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Old 01-18-07, 03:40 PM Thread Starter   #1
MarkS
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Send your 8800's back! GOD has spoken!


http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5665

Lol. I get the point he is trying to make, but I hate it when someone who is well known in the technology business says that a certain technology is "not for now". Kind of, no exactly as, Bill Gates stating that we'll never need more than 684K RAM.

How about encouraging the purchase of DX10 cards to spur developers to make games to take advantage of it?
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Old 01-18-07, 03:54 PM   #2
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He is just pointing out that software is having a hard time keeping up with hardware. It's the chicken and the egg theory, the hardware has got come first then the software. It will be awhile before DX10 can prove itself.
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Old 01-18-07, 03:59 PM Thread Starter   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadman93723
He is just pointing out that software is having a hard time keeping up with hardware. It's the chicken and the egg theory, the hardware has got come first then the software. It will be awhile before DX10 can prove itself.
I know, but still... He COULD make some software that takes advantage of the hardware, but runs (with fewer features) on DX9 cards. I don't like the way Microsoft has bundled this with Vista, but then how do we really know that it does not need Vista? Regardless, is that a reason not to develop softwar to take advantage of the new technology?
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Old 01-18-07, 04:18 PM   #4
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Its just once persons opinion. You need to do what you want to do, and not what some one else's opinion tells you to.

No i have no idea who he is, but ill bet a pint that he has a 8800GTX.
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Old 01-18-07, 04:22 PM   #5
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this guy looks more nerdy than bill gates!

okay... on with my reading... just wanted to subscribe at the same time i read.

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Old 01-18-07, 04:30 PM   #6
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okay what the heck is an asymmetric CPU??

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Old 01-18-07, 05:37 PM   #7
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one piece of software that will really showcase the 8 series cards' insane caps is gonna be Crysis. Watch the trailers that game is INCREDIBLE.

This game takes advantage of the 8 series capabilities more than any other game will in the near future. The lighting is INSANE, and with the adition of the physics card... Well you'll see:

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/69...90/vids_1.html

If you haven't seen this, this is a must
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Old 01-18-07, 10:44 PM   #8
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I remember him talking about how great the Geforce 3 was because he could do all this stuff with Doom 3. It's strange having him say that the old technology is still "ok".

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Old 01-18-07, 11:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick
one piece of software that will really showcase the 8 series cards' insane caps is gonna be Crysis. Watch the trailers that game is INCREDIBLE.

This game takes advantage of the 8 series capabilities more than any other game will in the near future. The lighting is INSANE, and with the adition of the physics card... Well you'll see:

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/69...90/vids_1.html

If you haven't seen this, this is a must
i think i've seen that b4... when's it come out? something like that would make me take the plunge and spend $500 on a vid card... sad as it may sound, i can see myself doing it...

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Old 01-19-07, 12:05 AM   #10
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I was just taking a look at those other Crysis trailers....insanity. I can't wait for this game! BTW an interesting article was on Gamespot.com the other day about DX10 and Crysis. Apparently a high-end dx9 system will get *almost* as good of image quality as a computer equipped with Vista and a DX10 video card. It should be great!

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Old 01-19-07, 12:12 AM   #11
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http://www.crysis-online.com/ has a lot of nice HD videos of crysis.

Back on topic, John Carmack sounds like a little baby. Seems like he's just crying because all this new tech makes things a little harder for him. Just because he can't keep up with new tech doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage it. Where would we be if everyone had this "Meh, it's good enough" attitude that John Carmack seems to have.

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Old 01-19-07, 12:43 AM   #12
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I think the following excerpt from the article is very true. I've read articles upon articles from vista and i'm very disapointed. It would have been fine two years ago but after 7 years in the making i'm not impressed.
"They’re artificially doing that by tying DX10 so close it, which is really nothing about the OS ... They’re really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it,” he said."
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Old 01-19-07, 01:12 AM   #13
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Sounds to me like whining because "it's too hard to write games for this new hardware". Awww...

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Old 01-19-07, 07:41 AM   #14
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Don't forget Carmack is basically one of the men responsble for giving us 3D gaming and makes people like Gabe Newell look like a noob with his super nerdness.
He is right though, technology moves far too fast now. If we slowed down a little and gave developers the time to work with the hardware without throwing something new in their face every 2 seconds, we would probably still get the same results without costing gamers an arm and a leg all the time. I think he is just trying to point out to the people that upgrade every two seconds the industry is just ripping you off.

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Old 01-19-07, 07:47 AM   #15
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At first it seemed like we replaced Directx 8.1 with 9 very quickly but 9 has had a long life span. It is time to move on to newer technologies. Maybe having a child has taken some time from his coding.

