Water vs. Air

Clockwork_Apple · Aug 29, 2007

In one months time I'm leaving home to go to university, I'll be living on campus.

As much as I love having my PC watercooled, for the cooling performance, low noise level and having something to tinker with, I cant help but think that it wont be suited to university life.

I can imagine having an important assignment due in that week, but not having access to my PC because of a leak or pump failure. Or having a component die due to the fact I was clocking it higher on water than on air.

My main concern is reliability. I watercooled my 939 rig for two months now, and havent had a single problem after the initial setup and leaktest, but if something were to go wrong I have an abundance of tools, spare parts and backup hardware at home - I wont have access to this at university if something does go wrong.

So simply put, can water be as reliable as high end air cooling?

Can a properly set up system withstand being knocked about a bit, left on for weeks, then left switched off for weeks (irregular usage patterns).

The reason I ask is I'm planning on buying a new radiator, Swiftech MCR320-QP for ~£32, however I could just spend that money on a Thermalright Ultra 120 and sell the remainder of my watercooling parts.

In my situation, where reliabilty is a significant factor, should I watercool?

Kuroimaho · Aug 29, 2007

Check this article on a compact Watercooler compared to a top end air. LINK

I guess says it all, now imagine you have 3 times the radiator of that, stronger pump and better block.

DaPoets · Aug 29, 2007

In logic, the more moving parts you have the more chance to break and fail. If you have a big heat sink w/ a $10 fan and the fan dies, oh well... not a big deal. (ex: Ultra 120 extreme w/ 2 fans attached). But for watercooling, one bad part will stop your entire system. Pump failure? you are SOL until you replace it. Got a leak? well do your investigation to find it and hopefully you have spare parts.

Water can be nice and easy, but when I was in college, I was happy to know that my computer was always there w/ no issues... water does add more risk but it's not all that risky since the technology has improved greatly over the years. The question can mainly be answered by your own level of expertise when it come to computers. Are you easily able to diagnose and fix a computer problem w/ out staying up till 3am when you have a paper due the next day?

I would say, if you can't name each part and put together a complete watercooling system on your own fairly quickly then just play the safe bet and go Air cooling for your college experience.

(The last thing you want to do is try to fix a leak while you have a bear in your hand)

bryan_d · Aug 29, 2007

Kuroimaho said:
Check this article on a compact Watercooler compared to a top end air. LINK

I guess says it all, now imagine you have 3 times the radiator of that, stronger pump and better block.

How does this help the original poster? I believe the OP already knows that benefits of water cooling when looking at performance.

But to answer the OP's question, I believe you already know the answer; you really have to make a compromise, because now your computer has an increased need for uptime due to school. I actually use my old computer, underclocked, so that I will run less risk of any failures for my homework and research papers. I have my main computer overclocked and used strictly for music, movies, and gaming.

High end air will still allow for good clocks, and you will have better piece of mind than using water. Plus with air, you know you will be hampered, and you will not have to think of getting clocks!

Instead you can focus on your school work, friends, partying, and participating in the activity that all humans perform... or want to perform.

Others will still argue that with proper leak testing, you will not have to worry, but I bet the majority of them still open up their case once a week to just make sure everything is legit. And unlike WC, you do not have to refill or top off your TR 120Ultra every year.

bryan d

WonderingSoul · Aug 29, 2007

I had watercooling for over a year at university (this past year) I had no issues. I had a pump fail but got a replacement and was back up and running within a weekend.

It really just boils down to quality parts. Get quality parts and attention to detail you got nothing to worry about.

Another thing is; does your housing have air conditioning? If not then I would recommend WCing. Many people in one place means one hot PC and one hot PC = an unhappy clocker.

Just keep a good eye on detail and you won't have problems. If you want to "set it and forget it", go to air cooling and stock clocks.

Kuroimaho · Aug 29, 2007

bryan_d said:
How does this help the original poster?

Cause it is much simpler than other water kits.

CGR · Aug 29, 2007

Well, WCing may add a little more risk but I dont think its enough to warrant getting rid of it.

All Universities have labs you could use in an emergency anyway.

I have had a WC system running for several years without issue. Though you may find doing a system flush at school a tad more of a pain. If you go home for breaks and holidays you might consider doing a flush at that time if its more than a year of running.

oakstave · Aug 29, 2007

Can water cooling be as reliable as air cooling??

Absolutely not. Not even close. Before everyone's hackles get up, it's just a matter of basic engineering and chaos theory. You've got a pump, that needs regular maintenance, you've got a line, barbs, resoirvour (sic) radiator, and the need to flush coolant.

