Sell or else!!!

HousERaT · 02-19-07, 12:32 PM

Yet another Vista negative...... Now oem sellers are being forced to sell Vista with no option for XP. I swear I'm liking M$ less and less each day.

http://www.overclockers.com/tips01108/

How do you feel about this? I've always felt more options were better.

hkgonra · 02-19-07, 12:47 PM

Haven't they always done this ?
I know they did with XP.

speed bump · 02-19-07, 01:13 PM

I wish ed was alittle less shallow in his thinking. This is actually a positive if Microsoft is selling more copies of Vista and replacing XP very quickly. The faster they replace XP the more of their support people that can be dedicated to supporting Vista resulting in a much better OS in a shorter amount of time.

therookie · 02-19-07, 01:34 PM

Speed Bump does have valid point, But I still would like a choice about some things in life ..

David · 02-19-07, 01:50 PM

Seems to be a little too much "you'll run what we damn well say on your system".

Adragontattoo · 02-19-07, 01:55 PM

Large percentage buyers will be able to force XP instead with minimal effort. You cant force Companies to use an as of yet not completely tested OS that isnt even fully compatible.

When XP came out there were Company memo's that stated DO NOT UPGRADE, without even a single SP out yet I dont see too many companies willing to split their systems between 2k (it IS still in use and supported by MS), XP (what is the coverage of this again?) and Vista (just released and most HelpDesks arent going to be trained on its quirks yet).

It is smart that they start trying to push it harder but I dont think that they will be able to MANDATE that you take it if you yell enough to your sales rep.(I personally deal with 4k+ laptops on this contract)

HousERaT · 02-19-07, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speed bump

I wish ed was alittle less shallow in his thinking. This is actually a positive if Microsoft is selling more copies of Vista and replacing XP very quickly. The faster they replace XP the more of their support people that can be dedicated to supporting Vista resulting in a much better OS in a shorter amount of time.

That sounds logical however I'm sure Microsoft was thinking the exact same thing when they came out with Windows ME. We know how that went.

Esteban · 02-19-07, 02:07 PM

If MS can't entice people to buy Vista on its merits, then they will force people by making it the only (legal) choice.

That Vista isn't allowed to compete with XP speaks volumes - to me at least - about how much faith MS has in its shiny new OS.

David · 02-19-07, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adragontattoo

Large percentage buyers will be able to force XP instead with minimal effort. You cant force Companies to use an as of yet not completely tested OS that isnt even fully compatible.

When XP came out there were Company memo's that stated DO NOT UPGRADE, without even a single SP out yet I dont see too many companies willing to split their systems between 2k (it IS still in use and supported by MS), XP (what is the coverage of this again?) and Vista (just released and most HelpDesks arent going to be trained on its quirks yet).

It is smart that they start trying to push it harder but I dont think that they will be able to MANDATE that you take it if you yell enough to your sales rep.(I personally deal with 4k+ laptops on this contract)

I have probably said this before but - my employer use Windows 2000 workstations for their staff and only use XP on machines that specifically need it (kit we have that needs XP includes an LCMS, a few UV/Vis and a fibre optic probe set.

We don't even *need* XP let alone Vista. It'd be a support nightmare if we started buying Vista workstations.

wannaoc · 02-19-07, 03:00 PM

While I don't agree with it I see why they are doing it. Why pay people to know and support both products when they can cover just one. With XP being so widely used and popular I don't think its good for PR though.Bbut when you have a monopoly that really isn't important.

aaronjb · 02-19-07, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have probably said this before but - my employer use Windows 2000 workstations for their staff and only use XP on machines that specifically need it (kit we have that needs XP includes an LCMS, a few UV/Vis and a fibre optic probe set.

We don't even *need* XP let alone Vista. It'd be a support nightmare if we started buying Vista workstations.

I work for a large public university system in the U.S. We have no plans to deploy Vista. However, I know of a large university system (25K+ seats) in New York which is transitioning to Vista very soon. Makes me wonder how much Microsoft is granting to their CS department.

WarriorII · 02-19-07, 11:23 PM

M$ keeps doing this and forcing us to accept what they are dishing out. (poop)

I actually got brave enuff & installed Linux. (Ubuntu) and even the wife likes it.

Now what does that say?!!!!????

I honestly can't believe they are taking XP offline.

It just dumbfounds me.

ghettocomp · 02-20-07, 01:56 AM

I for one will not be installing Vista anyway. I still have a couple of valid
win2k copies to use yet

I am planning on changing all the systems I have in my home to some version
of linux soon anyway. Seems that M$ just gave me another few reasons to do it.

