[Excelsior]

Incredible. The only way to describe the situation is incredible. I'm not an nVidia or Ati “fanboy” by any stretch of the imagination. I buy whichever videocard performs the best or is the best “bang for the buck” at the time of purchase. Not once in my fairly lengthy lifetime of purchasing videocards have I ever had issues of this magnitude ignored by a videocard manufacturer. Let me start from the beginning...

I upgraded from my BFG 7800 GT OC to a supposedly lovely BFG 8800 GTS – near top of the line at the time of this writing. The videocard isn't cheap at $500 retail new from the vendor at which I purchased it. So you can imagine my dismay when I discovered the apparent issue surrounding the 8800 line of videocards: the most shoddy drivers in the history of mankind.¹

So I loaded up the game I most frequently play these days: Counter-Strike: Source. The first thing I noticed was that there was fog in incorrect places and textures looked extremely abnormal. Then, inexplicably, the system locked up and crashed. Hard reboot, no warning. “Hmm” I pondered. I looked online for posts regarding this issue and, from what I have seen, the abnormal textures and unexplained fog was an issue with the Source engine and this card. The “solution” was to force DirectX 8.1 instead of using DirectX 9. That's all I'll mention of the abnormal fog and such in the main body of this, as it's seemingly a separate issue. ²

On to the inexplicable crash. I restarted and forced DirectX 8.1 with CS:S. I played for a bit (perhaps a few hours) until I got a lovely Blue Screen of Death (BSOD). The BSOD looked like a typical STOP BSOD with the following message, in my case:

STOP 0X0000007E (OXC0000005, 0XBFB4E28E, 0XAD6258CC, 0XAD6255C8)

nv4_disp.dll - Address BFBE28E base at BF9D40000, DateStamp 458ae707

Little did I know that I would soon come to be will acquainted with this particular blue screen from hell. I shrugged it off after checking to ensure that my temperatures were within tolerable ranges and that voltages from my PSU (Power Supply) were acceptable. They were, so I continued playing over the next couple of days.

Every time I'd go to play a game of CS:S, I'd get in and play for an hour or two (usually) without issue (except for DX8.1 looking quite vile). After this period of stability I'd get the BSOD. Again and again. Every single time. I was quickly becoming agitated.

So I started scouring the net and I found out that droves of people were having the exact same issue: BSODs in the middle of a 3d application. Some were playing World of Warcraft, some were playing CS:S like me, and some others were playing Battlefield 2.

The first thread I found mentioned issues with the a gentleman's 8800 GTX randomly hard locking or BSODing on him (found here). The second thread I found, a bit later, consisted of quite a few WoW players (I won't make fun of them for playing WoW... this time) getting the exact same BSOD at nearly the same coordinates on “Burning Crusade” (link). I found the nVidia forums littered with people professing of such problems.

As suggested in the thread I filed a support ticket with nVidia. First I described my problem and linked to the thread to on their forums to no avail. After pleading with the support “specialist” they finally “escalated my case” to Level 2 tech support. Ooh, sounds snazzy. I wait a week to get the following response:

Originally Posted by Nvidia Tech

Hello xxx,

This support website is designed to support NVIDIA direct sales products, such as the NVIDIA DualTV tuner card and the NVIDIA PureVideo DVD Decoder. We also address Presales questions about NVIDIA based products and technology. We can try to help with general issues or point you in the right direction but cannot fix all issues beyond the scope of our support.

I'm sorry but we will not be able to address or fix the problem you cite via this forum. Developers are already aware of the bug and are working to resolve the problem in CS. However, we will not be able to provide you feedback on their findings at this time.

Best regards,
NVIDIA

Oh, I wasn't aware that nVidia didn't support their drivers or care about their users? It must be lovely to live in a world in which you can manufacture a GPU, sell it to companies, write drivers for it, then leave them totally unsupported. It'd also seem that the “technician” had an issue reading what I had explained or following the link to their very own forums. He/She spoke only of my issue in “CS.” My texture issues in CS:S were a tertiary concern (see footnote 2) to the more glaring problem of oh, I don't know, rampant BSODs preventing me from playing the games that I enjoy? As I mentioned it's not an issue that lies solely with CS:S, many people have spoken of issues across several different games and 3d applications, some even crashing while not in a 3D applications.

