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Groklaw finally rips apart the Novell-MS deal

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Large Corporations, Large Religions, and their friends in Government can do whatever they please, unchecked. Any small 'victories' against these institutions are largely symbolic. What can I say, I'm a realist.
I'll keep using GNU/Linux, despite how much I hate Linus Torvalds, (because HURD is useless to me at this time) and I do hope that Microsoft doesn't completely crush it. :soda:
 
Misfit138 said:
I'll keep using GNU/Linux, despite how much I hate Linus Torvalds, (because HURD is useless to me at this time) and I do hope that Microsoft doesn't completely crush it. :soda:
Click to expand...

if you have problems with Linus (not sure why?), you can always use BSD or Solaris. Or even jump to Apple/Darwin.
 
splat said:
if you have problems with Linus (not sure why?), you can always use BSD or Solaris. Or even jump to Apple/Darwin.
Click to expand...

I do have a Mac, as well as numerous windows and GNU/linux boxes. :)
Why do I hate Linus? Becuase he is an arrogant, presumptuous, elitist, self-important snob egomaniac who takes credit for "inventing 'Linux'" and insists that referring to Linux distros as GNU/Linux distros is "ridiculous". In Linus's opinion, "Linux" is not just the kernel, it is the OS. In the context of his contributions toward the Kernel as it exists today (less than 1% contribution) and the total percentage of source code which a kernel represents of a typical GNU/Linux distro, (less than 3%) vs. GNU and what it represents (more than 28% of a typical distro), I conclude that he is nothing more than a very lucky, selfish, opportunist at best.
Regardless of how persons feel about Richard Stallman and GNU, he and his project are the real McCoy..but because the majority of the community seems more, shall we say, enamored by Torvalds and his arrogant wit, Torvalds gets the credit and adoration while Stallman is viewed as the eccentric, mad philosopher.
And as a public kick in the balls, Stallman gets awarded the "Linus Torvalds achievment award" . Stallman gives a brief acceptance speech while Torvalds stands to the side on the same stage, playing with his toddler in a contrived posturing act, as if to say "I am normal, balanced and light hearted. Don't listen to Stallman rant and rave, he's an idiot." During his acceptance speech, Stallman gives credit for Linus's contribution in the form of the kernel, as Torvalds ignores Stallman, making a mockery of him, and ignoring Stallman's good humor about the whole situation.
Torvalds is nauseatingly sarcastic, opinionated and hypocritical. While upholding his public persona of being quiet and reserved, one must only listen to his choice of words and language to see through the thin masquerade.
:soda:
 
Misfit138 said:
I do have a Mac, as well as numerous windows and GNU/linux boxes. :)
Why do I hate Linus? Becuase he is an arrogant, presumptuous, elitist, self-important snob egomaniac who takes credit for "inventing 'Linux'" and insists that referring to Linux distros as GNU/Linux distros is "ridiculous". In Linus's opinion, "Linux" is not just the kernel, it is the OS. In the context of his contributions toward the Kernel as it exists today (less than 1% contribution) and the total percentage of source code which a kernel represents of a typical GNU/Linux distro, (less than 3%) vs. GNU and what it represents (more than 28% of a typical distro), I conclude that he is nothing more than a very lucky, selfish, opportunist at best.
Regardless of how persons feel about Richard Stallman and GNU, he and his project are the real McCoy..but because the majority of the community seems more, shall we say, enamored by Torvalds and his arrogant wit, Torvalds gets the credit and adoration while Stallman is viewed as the eccentric, mad philosopher.
And as a public kick in the balls, Stallman gets awarded the "Linus Torvalds achievment award" . Stallman gives a brief acceptance speech while Torvalds stands to the side on the same stage, playing with his toddler in a contrived posturing act, as if to say "I am normal, balanced and light hearted. Don't listen to Stallman rant and rave, he's an idiot." During his acceptance speech, Stallman gives credit for Linus's contribution in the form of the kernel, as Torvalds ignores Stallman, making a mockery of him, and ignoring Stallman's good humor about the whole situation.
Torvalds is nauseatingly sarcastic, opinionated and hypocritical. While upholding his public persona of being quiet and reserved, one must only listen to his choice of words and language to see through the thin masquerade.
:soda:
Click to expand...

wow. well. I'm just going to say 1) Linus did invent Linux. He started it all by himself 2) Gnu is the toolchain and Linux is the kernel, which is why RMS demands that it be called "GNU/Linux". I don't know if he has actually hinted that BSD should be "GNU/BSD" because they use GCC, but there has been more progress on creating a BSD licensed C compiler so the BSD's don't need to use the GPLed GCC and they won't have to deal with RMS.

i could go on but i'm going to stop because it's off topic for this thread.
 
I might not Like Linus' personality, but I do like what came of his work. And Stallman, I like his vision, although he is not perfect either. But I don't think either should be adored. Respected? Sure. Adored? No, you're odd :). Linus is very mouthy, Stallman's GPLv3 is a little over the edge. They each have their problems for sure.

Anyway, I like that people are critical of the MS/Novell deal, but I don't really think its going to affect much. There was a big hubub when it came about but now, its nothing more than the past.
 
