[zexmarquies01]

a question for ya guys.


I was thinking earlier today, about how i always hear bad things about ionic style air filters, because they pump out "ozone" and stuff like that.

I'm wanting a better air filter for my room, that doesn't require me to constantly buy new filters. Also, i smoke, so i'd like something that can help get rid of smoke ( and possibly the smell, since my g/f doesn't like smoking ). Traditional filters arn't a good option. even if they do get rid of the smoke, and even if they get rid of the smell...the filter's in them have to be changed, and get nasty pretty quickly.

So are these ionic style filters as bad as everyone claims? and if i remember right, arn't there filters that use some of the same processes, but doesn't pump out ozone? ( that is, if the ozone that these units pump out is actually that bad ).

Or is the bad reputation a lot like the whole idea that cell phones will give you brain tumors type hysteria?

[Xenocide]

IIRC SSS had a rant on this a few years back....Ill see if i can dig it up.

EDIT:

Found it

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=17

[zexmarquies01]

Originally Posted by Xenocide

IIRC SSS had a rant on this a few years back....Ill see if i can dig it up.

EDIT:

Found it

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=17

thanks for the link. i suddenly remember reading that, even though it was over 2 years ago!


Well, then my next question. Is there a style filter that would work for my needs? as i said, Regular air filters would have to be constantly changed. as over time, the filter itself will begin to stink, thus, failing one of my needs.

[zexmarquies01]

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php...04&postcount=9

SSS posted that in the thread about getting puke smell off of a camera.

anyone think something along those lines would work? or would one of those only really be good for killing smells?

[techun]

im not gonna say it, because you dont want to hear it, but there's a solution to this problem that will actually create money for you

[zexmarquies01]

Originally Posted by techun

im not gonna say it, because you dont want to hear it, but there's a solution to this problem that will actually create money for you

haha. honestly, i was waiting for someone to just fully say it.

honestly, i don't see me quiting any time soon.


but at the same time, a good air filter will also greatly cut down on the dust build up in my computer as well.

[Hazaro]

I was thinking about something similar, and came up with a big 300mm fan and a mesh in front/back.

Just leave it on and empty the dust

I'd like to hear other suggestions though. (No smoking in this house, but the air isn't good, and neither is the air outside).

[TommyHolly]

The problem with many of these Air Filters is the fact they generate Ozone. Its late so I dont have time to look for the study on the EPA website but this is good enough.

Ozone is a potent lung irritant and exposure to elevated levels is a contributor to the exacerbation of lung disease; it is especially dangerous for persons with asthma and other chronic lung diseases, children, and the elderly. Residential indoor ozone is produced directly by ozone generators and indirectly by ion generators and some other electronic air cleaners. There is no difference, despite some manufacturers' claims, between outdoor ozone and ozone produced by these devices.

Since you are already smoking, I doubt you are that concerned about the quality of your air...LOL The Ionic Ozone producing air filters will help with the smell from the cigarettes but thats like saying drinking a bottle of Pinesol will clean your insides and leave you with a lemon fresh scent...heh heh

[SteveLord]

I have a small version of the Ionic Breeze in my kids room and my bedroom. Is it really that bad? Maybe I should take em out.......

[TommyHolly]

Originally Posted by SteveLord

I have a small version of the Ionic Breeze in my kids room and my bedroom. Is it really that bad? Maybe I should take em out.......

YIKES! Yeah that is bad. (If it happens to be one of the models tthat really cranks out the Ozone, some are no problem.) It also depends on how close the filter is to your child...

I was at my buddy's house and I smelled Ozone. I asked him do you have one of those Ionic filter things around here? He replied "Yeah I have one in all rooms of the house." After seeing the EPA website, he freaked and ran around the house shutting that thing off. he had a filter RIGHT NEXT to his kid's head. His daughter was going to the Doctors office frequently with respitory infection and breathing problems! Once he removed the filter, there was an imporvement.

I showed him the EPA website and it had a warning about his model. (and about how people usually put it in thier kids rooms.) It talked about the closer that thing is to your child the worse it is.
EDIT: Here is the website!! http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html

[SteveLord]

I turned em off lastnight and told my wife to leave them unplugged for now. I don't see models anywhere on that site and can't find a list of them.

Damn these things aren't cheap either. I got the smaller ones and it still cost me like $200 back then.

[Alien1099]

Ionic breeze type machines are junk. If it sounds too good to be true, it likely is. If you really want to filter your air I'm fairly certain you'll have to go with a filter that actually has real filters.

You're not gonna like the answer, but if you want to rid yourself of the problems associated with smoking, just quit. It really is a waste of money, a waste of lung cells, and an all around nasty habit. If you want to smoke, that's cool and your choice. If you want to smoke and want clean air, skip the ionics and get something that has charcoal + HEPA disposable filter and resolve yourself to replacing it once a month.