Hipcrostino · 02-20-07, 02:52 AM

Peugeot/Citron in France have deployed Linux servers and workstations throughout their company offices as of this year, ditching Windows altogether.

Kamel · 02-20-07, 05:51 AM

you know that microsoft made it illegal to sell a laptop without an OS (possibly a desktop too, but i'm unsure)? they claim that if a laptop has no OS it is most likely that the person receiving the laptop will pirate windows on it, so it is actually illegal to. this is the answer i got directly from HP's technical support when asking for a laptop with no OS. I don't see a point in purchasing a laptop with $100-200 on top of its already inflated price for an operating system that i am going to remove the moment i receive the laptop

. at any rate, HP does offer linux pre-installed laptops, but they cost an arm and a leg as they are business class ($3K+ when i was checking). if i'm not mistaken they charge you for RHEL as well, which is like $60 :S (i hate redhat)

splat · 02-20-07, 09:10 AM

MS gives you reasons every day on why you should drop them and seek and alternative.

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/02/19/2212213.shtml
Dell opened up a customer feed back website and the number 1 request is Linux Preinstalled; it beat out complaints about their tech support being in India. Hopefully Dell will see these numbers and respond positively to them. I hope this will make Dell show that there is an actual cost to having Windows ship with the computer instead of burying the cost.

There are options out there and for the vast majority of computer users, there is no NEED to stay with MS.

edit: yes, dell has been selling linux machines for a few years, but you have to know where to look for them and they are really only for businesses. www.dell.com/linux

>HyperlogiK< · 02-20-07, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamel

you know that microsoft made it illegal to sell a laptop without an OS (possibly a desktop too, but i'm unsure)? they claim that if a laptop has no OS it is most likely that the person receiving the laptop will pirate windows on it, so it is actually illegal to. this is the answer i got directly from HP's technical support when asking for a laptop with no OS. I don't see a point in purchasing a laptop with $100-200 on top of its already inflated price for an operating system that i am going to remove the moment i receive the laptop

. at any rate, HP does offer linux pre-installed laptops, but they cost an arm and a leg as they are business class ($3K+ when i was checking). if i'm not mistaken they charge you for RHEL as well, which is like $60 :S (i hate redhat)

Are you sure that HP weren't bulls**tting you? There has been quite a lot of publicity recently of people getting refunds from Dell both in the UK and the US. They bought machines which came with windows pre-installed, and because they didn't want to use it they got their money back.

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/01/03/227237

I don't know how many have been successful in doing this.

Oroka Sempai · 02-20-07, 10:46 AM

I suggest people wait for Vista SP2 comes out, at that point the new Windows (code named Figi right now) should be close to being out, so you should stick to XP till Figi is out. When Fiji is released, I suggest you wait till SP2 is out. By the time SP2 is out, the modular Windows should be close to being released, so you should wait for that, but hold off till SP2. By then Google will have a OS and you can bitch about how horrible Google is.

It will NOT be 6 years till the next version of Windows, 2-3 years at most. I suggest you all give me your computers right now and I will save you the hassel of every upgrading to the next crap version of Windows.

Elephanthead · 02-20-07, 01:36 PM

so has dell stopped offering Windows XP?

hkgonra · 02-20-07, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephanthead

so has dell stopped offering Windows XP?

On home systems they have but not on business systems.