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Old 01-19-07, 08:08 AM   #16
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I don't think Carmack is whining at all (although if you've ever heard his speaking voice you may think so). He's simply saying that advances in technology for advancement's sake don't always benefit the consumer. Also, software always trails hardware by a generation or more.

Making games isn't an easy business. The money required up front is astounding - it's almost an entirely front-loaded business. Carmack is one of the most pragmatic game programmers out there, and is a lifelong student of graphics programming. Even Michael Abrash was in awe of the ability of Carmack to analyze a problem and develop the most workable solution in a short period of time. He's not a god, but he's pretty good at what he does. In his world, constant change in hardware is simply moving the finish line time and time again. From what I've read over the past 15 years, he's always sticking up for the consumer in terms of hardware, and is quick to point out the faults of a particular hardware design or product.

My point: he's looking out for the consumer, and he has sufficient reputation to influence hardware manufacturers in a way that benefits consumers. He certainly doesn't dictate what hardware companies do, but he's trying to make life easier for games programmers, which ultimately means more and better games for consumers.

His statements on the movement to multiple cores is enlightening. Moving to multiple cores requires a fundamental shift in how game engines are developed from the ground up.

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Old 01-19-07, 08:31 AM   #17
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Carmack has an axe of his own to grind. This quote is telling.

“I especially like the work I’m doing on the 360, and it’s probably the best graphics API as far as a sensibly designed thing that I’ve worked with.”

He cannot trash the work he is doing now, and he is using the DOOM3 engine with DX9. To recode that for DX10 would delay the game for a year. Since he is no longer on the bleeding edge of the curve, all he can do is sit back and poo poo.

He also downplayed the value of dual core CPUs in gaming, which we all have come to realize is just wrong. He definitely has an agenda, and DX10 and dual core CPUs are not part of the solution for his personal career choices.

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Old 01-19-07, 09:14 AM   #18
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Well that's a little harsh but I'm surprised that he is opposed to dx10 and dual cores. We had dx9 since 2002 and it's time for something new.

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Old 01-19-07, 09:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabulouscoops
He definitely has an agenda, and DX10 and dual core CPUs are not part of the solution for his personal career choices.
Well then we can't expect to see any games that will really open our eyes in awe.

At this particular moment, I think multi-core processors are the only solution to having more muscles for processing graphics. Single-core I guess isn't cutting it... and if that's what he wants, he's asking WAY TOO MUCH...

I can sorta understand how single-core would be much easier to code for, though...

Oh well, life happens, and I'm sure some other dude with enough education will replace him someday soon with support for newer tech... the world goes 'round...

Benjamin Franklin discovered the light bulb, but did he say we can't use florescent bulbs? Come on ppl... this guy has his points, but if there is another solution for progression, then so be it.

Technology will ALWAYS progress, and exponentially (imo)... it's a costly manner, but I'm enjoying it.

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Old 01-19-07, 10:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabulouscoops
Carmack has an axe of his own to grind. This quote is telling.

“I especially like the work I’m doing on the 360, and it’s probably the best graphics API as far as a sensibly designed thing that I’ve worked with.”

He cannot trash the work he is doing now, and he is using the DOOM3 engine with DX9. To recode that for DX10 would delay the game for a year. Since he is no longer on the bleeding edge of the curve, all he can do is sit back and poo poo.

He also downplayed the value of dual core CPUs in gaming, which we all have come to realize is just wrong. He definitely has an agenda, and DX10 and dual core CPUs are not part of the solution for his personal career choices.
EDIT: Also, please look at the original interview which DailyTech needlessly abridged and cribbed from: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Sto...034.htm?Page=1

I've been following Carmack for some time. He's always been the king of the pragmatists. I really think he's talking frankly about the technical issues, and doing so from a purely technical standpoint. Doom3 with D3D9? No, try OpenGL. Your analysis of this isn't based in fact.

He's not downplaying the value of multicore CPUs, but simply saying that it requires a paradigm shift in how games are developed. For the record, the doom engine scales pretty nicely on a multi-core CPU, and the multi-core patch has been applied to subsequent engines. But his point is this: it's much easier to develop for single-core systems than it is to develop for multi-core systems. No developer will disagree with this. He realizes that multi-core CPUs are a reality, and he's designing engines around this fact. But DX10 won't have widespread hardware support until at least calendar year 2008, and if the benefits aren't that great, then why cater to such a small crowd?

I really don't think he has an axe to grind here. He's a huge supporter of OpenGL (and open standards in general), and he's not entrenched in Direct3D 9, so I don't see where the bias is. I don't think you'll find a developer who isn't being paid for a platform exclusive who will tell you that Carmack is way off-base with his assertions here.

Crysis looks great - but as he indicates, it's not a shipping product. It may be soon, and it will look absolutely stunning, albeit on a very small percentage of end users' machines.

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