Reminds me of people who regularly drink so much that they are hungover all the time and want some sort of pill like "Chaser" to help alleviate the effects. I'm certain if they quit drinking or if they at least didn't drink as much and could control themselves they wouldn't have problems either.

Or obese people looking for weight loss pills... etc etc.

Here's an interesting tidbit about Sharper Image and their purifiers: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16715088/

[conway]

Originally Posted by Alien1099

Reminds me of people who regularly drink so much that they are hungover all the time and want some sort of pill like "Chaser" to help alleviate the effects.

Hey, it works. You could get another case of beer for the cost of the pills though.

[Silversinksam]

Here's my two cents. I did a bit of research before I decided I wanted an ozone generator, I know full well the pro's and con's of these devices.

First of all, many of the negative ion generators create small amounts of 03 (ozone) as a by product. The amount of 03 created as a by product is usually far less than the EPA suggested .05mg/hour ozone limit. So low it's insignaficant.

With that said, ozone generators such as the one I have (This unit can put out 570mg/hour of 03, luckily it has two plates and I took one plate out, I can put it back in if I want to shock treat items in a closed non occupied room. Both plates create to much 03, so one was removed)

Now I have two 03 generators, as I was shopping for an in-duct uv system to mount in the a/c air ducts, I happened across a Ecoquest UVX for a song and bought a 2nd ozone generator. Going to give one to a friend that owns a used car lot to make the old smelly cars smell new. For removing smells, mold, dust mites and funk, ozone generators are in a class by themselves. Just remember, Ozone generators no matter what the manufacturers state, are not air cleaners. While they can sanitize the air, they aren't air cleaners per say, ozone does not remove particles (dust and pollen) from the air, including the particles that cause most allergies, although some ozone generators have a secondary function of a high powered neg ion generator independent from the 03 controls, and some 03 generators have a pre filter for slight particle control, but to remove particles from the air, one needs a HEPA type of air cleaner. (I have a HEPA/ carbon furnace filter on my a/c ducts enter air) I then use negative ion air cleaners in select locations, namely my litterbox and my office.

A buddy of mine came over two nights ago and he lit up a cigar in my place, we all know they stink. I have the Ozone generator wired to a remote control like this, so I can turn it on for a few minutes and the cigar smell was removed. I use the ozone generator for spot cleaning and sanitizing like with my buddy with the cigar, when I'm not home or go to bed, I simply turn off the 03 controls, and let the ozone unit make neg ions for safe semi effective air cleaning.

Are 03 generators hazardous? You bet your ass, But used properly they are an effective tool, they will remove almost any organic odor and many chemical odors. Can an ionizer function the same? No, but negative ion generators are useful for removing air contaminants, but they are limited and only clean a small area, certainly not the whole room. For effective air cleaning, nothing beats a good HEPA air cleaners, even better if it has a neg ion fountain built in, but for removing funk, mold and nasty smells, ozone generators used properly, cannot be beat. As HEPA filters and Neg. Ion generators CANNOT kill mild and such. That's why Ozone gen. were used and still are in flooded New Orleans after the flood.

Originally Posted by SteveLord

I have a small version of the Ionic Breeze in my kids room and my bedroom. Is it really that bad? Maybe I should take em out.......

No, it's not creating anywhere near the .05mg/hr. You have no worries.

[Malpine Walis]

Originally Posted by TommyHolly

YIKES! Yeah that is bad. (If it happens to be one of the models tthat really cranks out the Ozone, some are no problem.) It also depends on how close the filter is to your child...

I was at my buddy's house and I smelled Ozone. I asked him do you have one of those Ionic filter things around here? He replied "Yeah I have one in all rooms of the house." After seeing the EPA website, he freaked and ran around the house shutting that thing off. he had a filter RIGHT NEXT to his kid's head.

Double YIKES!!!

Ozone is a corrosive gas, so no wonder the kid had problems.

On the other hand, ozone does have valid uses, just not when people are around. If you want to use an ozone machine at home, put it on a timer so that it only runs when nobody is around and shuts off an hour before anyone gets home. Ozone being what it is, it degrades quite rapidly and an hour should be enough time for it to break down.

Might as well ban water because it is the leading cause of drowning.

However, you should also note that ozone will not help with smoke as smoke is a particle and that has to be filtered out of the air the normal way.

[Silversinksam]

Originally Posted by Malpine Walis

However, you should also note that ozone will not help with smoke as smoke is a particle and that has to be filtered out of the air the normal way.

True enough, but the ozone is used to help neutralize the toxic components of the smoke as well as remove it's foul odor. I mentioned one should have a good HEPA air cleaner, an ozone generator and a good HEPA air cleaner is the one-two knockout punch for dealing with smoke.