Adragontattoo said:
So uh Misfit, do you have a dislike for Linus?

Your post doesnt make it quite clear and I just want to make sure.
Click to expand...

LMAO! Good one.

splat said:
wow. well. I'm just going to say 1) Linus did invent Linux. He started it all by himself 2) Gnu is the toolchain and Linux is the kernel, which is why RMS demands that it be called "GNU/Linux".
Click to expand...

Yes, Linus wrote the Linux kernel, but he consistently refers to complete distributions as "Linux", purposely taking credit for work that is not his and also purposely spiting GNU, and anyone else contributing to GNU/Linux.
* ..in an early 1999 interview Linus first time used the word "invented" toward Linux -- the word is completely inapplicable to the clone OS and very close to the Microsoft marketing style (as everybody knows Microsoft "invented Windows" by a blatant rip-off of the Mac GUI ;-). As always he failed to mention GNU (moreover, this time he even forgot to mention that the adoption of GPL license was the smartest thing he ever did and probably at this time he really has some reservations..

PC Week: Give us the short history of Linux's development.

Torvalds: Basically, I invented it eight years ago, almost exactly eight years ago. It started small, not even an operating system. It was just a personal project. I just was doing something fun with my new machine. It kind of evolved through luck and happenstance into an OS, simply because there was very much a void where there wasn't much choice for someone like me. I couldn't afford some of the commercial OSes and I didn't want to run DOS or Windows -- I don't even know, did Windows really exist then?
Click to expand...

More here: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Torvalds/selling_bazaar_to_cathedral.shtml
Well, thanks for listening to my rant.
The Novell deal is based on GREED and short-sightedness, like all business deals. :soda:
 
I actually think RMS is right that GNU/Linux is more accurate. You can't run Linux w/o GNU software. You cannot make even a basic working operating system. The GNU C library is a critical part of a working Linux distro. A kernel is not an OS. It's a very important part of it, but it's not an OS.

I think RMS deserves more credit than he gets, but I think that part of the reason he doesn't get more is because of his eccentric and abrasive personality. Linus is a better public image for the movement... people just like him more and he seems more normal.

However, it was RMS's vision that made it all possible.
 
MRD said:
I actually think RMS is right that GNU/Linux is more accurate. You can't run Linux w/o GNU software. You cannot make even a basic working operating system. The GNU C library is a critical part of a working Linux distro. A kernel is not an OS. It's a very important part of it, but it's not an OS.

I think RMS deserves more credit than he gets, but I think that part of the reason he doesn't get more is because of his eccentric and abrasive personality. Linus is a better public image for the movement... people just like him more and he seems more normal.

However, it was RMS's vision that made it all possible.
Click to expand...

I'm glad we agree on this. The only thing I disagree with is the word "abrasive". While Stallman is most certainly eccentric (like most uber-geeks I have met) I don't think he is necessarily abrasive. On the contrary, all of the media I have seen/heard/read of his words leads me to believe that although he is a bit odd, passionate, is a bit uncomfortable at public speaking, has poor posture and does not groom himself as fastidiously as the average person, he still strikes me as genuine and mild. However, Linus is abrasive, and his mild-mannered insults are still insults.
 
The problem I have with the name "GNU/Linux" is that its nothing more than a power grab by Stallman. Its analagous to the lead developer of GNOME repeatedly ask for title credit in the title for Ubuntu. Ubuntu is getting credit for work that *GNOME* did, so why not rename distro "GNOME/Ubuntu"?

I simply cannot wait for BSD to finish their toolchain so this whole thing can be put to rest. Though I suppose then Stallman could ask that the general term for a system running the Linux kernel be "GNU|BSD/Linux" since there will still be distros using GNU and we must acknoledge that fact. :rolleyes:

JigPu
 
The only thing I disagree with is the word "abrasive".
Click to expand...

I don't know, I've heard him be pretty rude sometimes. Like if you let slip the phrase, "Thank God", he'll point out that you're an idiot for believing in God. Now, whether you believe in God or not I don't care, and that's not the point, the point is that he is not very tolerant of others' ideas and feelings.

I do think he got screwed out of a lot of the credit for free software though, which is really his baby and wouldn't exist w/o him.

I don't think he's a bad person... quite the contrary. I just think he's socially not very adept, and so people don't really like him personally as much. Linus isn't like this, so many have chosen him as the representative of the free software movement.
 
MRD said:
I do think he got screwed out of a lot of the credit for free software though, which is really his baby and wouldn't exist w/o him.

I don't think he's a bad person... quite the contrary. I just think he's socially not very adept, and so people don't really like him personally as much.
Click to expand...

I agree here completely. As for Linus, I simply don't like him, despite that the majority of the community prefers his image to be the poster boy.
I just think Stallman deserves most of the credit that Linus gets.
 
Linus does deserve a good chunk of credit and is in fact a major player. I just think RMS deserves more credit than anyone, if for no other reason than the whole idea was his in the first place. I like and respect Linus, but I wish he'd make more of an effort to give RMS his due so that they could work together against the real enemy, proprietary software and, most of all, Microsoft.
 
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