What's the most common cause of failure on the road for cars? The coolant system. It changes chemically over time, becomes corrosive. Water pumps are far more prone to failure than air pumps (fans). If any one part of this cooling loop goes bad, you're finished. Period.

Air cooling is far less effective in hot climates, doesn't keep the machine as cool, and is loud. But you can literally do nothing to it for years, and probably have no issues whatsoever. I didn't clean the dust out of my p4 for 3 years once. Hair and dust were caked over the heatsink. I finally noticed because the cpu fan seemed a bit loud...

You just can't have that kind of neglect on H20. Knocked around?? Are you kidding me?

As far as whether or not it will be OK... probably. Check your lines, top off the loop. change the coolant at least annually. It'll probably be fine, unless you have a dipstick roommate that wants to see if he can turn your wc into a bong.

But your question was: Can it be as reliable as air? How can you get as reliable as: set it up, and let it run for years with no maintenance whatsoever? No... freakin'... way.

My system can even handle the cpu fan failing, (passive cooling rated cpu cooler) provided the cpu is under light duty. Try shutting off your pump for awhile and see what happens. (NO DONT!)

If it were me, I'd probably leave the system as is. It would be a lot of work to 'downgrade' your computer cooling system. But don't fool yourself into thinking you can make it as fail-safe, and maintenance-free as air. And for God's Sakes don't knock it around!!!

Gunlance · Aug 29, 2007

^do you own or have you owned a water cooled rig before? Just asking.

CGR · Aug 29, 2007

oakstave said:
Can water cooling be as reliable as air cooling??

Absolutely not. Not even close. Before everyone's hackles get up, it's just a matter of basic engineering and chaos theory. You've got a pump, that needs regular maintenance, you've got a line, barbs, resoirvour (sic) radiator, and the need to flush coolant.

What's the most common cause of failure on the road for cars? The coolant system. It changes chemically over time, becomes corrosive. Water pumps are far more prone to failure than air pumps (fans). If any one part of this cooling loop goes bad, you're finished. Period.

Air cooling is far less effective in hot climates, doesn't keep the machine as cool, and is loud. But you can literally do nothing to it for years, and probably have no issues whatsoever. I didn't clean the dust out of my p4 for 3 years once. Hair and dust were caked over the heatsink. I finally noticed because the cpu fan seemed a bit loud...

You just can't have that kind of neglect on H20. Knocked around?? Are you kidding me?

As far as whether or not it will be OK... probably. Check your lines, top off the loop. change the coolant at least annually. It'll probably be fine, unless you have a dipstick roommate that wants to see if he can turn your wc into a bong.

But your question was: Can it be as reliable as air? How can you get as reliable as: set it up, and let it run for years with no maintenance whatsoever? No... freakin'... way.

My system can even handle the cpu fan failing, (passive cooling rated cpu cooler) provided the cpu is under light duty. Try shutting off your pump for awhile and see what happens. (NO DONT!)

If it were me, I'd probably leave the system as is. It would be a lot of work to 'downgrade' your computer cooling system. But don't fool yourself into thinking you can make it as fail-safe, and maintenance-free as air. And for God's Sakes don't knock it around!!!

First, The coolant system in a car is rarely the first to go. Yes you should flush it once every year or two, however just because it needs maintenance doesnt mean its not reliable.

Second, A pump is no less reliable than any other peice of electrical hardware in your machine. In fact most pumps nowadays dont need any maintenance.

Third, even air systems need some kind of maintenance. You have heard of this thing called "Dust" right? How many times do you have to clean out your system from dust collection.

WC may add a few more parts that could fail, however it isnt any less reliable than air IMO...

Oc1Kenube · Aug 29, 2007

The answer is simple backup to an external drive regularly or usb key worst comes to worst there are always internet cafes or college computers right?

Do what makes you happy if watercooling and overclocking are what you want, have confidence in your decision and stick with it, just pack a Hsf incase.

minhtin · Aug 29, 2007

I would just get a nice laptop and leave the system home.. Having something mobile is a lot nicer than a desktop. As for wc, i've run the same system for 3 years, never leak or crap out on me. Just had to flush and refill every 4 months. Good luck at school man.

Automata · Aug 29, 2007

oakstave said:
Can water cooling be as reliable as air cooling??

Absolutely not. Not even close.