Disclaimer: One shouldn't be a knucklehead and buy an Ozone generator, plug it in and put it on high then leave it running 24/7. Like Malpine said, a timer is a good option, these are best for when the house in vacant. after an hour or less the 03 turns back to oxygen and then when your home, just use an ionizer or a HEPA filtered air cleaner.

Ebay's a good place to buy a as new ozone generator, idiots buy them, then expect it to be 'THE AIR' cleaner and they run them 24/7, some people are more sensative to ozone than others, so when those that are sensitive start having bloody noses, or constant mucous, they unplug their ozone machine and sell it on Ebay. Got mine there for $41, it retailed at $500

[zexmarquies01]

ok, so my best option would be to get a good HEPA air filter to remove all the small particles of dust and such from my room.

And then a Ozone generator to eliminate smells. Mind you, we also have a dog, and a cat. and the dog LOVES to sleep in my room. And while the dog never urinates in the house, i still have that dog smell in here.

Also, my room is only about 8 feet wide, by about 15 feet long, and 8 feet tall. So i don't really need a super strong filters/ionizers. simply because my room is small as hell.

but, i'll check ebay. see if there are any good deals on some ionizers. and i'll check some stores to see if i can find a nice HEPA air filter as well.

[TommyHolly]

Just so you guys know, any "reputable" science study on O-Zone has shown that O-Zone does not kill germs, viruses, and get rid of odor. (The filter of the machine its attached to will but the O-Zone itself is harmfull.)

In fact, take a look at the EPA studies and you'll see that in cases involving odor removal, the O-Zone actucally combined with the odor causing elements and "the reaction produced a variety of aldehydes, and the total concentration of organic chemicals in the air increased rather than decreased after the introduction of ozone (Weschler, et. al., 1992b)" Take a look at the middle of the page to the link I provided a few posts above.

All you need is a good Air Filter... No need at all for the O-Zone generator.

[Silversinksam]

Originally Posted by TommyHolly

Just so you guys know, any "reputable" science study on O-Zone has shown that O-Zone does not kill germs, viruses, and get rid of odor. (The filter of the machine its attached to will but the O-Zone itself is harmfull.)

In fact, take a look at the EPA studies and you'll see that in cases involving odor removal, the O-Zone actucally combined with the odor causing elements and "the reaction produced a variety of aldehydes, and the total concentration of organic chemicals in the air increased rather than decreased after the introduction of ozone (Weschler, et. al., 1992b)" Take a look at the middle of the page to the link I provided a few posts above.

All you need is a good Air Filter... No need at all for the O-Zone generator.

Tommy, Have you ever used an ozone generator first hand my friend?

They can remove strong odors, KILL GERMS and much more. There are risks I've mentioned and I've read most of the EPA ozone reports and suggestions. The reason there's so much MISINFORMATION is because the EPA sued many ozone manufacturers some time back, the claim was they exaggerated the uses (primarily the chemical removal claims) and the EPA had issues with the the units being called an 'Air Cleaner' which technically it is not. Keep in mind I could care less about the manufacturers claims, all I know is what it can and cannot do, and ozone generators can and do REMOVE ODORS, KILL GERMS and more.

If you don't believe it, try actually using one and seeing for yourself. Then report back with what you've discovered first hand and not third party, manufacturer, or EPA data. The EPA data is good reading as it makes you better understand ozone and how best to use them safely.

Originally Posted by zexmarquies01

ok, so my best option would be to get a good HEPA air filter to remove all the small particles of dust and such from my room.

And then a Ozone generator to eliminate smells. Mind you, we also have a dog, and a cat. and the dog LOVES to sleep in my room. And while the dog never urinates in the house, i still have that dog smell in here.

Also, my room is only about 8 feet wide, by about 15 feet long, and 8 feet tall. So i don't really need a super strong filters/ionizers. simply because my room is small as hell.

but, i'll check ebay. see if there are any good deals on some ionizers. and i'll check some stores to see if i can find a nice HEPA air filter as well.

Just yesterday I schlepped the ozone unit to a friends home. Her dog does pee on the carpet on a regular basis, plus is a flea bag even though I give the dog advantage every month for her. Yesterday I lit three bug bombs in her home, then aired it out, then used the ozone generator in the area the dog pees on. The ozone unit ridded the home of the bug bomb stench, then eliminated the urine smell. But Tommy claims they don't work, so both me and my neighbors must be hallucinating and the urine stench being dissipated must have been a figment of our imaginations.

[TommyHolly]

I used to have one about 3 years ago until I found out about all the "implied" issues with them. I now have a normal Hepa-Filter and I haven't noticed a difference. Keep in mind I DO NOT have pets so I may not be witnessing the same results that you guys have. I have the occasional smoker in my house so thats the only thing I worry about... (Well I actually worry about RADON gas a whole lot more but we've beaten that one to death on about 5 other threads recently.)

Also there are Ionic air filters out there that don't have the Ozone generator. I'm looking at getting one of those.