02-19-07, 12:32 PM	Thread Starter #1
HousERaT Senior Air Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Imladris	Sell or else!!! Yet another Vista negative...... Now oem sellers are being forced to sell Vista with no option for XP. I swear I'm liking M$ less and less each day. http://www.overclockers.com/tips01108/ How do you feel about this? I've always felt more options were better. __________________ CM-690 \| Maximus Formula \| Ballistix D9GMH 2GB - 4-4-4-10 - 2.2v (active cooled) \| E6850 @4GHz (L719B) 602 Bios 500x8 - 1.475v \| Ultra 120 Extreme \| 2x HD3870 840/1300 \| Lite-On 52327s CDRW \| WD 74GB - Raptor HDD \| Corsair 620HX PSU \| Windows XP Pro sp2 \| Support the OC Benchmarking Team The HD 4870/50 Thread The HD 3870/50 Thread The X1900XT/XTX Thread X800GTO² Thread Heatware Make friends with your "FAST" - 90K 01SE - 77K 03 - 29K 05 - 19K 06 - 274K AM3 - single card all air baby!
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02-19-07, 12:47 PM	#2
hkgonra Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: West TN.	Haven't they always done this ? I know they did with XP. __________________ "I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin Franklin My Heatware
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02-19-07, 01:13 PM	#3
speed bump Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Montana tech Butte mt.	I wish ed was alittle less shallow in his thinking. This is actually a positive if Microsoft is selling more copies of Vista and replacing XP very quickly. The faster they replace XP the more of their support people that can be dedicated to supporting Vista resulting in a much better OS in a shorter amount of time. __________________ Big changes coming: Intel e4300, DFI Blood iron, Crucial DDR2-8500, ATI x859xt, MCW-6002>Ehiem 1250>Bip3 with 3 nidec beta Vs, Sunbeam Zorro, Corsair 650 watter Stuff I should be using but don't: Finally got around to running that stuff. Ever run a benchmark? support our forums by posting it in the 3dmark team and system benchmarking team sections. My heatware Silence may be golden but performance is platinum
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02-19-07, 01:34 PM	#4
therookie Member Join Date: Feb 2007	Speed Bump does have valid point, But I still would like a choice about some things in life ..
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02-19-07, 01:50 PM	#5
David Forums Super Moderator Overclockers.com Lead Editor Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Americans and making pretty colours in a drybox in St Andrews	Seems to be a little too much "you'll run what we damn well say on your system". __________________ David J. Nelson MChem(Edin) PhD(Strath) AMRSC [Academia Profile] OC Forums Super Moderator // Overclockers.com Editor The Workhorse: [Lenovo W510] Intel Core i7-720QM / 8 GB DDR3 / nVidia Quadro FX880M / Crucial M4 256 GB SSD / Windows 7 The HTPC/Server: AMD Phenom X4 9650 / 6 GB DDR2 / nVidia 8300 / 5 TB of HDDs / Antec Solo II Case / Windows 7 The Gaming Rig: AMD Llano A6-3650 / 4 GB DDR3 / nVidia GTX260 / 2x 500 GB HDD in RAID0 / Antec Dark Fleet DF-85 Case / Windows 7 The Benchmarking Setup: Various LGA775 chips / Asus Rampage Formula / 2 GB OCZ 1066 MHz DDR2 / nVidia Quadro NVS 285 / 320 GB HDD / Windows 7 My research fellowship is eating all my time, so I may be slow to reply to emails and private messages.
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02-19-07, 01:55 PM	#6
Adragontattoo Trailer Chasing Senior Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: 102 year old Victorian that I am renovat/moderniz-ing and fixing.	Large percentage buyers will be able to force XP instead with minimal effort. You cant force Companies to use an as of yet not completely tested OS that isnt even fully compatible. When XP came out there were Company memo's that stated DO NOT UPGRADE, without even a single SP out yet I dont see too many companies willing to split their systems between 2k (it IS still in use and supported by MS), XP (what is the coverage of this again?) and Vista (just released and most HelpDesks arent going to be trained on its quirks yet). It is smart that they start trying to push it harder but I dont think that they will be able to MANDATE that you take it if you yell enough to your sales rep.(I personally deal with 4k+ laptops on this contract) __________________ Only ISP provided, .EDU, .GOV, .MIL e-mail addresses are Classifieds approved. Are you unable to access the Classifieds? Click here to find out why! The Forum Rules FAQ\|Classies Rules and Regs Prices, slashes and edits Quality over Quantity Pictures are NOT req. Adopt an animal if you want one, dont use a breeder!
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02-19-07, 02:07 PM	#8
Esteban New Member Join Date: Nov 2006	If MS can't entice people to buy Vista on its merits, then they will force people by making it the only (legal) choice. That Vista isn't allowed to compete with XP speaks volumes - to me at least - about how much faith MS has in its shiny new OS. Last edited by Esteban; 02-19-07 at 02:14 PM.
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02-19-07, 03:00 PM	#10
wannaoc Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Buried in UPS packages	While I don't agree with it I see why they are doing it. Why pay people to know and support both products when they can cover just one. With XP being so widely used and popular I don't think its good for PR though.Bbut when you have a monopoly that really isn't important.
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02-19-07, 11:23 PM	#12