At this point I'm absolutely incensed. How could nVidia be so reticent about the issue? It has not been mentioned in any of the driver releases/bugfixes/”known issue” notes. Not a peep on their forums. Not a press release, not a single “Hey guys, we're working on it. Please hang tight.” The only communication I received is through the ticket and that was quite unsatisfying to say the least.

I'd also like to point out just a few of the actions taken by people to resolve the issue, unsuccessfully:

- Removing nTune
- Extra cooling
- Swapped hard drives
- Different memory
- "Beefier" PSU (Up to 1000W)
- Different motherboards
- Different processor combinations
- Stripping of parts down to a nearly bare system
- SEVERAL drivers. I've personally tried 3-4, including the latest, to no avail.

I'm most likely forgetting a few things, too.

If you're thinking about buying an 8800 series card my advice to you is: DO NOT. Sure, you may be one of the lucky ones that have no issues, but do you really want to take that chance? Hold off on buying the card until nVidia steps up to the table and states that they're working on the problem.
Please either submit a question here Or email them at postmaster@nvidia.com . I'm not sure if the postmaster address is read but it is live, at the very least. Also note: although they don't purport to support their GPUs they should be supporting their drivers.

This issue needs to be exposed and nVidia needs to, at the very least, acknowledge the existence of a problem. I'm submitting this to several different places in an attempt to bring exposure to the issue. We should not be ignored.

Specifications on my computer, as it stands:

2x Opteron 252 Troy Processors
Asus K8N-DL Motherboard
2x 512MB Corsair TWINX Registered ECC XMS
BFG 8800 GTS 640 MB
2x 250GB WD Caviars in Raid0 plugged into a RocketRaid card
1x 120Gig Seagate drive (boot)
Fortron BlueSomething 520W PSU

Note: I'm submitting this to OC-Forums, Digg, The HardForums, and the nVidia forums. Pass this along to your friends. Make them at least listen to us and try to help us find out what the issue is.

Please post up in support of this.

-Ex

Edit: before anyone asks, this is using windows XP.

DIGG IT: http://digg.com/hardware/BSODs_Aboun...ut_In_The_Cold


Link at [H]: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1157331
nVidia forums link: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=27989

More links to those having issues:

http://www.evga.com/community/messag...TOPIC_ID=26392
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1150347&page=3
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=21758

------
¹ I should mention that at the time of this writing this seems to be a driver issue. Given that all signs are pointing to it being a driver issue I'm going to leave this in. If it turns out not to be a driver issue I will retract this statement.

² Just to elaborate: Basically people that were off in the distance appeared as a smoky silhouette instead of a well defined and visible opponent. Random white fog would appear everywhere. Things are completely bugged out if you run the 8800 series at DX 9 with CS:S. This is supposedly a separate issue.

[parsons256]

Hey man I feel your pain, im sick of Nvidia and their shoddy drivers, and support. I was running a 9800pro for a couple of years. That was my first GFX card; being the first time I built a computer myself. It was a GREAT card; I had no problems with drivers what so ever. I recently upgraded to a 6800gs(agp) to play oblivion, it was a great deal. I unlocked the extra pipes 12/4 to 16/6 and was off too the races, overclocked is to 430/1130 and was getting great performance……….. “BUT” little did I know I was in for some big problems. Right now I can play Oblivion or any other game for hours on end without any problems. …..“BUT” as soon as I try to surf the net or use MS word within 10 mins I get a BSOD..... the same thing your getting nv4_disp.dll,, even with my system at stock speeds. Ive tried a bunch of different drivers and have reformatted my comp about 5 times and RMAd’ed my car once with no luck. I did find a patch called nv4loopfix that apparently fixed a constant loop problem with the drivers, the link that I downloaded it from is no longer active, so I don’t know where u could find it know. But it seemed to fix my problem, only with the 92.91 drivers. If I use any other drivers I still get the same problem, and If I reinstall my 9800pro everything runs fine.
I only paid 200$ for my 6800GS id hate to be in your position and have shelled out 500+ to a GFX card only to have it give me head aches.
Im no fan boy either, id rather go for the best deal then stick to one Camp, but I think after my experience with NVidia my next card will most likely to ATI.
I’m all for getting the best performance out of a GFX card, BUT SERIOUSLY im a high school student I don’t have much money, and if I buy a GFX card it better work. AND if it doesn’t their better be a customer servise department that can offer me a solution to my problems.
I realy hope that Nvidia get’s it’s act together and starts releasing some stable drivers, if they want the maintain their upper hand on ati.

