth the hassle to support and maintain a server for a school or business that is not your own. Plus an OEM will be able to send you repair parts quickly and have qualified technicians to install the parts.

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You would probably need a server with these specs for a basic system:
2.8 GHZ Xeon or AMD equivalent
1 GB RAM (2 GB Recommended)
2x 73GB 10k RPM SCSI Drives in a RAID-1 Configuration
Case with redundant power supplies
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If you cannot afford a lump sum, what about a lease or payment plan? Most OEM's would be more than willing to help a school out...

Let me know if you have any other questions.

I think you're wanting too much out of one box. You can't/shouldn't use a smoothwall box as a normal computer, and the teacher shouldn't be using a server. (Besides, $600 for a server including OS is nothing) Sounds like you just need a beefy computer for the teacher to use and run some other stuff on. If they want a real server tell them to pony up at least $1k if not $2k.

Depending on the size of the network, you really *don't* need a lot of machine (not counting memory) to run smoothwall, printer services, and network shares (ala samba or similar). I used to have a medium sized business as a client that had several offices with 15-30 computers in each office, and the servers were typically recycled old machines. In one office, the main server was a p2-233.

What I do completely agree with here is the advice NOT to allow people to log in to the server - that's just a really bad idea. Typically you want a server locked away in a safe location - preferably where no one can get to it, but in a back corner of the headmaster's / principal's office (or similar) is ok.

Anyway, for a network of up to ~25 clients, you can really lowball the machine, but don't skimp on memory. A low-heat processor in an airy case (how dusty is the location it will be at?) with a solid power supply and lots of memory, and storage tailored to the job with room to grow.

Also consider backup options. Any hard drive you buy could completely die within a few months or a year, and the safe bet is to just assume it's going to happen and use proper backup methods. (my personal favorite is removeable enclosures, and train a secretary or 'school officer' to take one home every night in case of fire.)

Well you can't or really shouldn't be running all of that stuff on a single box. Smoothwall is best run on a regular old low end PC for your needs. If you start running it as a print server, file server, regular PC, etc. it becomes less and less secure. Smoothwall gets its own box please.

Same goes for using a server as a regular PC. It is bad enough when a PCgets filled with spyware, viruses, and whatever other junk happens with regular use. It is just worse when it is a server that everyone is using. Get a real server, setup as such, and don't let anyone use it. $600 is unrealistic though. You will need W2K3 Server plus all the CALs for it, blew your budget plus some right there most likely. The hardware doesn't need to be super powerful for such a small network, but still should be setup as a server. That would mean multiple drives in a RAID array, plenty of RAM, and some sort of backup plan. Plus you would probably want a anti-virus solution that you can run form the server, and maybe net monitoring/limiting software as well.

Basically I just finished specing out a server with all software for a compnay that has 20-30 people. It is coming in around $5,000+ for everything they need. That doesn't include what they already have from the old server. I would say either do it right, or just don't do it at all. Trying to push a server into such a tiny budget, and having it be a do all box, just won't end good.

Smoothwall will get its own box. That takes care of firewall + network antivirus.

As of right now I'm not sure if they want server 2k3 or if I can't convince them to use a linux distro. Linux (Debian/Gentoo/edubunutu?) are free. Can I say save a few hundred to over a thousand dollars there? I'm not sure all their software they want will be able to run off of linux though. So thats that.

I hadn't really thought about a back up solution thing yet...I need to look into that.

Dell looks like the best deal so far.



One other thing is that all these computers are running XP Home. They bought all those 12 emachines without my knowledge, and I think they got them from best buy...so I know that brings up more challenges with the whole thing about setting up this server.

Thanks guys.

Well XP Home can't join a domain, so that is the end of that story. You will either need to set them up in a workgroup and use the server as file/print server, or upgrade all PCs to XP Pro.

Also Smoothwall isn't a network antivirus solution. It can be modded to do scanning of webpages and such, but it isn't a final solution. You will still need a AV scanner installed at each PC.

2k3 - there is about $600 MIN for that o/s so their goes buying any computers

I wonder with 2k3...education discount? Need to have them call and talk to M$.

XP home......damit.....there is no work around for it to connect to a domain? For example I set them all up using doug's XP security console, which is a 3rd party program that gives you all the features of the XP Pro group policies editor.

for the case, look into a yeong yang cube(0221). I love mine personaly. 6 slots for opty drive, two floppy slots, 8hdd slots, and all of it is either on rails or in removable cradles.

Shelnutt2 you have pm.

Shelnutt2 said:

I wonder with 2k3...education discount? Need to have them call and talk to M$.

XP home......damit.....there is no work around for it to connect to a domain? For example I set them all up using doug's XP security console, which is a 3rd party program that gives you all the features of the XP Pro group policies editor.

Click to expand...

If the server 2003 license doesn't break your bank, the Client Access Licenses (CALs) will. You will need a CAL for each computer or each user to access any resources on the server (other than websites). I know Accelerated Reader uses file shares extensively, so that is another thing you will need to look out for.

You will spend close to $600 (including the educational discount) on Server 2003 and 10 CALs (the server 2003 license includes 5 'free' CALs).

Just for confirmation, XP Home cannot join a domain; only XP Professional can; AFAIK, there are no workarounds.

Shelnutt2 said:

Smoothwall will get its own box. That takes care of firewall + network antivirus.

As of right now I'm not sure if they want server 2k3 or if I can't convince them to use a linux distro. Linux (Debian/Gentoo/edubunutu?) are free. Can I say save a few hundred to over a thousand dollars there? I'm not sure all their software they want will be able to run off of linux though. So thats that.

I hadn't really thought about a back up solution thing yet...I need to look into that.

Dell looks like the best deal so far.



One other thing is that all these computers are running XP Home. They bought all those 12 emachines without my knowledge, and I think they got them from best buy...so I know that brings up more challenges with the whole thing about setting up this server.

Thanks guys.

Click to expand...

Actually, the software won't cost them much at all as a educational outfit. Have them check out Softwarehouse International for the operating systems, and any other MS stuff for that matter. They have outstanding educational pricing, and we use them for a the majority of our purchases (I run the data center for a very large school system).

You're probably going to have to stick with MS for the operating system. Most educational software won't run on anything but Windows or the Mac OS.

As for the xp home, they'll need to bag it. You can't participate in a domain with it, and it's impossible to secure even a little bit, not that Pro is much better.

I'd also bag the idea of a $600 server. You will probably spend that in RAM alone, because you're going to want to put as much in as you can. The good news is that you don't have to go buck wild on the processor. Most of the software they will ever want to use is usually nothing much more than a glorified file share, so they rarely use much processing power.

I'd buy a motherboard that is dual proc capable, but only populate it with one dual core to start. The opterons are nice, and have a low power requirement. I'd look into one of those if I was on a tight budget. We use all HP end to end, but we don't spend less than 6 grand on a sever, and have much higher requirements than you.

Make sure, no matter what you do, you secure the server physically and do not, under any circumstances, give the passwords for it to a teacher unless they are very tech savy and you can trust them. Because what will happen is they will log on the computers for the little bastar..., er, darlings using their own password rather than one for the students...and if you give them elevated privileges, the kids WILL be surfing porn and hitting myspace minutes later. The biggest security risk is likely going to come first, from the teachers, and second from the students. Most states have laws about protecting the little darlings against seeing adult content, so you have to do due diligence in making sure they don't have access.

peace,