WarriorII Moderator #666 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Moderating	M$ keeps doing this and forcing us to accept what they are dishing out. (poop) I actually got brave enuff & installed Linux. (Ubuntu) and even the wife likes it. Now what does that say?!!!!???? I honestly can't believe they are taking XP offline. It just dumbfounds me. __________________ To Honor Those who went before their time. God Bless them all Fight the Fight worth Fighting *FOLD for Team 32* IS THERE A CURE AMONG US? Black Belt Overclocker MyHeatware under WarriorII Become a fan on Facebook! \| Help improve overclockers.com! Get involved! \| Follow us on Twitter!
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02-20-07, 01:56 AM	#13
ghettocomp Master of teh Ghetto Mods Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Choosing between two evils, I might pick the one I've never tried before.	I for one will not be installing Vista anyway. I still have a couple of valid win2k copies to use yet I am planning on changing all the systems I have in my home to some version of linux soon anyway. Seems that M$ just gave me another few reasons to do it. __________________ I find that most people are like Slinkies.. They are not really good for anything, but can still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. :P
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02-20-07, 02:52 AM	#14
Hipcrostino Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Canberra, Australia	Peugeot/Citron in France have deployed Linux servers and workstations throughout their company offices as of this year, ditching Windows altogether. __________________ i7 2600k Water cooled AsRock z68 Extreme4 Corsair 1600mhz cl7 4gb EVGA 580GTX OCZ Revo x2 220GB Corsair 750W PSU 2x 22" LCD monitors (1 is 120hz)
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02-20-07, 05:51 AM	#15
Kamel Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Knoxville, TN	you know that microsoft made it illegal to sell a laptop without an OS (possibly a desktop too, but i'm unsure)? they claim that if a laptop has no OS it is most likely that the person receiving the laptop will pirate windows on it, so it is actually illegal to. this is the answer i got directly from HP's technical support when asking for a laptop with no OS. I don't see a point in purchasing a laptop with $100-200 on top of its already inflated price for an operating system that i am going to remove the moment i receive the laptop . at any rate, HP does offer linux pre-installed laptops, but they cost an arm and a leg as they are business class ($3K+ when i was checking). if i'm not mistaken they charge you for RHEL as well, which is like $60 :S (i hate redhat) __________________ My Heatware
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02-20-07, 09:10 AM	#16
splat ASCII Moderator Overclockers.com Lead Editor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philly	MS gives you reasons every day on why you should drop them and seek and alternative. http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/02/19/2212213.shtml Dell opened up a customer feed back website and the number 1 request is Linux Preinstalled; it beat out complaints about their tech support being in India. Hopefully Dell will see these numbers and respond positively to them. I hope this will make Dell show that there is an actual cost to having Windows ship with the computer instead of burying the cost. There are options out there and for the vast majority of computer users, there is no NEED to stay with MS. edit: yes, dell has been selling linux machines for a few years, but you have to know where to look for them and they are really only for businesses. www.dell.com/linux __________________ ______________________________/\/\__________________/\/\_____ _______/\/\/\/\__/\/\/\/\____/\/\____/\/\/\______/\/\/\/\/\__ ____/\/\/\/\____/\/\__/\/\__/\/\________/\/\______/\/\_______ _________/\/\__/\/\/\/\____/\/\____/\/\/\/\______/\/\________ __/\/\/\/\____/\/\________/\/\/\__/\/\/\/\/\____/\/\/\_______ _____________/\/\___________once you clock you can't go stock articles \|\| folding stats \|\| overclockers last.fm group Overclockers.com and you - Become a fan on Facebook! \| Get published! \| Follow on Twitter! \|\| Random Article Last edited by splat; 02-20-07 at 09:17 AM.
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02-20-07, 10:46 AM	#18
Oroka Sempai Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Port Elgin, Canada	I suggest people wait for Vista SP2 comes out, at that point the new Windows (code named Figi right now) should be close to being out, so you should stick to XP till Figi is out. When Fiji is released, I suggest you wait till SP2 is out. By the time SP2 is out, the modular Windows should be close to being released, so you should wait for that, but hold off till SP2. By then Google will have a OS and you can bitch about how horrible Google is. It will NOT be 6 years till the next version of Windows, 2-3 years at most. I suggest you all give me your computers right now and I will save you the hassel of every upgrading to the next crap version of Windows. __________________ [Primary][Cooler Master Elite 430 Black][ASUS M4A88TD-M][Phenom II X6 1100T BE][Xigmatek HDT-S1283][4GB Corsair Vengeance LP1600][ASUS 6850 1GB][LG BH10LS30 10X][OCZ Agility 3 90GB & Segate 1TB][Windows 7 Ultimate 64] [Server][Thermaltake Armour Jr][ASUS M2A-VA][Athlon X2 7750 BE][POS HSF][4GB Buffalo Select][HIS Radeon X1950 XT 256MB][LG DVD-RW][WD 160GB][Windows 7 Ultimate 64]
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02-20-07, 01:36 PM	#19
Elephanthead Registered Join Date: Jun 2003	so has dell stopped offering Windows XP?
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