[MadMan007]

Err I don't like the sounds of this. I thought the only problems were with Vista? Damn I don't like the sounds of this and I was going to order an 8800GTS like tomorrow.

[TheBicycleThief]

I've had problems with my BFG 8800GTS but they've been little more than just annoyances. I've had temperature problems because the fan settings refuse to stick after setting, they always fall back to default and idle temps climb up to about 69c.

The whole thing is fixed by manually setting the direct fan control twice (I don't know why, but it always has to be twice) but if I have to restart for whatever reason it falls back to default.

I had similar temp problems with a 7950gx2 but those fans would never engage at all so I was left with idle temps around 80c ... bad news. I've never actually used that card in any machine.

I suspect the problem is driver related becasue I've had other cards in there that work just fine, fans and all, no high temps.

Luckily, I've had no BSODs or random crashes of any kind with the 8800 and so far (two full months) it's been a great pairing with the Samsung 244t I bought with it. Prices have dropped on the 8880s and the 320MB model just came out so they aren't as much of an investment as they used to be. I would recommend the card based on my experience but I'm only one person.

[2Foolish]

Sounds like you got a defective card to me, I doubt it has anything to do with Nvidia. I own an 8800 and have had NO problems, it's probably your motherboard / powersupply and card combination. Also you probably bought the cheapest card which uses the cheapest components... BFG or EVGA. I went asus and had no problems what-so-ever.

The other possibility is that the heatsink isn't fitted on the card correctly and the card is overheating. Or you are overclocking like a madman and refuse to back down on those settings.

[Immortal_Hero]

EVGA is far from cheap. IMO they are one of the best card makers around. Yet another case to sway me away from an 8800 for a while.

[Rattle]

probably just got a bad card, this is the first I have heard of it on these forums and I know at least 6 people that dont even frequent forums with this cards without issue. Stop trying to stop people from buying 8800's and rma your card.

[Immortal_Hero]

Originally Posted by Rattle

Stop trying to stop people from buying 8800's and rma your card.

He is allowed to spread his views and expirence with his card.

[MadMan007]

Originally Posted by 2Foolish

Sounds like you got a defective card to me, I doubt it has anything to do with Nvidia. I own an 8800 and have had NO problems, it's probably your motherboard / powersupply and card combination. Also you probably bought the cheapest card which uses the cheapest components... BFG or EVGA. I went asus and had no problems what-so-ever.

The other possibility is that the heatsink isn't fitted on the card correctly and the card is overheating. Or you are overclocking like a madman and refuse to back down on those settings.

Last I knew all 8800s are made by the same OEM, I believe Asus, so they should all be identical electronics-wise. Your first paragraph doesn't really apply, the second might though.

The best advice is rma the card, maybe you got unlucky and got a card that wasn't recalled so you have the original cap which was replaced in most production units?

[Rattle]

Originally Posted by Immortal_Hero

He is allowed to spread his views and expirence with his card.

yeah your right he is but saying that this si widespread is BS, its a combo of hardware and inexperienced users garanteed and some bad cards.

[Vrykyl]

yup, otherwise half of this forum and xtremesystems would be up in arms..... most folks are fine... sigh

[Spion]

I'm curious if you uninstalled the drivers from your 7800gt before you installed the 8 series drivers...

[TrophyGeek]

I purchased two eVGA 8800GTX boards for SLI mode with my 680i motherboard (Asus Striker Extreme) and experienced the same BSOD problem with both boards. I tried using just one at a time but no luck. Granted the Striker Extreme is a difficult board to get stable.

Next, I tried a different Asus motherboard (P5WDG2 WS Pro) and while the problem was less pronounced, the only crashes I experienced were nVidia video driver BSOD... with both boards. I wasn't doing any intensive gaming at the time, either.

It is a very strange BSOD because the system seems to slow to a crawl just seconds before it happens. The mouse moves but just barely for 2-5 seconds before the BSOD.