Exactly. I'll be going back soon and I wanted something more reliable. I recently sold all my watercooling stuff and the new gear will be here today

OP, I'd suggest dropping it. It just isn't worth it right now in our lives :soda:

Clockwork_Apple · Aug 29, 2007

Thanks for all the responses

Oc1Kenube said:
The answer is simple backup to an external drive regularly or usb key worst comes to worst there are always internet cafes or college computers right?

Do what makes you happy if watercooling and overclocking are what you want, have confidence in your decision and stick with it, just pack a Hsf incase.

MCR320 ordered

You make a good point, its not the actual hardware I'm worried about. It's PC access and school work, and with regular backups to a USB pen and the university computers neither will be affected if my PC is out of service for a few days.

I will be taking a stock intel cooler and stock GPU heatsink with me, just incase

Although I'm decided, feel free to discuss the topic. What kind of precautions should I take when transporting the PC there and back? (I'm guessing draining it is a must).

g0dM@n · Aug 29, 2007

not everyone have a PC... worst case, if your down, you know it's temporary, and that's what the library is for, right?!

or... buy a super cheap laptop. people sell pentiumIII laptops for $100-120 i'm sure. I've owned a P3 laptop and they are actually VERY good for browsing and word processing.

If I was in your position, I'd buy a cheap laptop as a backup, or heck you can even get a really cheap 2.0ghz+ celeron minitower... or if you have no cash to spare, the library works great too

Neuromancer · Aug 29, 2007

DaPoets said:
...
(The last thing you want to do is try to fix a leak while you have a bear in your hand)

I dont think that will be a problem... he will be in a dormitory and I doubt they will let him keep a pet of that size...

oakstave · Aug 29, 2007

Gunlance said:
^do you own or have you owned a water cooled rig before? Just asking.

No! I should have put that in the beginning of the quote. Your point is well taken. Or the inferred point anyway. But I've done my research on maintaining them, as prelude to doing it myself.

But hey, If what I'm saying is wrong please correct me. Here's my understanding:

1. Coolant can go bad, and oxidize parts of the system. Most systems require an annual change of coolant. You need to view the coolant for particulate matter accumulating the loop. (little white flakey things, algae, bacterial mats) Sometimes you need to flush it, sometimes you need to change your additives/coolant. But it should be monitored occasionally.
2. The system can leak. From a variety of points. Tubing, barbs, and blocks should be physically inspected. Even a drop of coolant on the right spot will fry a system.
3. Most systems need topping off occasionally.

In the most basic sense, when you add complexity to a system, you add failure points and lower 'reliability'. Do you disagree?

I'm designing a loop right now for my rig, but it's not to improve reliability, it's to improve performance.

His question is specific: Can a water-cooled pc get knocked around, shut off for weeks/on for weeks and still be as reliable as air cooling: No! If you're in a bang-around, don't have time to check anything, kind of environment, air cooling is probably the best option.

But I'd still leave the system the same if it were mine....

Life has risks. Bring some tools. Buy some spare parts. It'll be fine.

oakstave · Aug 29, 2007

CGR said:
First, The coolant system in a car is rarely the first to go. Yes you should flush it once every year or two, however just because it needs maintenance doesnt mean its not reliable.

Second, A pump is no less reliable than any other peice of electrical hardware in your machine. In fact most pumps nowadays dont need any maintenance.

Third, even air systems need some kind of maintenance. You have heard of this thing called "Dust" right? How many times do you have to clean out your system from dust collection.

WC may add a few more parts that could fail, however it isnt any less reliable than air IMO...

http://news.carjunky.com/car_maintenance/flush_out_engine_failure_2476.shtml

Secondly, read my post. Once I went three years without cleaning the dust out.

aja · Aug 29, 2007

g0dM@n said:
not everyone have a PC... worst case, if your down, you know it's temporary, and that's what the library is for, right?!

or... buy a super cheap laptop. people sell pentiumIII laptops for $100-120 i'm sure. I've owned a P3 laptop and they are actually VERY good for browsing and word processing.

If I was in your position, I'd buy a cheap laptop as a backup, or heck you can even get a really cheap 2.0ghz+ celeron minitower... or if you have no cash to spare, the library works great too

I was just going to suggest something similar!

Get an old PIII of P4 to use for your assignments and stuff, aircooled of course, and then you are set!

Remember to take goo for that stock intel hsf :santa2:

aja · Aug 29, 2007

another idea, get a kvm switch so you only need one screen, keyboard and mouse...

I think a water cooling setup is reliable if set up properly - I think the bigger problem is rising summer temps and failing overclocks.

Take a spare PC - PIII with ubuntu linux can do all your assignments

Water vs. Air

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