I can confirm the fan speed control issue someone else reported with the P5WDG2, but strangely, it seemed to work fine for the 680i board? I suspect there's better integration with that mobo because it's an nVidia design.

The current situation in the hardware/driver landscape is such that revisions and fixes seem to taking forever. My outsider theory is that Vista support work is overloading the dev cycles of many of these companies.

[booze]

I've experienced the same errors with the following setup.

Relevant specs

Asus Striker Extreme Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor
2x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card
Thermaltake W0106RU 700W Power Supply
CORSAIR XMS2 3GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Windows Vista Ultimate

I haven't even gotten to the point of using 3d apps. I still get random BSODs when I'm just running the system. I don't think its very fair how some of you guys are shrugging this off as just a bad card. It seems from what I've read that its a problem for lots of people. Just because it isn't for you, doesn't mean we're incapable or inexperienced.

[Immortal_Hero]

Originally Posted by Rattle

yeah your right he is but saying that this si widespread is BS, its a combo of hardware and inexperienced users garanteed and some bad cards.

From the look of some of the replies it seems that is untrue and others are having the same problem. There may be bad cards... There may be (most likely) driver conflicts with certain hardware.

[MadMan007]

Which one of you who has the BSOD problem has run Memtest at the settings which cause crashes yet?

[David]

An RMA might be a good course of action but it seems to be more than just a few people experiencing this.

[Rattle]

Originally Posted by Immortal_Hero

From the look of some of the replies it seems that is untrue and others are having the same problem. There may be bad cards... There may be (most likely) driver conflicts with certain hardware.

yeah I agree, I would think there's some bad cards also but i am willing to bet its a driver/hardware combo conflict for alot of people.

[nvidiaOCmaster]

Originally Posted by David

An RMA might be a good course of action but it seems to be more than just a few people experiencing this.

Everyone with the card is experiencing it. Its just bad drivers from what I've read.

[Rattle]

no thats incorrect again i am not trying to say there's not a problem of some sort but its not everyone, no way ...

I know lots of people with gts that have no issues whatsoever.

[MadMan007]

Run. Mem. Test.

It would be pretty ironic if NVs own chipset was the prime cause of this problem wouldn't it?

[ViperJohn]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

I'm sorry but we will not be able to address or fix the problem you cite via this forum.
Developers are already aware of the bug and are working to resolve the problem in CS.
However, we will not be able to provide you feedback on their findings at this time.

I will be the first one in line to say nVidia is terrible with communication and wording on
support issues but they did answer you question with the above.

What they are saying is they are aware of the issue and the driver team is working on a
solution. They can not tell you how to fix the issue using your current drivers because there
is no fix or work around for it yet.

No manufacturer will tell you the status ("provide you feedback on their findings") of possible
bug fixes in yet to be released drivers as that can change almost daily with every test build
they try.

Fixing drivers takes time. Debugging can be a very time consuming and frustrating as you can
fix one thing and break another in the process. It doesn't help that Vista drivers are sucking
up massive amounts of driver developement man hours either.

Viper

[Rattle]

Originally Posted by MadMan007

Run. Mem. Test.

It would be pretty ironic if NVs own chipset was the prime cause of this problem wouldn't it?

yeah man funny you mention that cuz all the people I know are running intel mobos and it seems most the people having trouble are not.

[2Foolish]

Originally Posted by TrophyGeek

I purchased two eVGA 8800GTX boards for SLI mode with my 680i motherboard (Asus Striker Extreme) and experienced the same BSOD problem with both boards. I tried using just one at a time but no luck. Granted the Striker Extreme is a difficult board to get stable.

Next, I tried a different Asus motherboard (P5WDG2 WS Pro) and while the problem was less pronounced, the only crashes I experienced were nVidia video driver BSOD... with both boards. I wasn't doing any intensive gaming at the time, either.

It is a very strange BSOD because the system seems to slow to a crawl just seconds before it happens. The mouse moves but just barely for 2-5 seconds before the BSOD.

I can confirm the fan speed control issue someone else reported with the P5WDG2, but strangely, it seemed to work fine for the 680i board? I suspect there's better integration with that mobo because it's an nVidia design.

The current situation in the hardware/driver landscape is such that revisions and fixes seem to taking forever. My outsider theory is that Vista support work is overloading the dev cycles of many of these companies.

The problem is SLI is still an immature technology unless you go with the whole nvidia platform. Next many older games were not designed with SLI in mind. I also think some boards are simply just not made as well as others, I think it's really a motherboard or video card manufacturing quality issue. Sounds like serious power or signaling/compatability issues have not been resolved in some revisions possibly, or maybe its simply software issue. It's hard to know without being on the inside.

[phlogiston99]

0x0000007E: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

This just means "Something went wrong, and it was totally unexpected." The 0xc0000005 means the code is trying to read or write from some bad memory location. Bad pointer in programmer's language.

Given that you can be playing for hours without BSDing, this may be a very infrequent condition that causes it.

Have you tried to "burn in" your computer with some kind of 2d benchmark in a loop? This method may be a little more consistent than using a 3d game. But I'm not sure what conclusion to draw if it does or does not crash...

Also, if I understand correctly you have a 2 CPU setup. Have you tried to disable the second one? I'm asking because it might be a case of mixup of the same data by 2 different thread, having only one CPU will avoid simultaneous execution of code and reduce the chance of mishap. This kind of bug is really difficult to debug.

I agree that the business model is a little messed up, nVidia is affectively designing chips, boards, drivers, handing out the design to an OEM (usually clueless about the intricate details of the product). So when you got a problem, the manidacturer can't help you and the designer won't. Tough!

Good luck though. Let me know how it goes!

Ph.

[Precision]

MY teamate for CS source has an 8800 and he has a few glitch problems in maps too. Guess that card wasn't really ready for the shelves :O

[Excelsior]

Originally Posted by Rattle

probably just got a bad card, this is the first I have heard of it on these forums and I know at least 6 people that dont even frequent forums with this cards without issue. Stop trying to stop people from buying 8800's and rma your card.

Originally Posted by Rattle

yeah your right he is but saying that this si widespread is BS, its a combo of hardware and inexperienced users garanteed and some bad cards.

Uh, did you read the post? Follow the links to the nVidia forums or the eVGA forums or the other dozen threads with those having issues.

Originally Posted by Spion

I'm curious if you uninstalled the drivers from your 7800gt before you installed the 8 series drivers...

Yes, obviously. I'm not a moron. Uninstalled, booted into safe mode, DC PRo'd, Installed new drivers, rebooted.

Originally Posted by MadMan007

Run. Mem. Test.

It would be pretty ironic if NVs own chipset was the prime cause of this problem wouldn't it?

We. All. Have.

If you'd have followed the nVidia forums link you'd see that most of us (Myself included) are Memtest stable, prime stable, and an assortment of "burn-in" apps stable.

Regardless,

XXXXXX
I may have found a fix.

After trying literally a dozen drivers I was pointed towards a VERY old driver (Nov, 8 2006).

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_97.02.html

I had been through so many other packages including guru3d drivers and the like. This old release may have done it for me. I haven't crashed in nearly a day and I'm running my game at DX9 as well without graphics issues.

Can anyone who is having the issues please try this package and let me know if it works for you?
XXXXX

Update: Crahes, again. Try em out, maybe it'll work for you. The crashes took longer this time, but the same thing went on.

Thanks,

Ex

[MRD]

Also you probably bought the cheapest card which uses the cheapest components... BFG or EVGA. I went asus and had no problems what-so-ever.

You have got to be out of your mind.

The single worst manufacturer I have ever dealt with with respect to customer service / tech support / product returns is Asus. I had so many defective products from them, and they just didn't even answer their emails.

BFG on the other hand has live tech support, 24h/day, located in the United States, and will overnight you brand new replacement parts for as long as you own the card, and even after you transfer it to someone else they can continue to use the warranty. I have an eVGA card too, and it has worked like a tank for years (GeForce 5900 and an MX4000). I'd buy eVGA again in a heartbeat. Generally the only brands I will NOT buy are Asus and Chaintech. (Chaintech's CS isn't much better... had a defective card, RMA'd it, got another defective card, and they proceeded to ignore me...)

I'd say BFG is the single best card manufacturer out there right now, bar none. eVGA is probably number 2. I'd put Asus near the bottom.

[Rattle]

all the 8800's are made by asus LOLS

[Immortal_Hero]

Originally Posted by Rattle

all the 8800's are made by asus LOLS

Made me laugh as well.