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Which OS For Me?

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reid18

Registered
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Hello. Inkfx (a long time member of OCForums and my main guy when it comes to building my PCs) and I have been discussing which OS I should buy. I am not very familar with anything besides XP 32 Bit so I am coming here for advice on what to buy.

What I Plan on Doing (Besides the obvious music listening and web browsing)
  • Recording and Editing Uncompressed 720p Footage
  • Playing COD4, CS:S and possibly COD2
  • Recording in FRAPS while playing the previously listed games.

Soon-To-Be PC Specs

For me, I want Vista Ultimate 64 Bit to utilize the 8 gigs of RAM, because things will stop being made for XP soon and just for overall faster computing.

What do you guys think? I definitely want 64 Bit either way.
 
I don't think you'll need Vista Ultimate... You could probably save some money and get
Vista Home Premium.

XP Pro x64 is an option too. Support ends for the OS in 2014.
 
I almost swore I read that everything is going Vista by next year. Maybe not.

Well I have heard that XP works much better with games for the PC, but then the 8 gigs will have been a waste. I guess I could return the other 4 or sell them.
 
I thought even XP64 could utilize 4 max. I suck.

Just read up on it and XP 64 Bit seems like my best bet although people say games work just as bad with that as they do Vista 64.
 
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I thought even XP64 could utilize 4 max. I suck.

Just read up on it and XP 64 Bit seems like my best bet although people say games work just as bad with that as they do Vista 64.

nope :p 32 bit can manage up to 3.5 with entries via registry

64 can go up to what, like 16 TB?
 
I think I will be going with XP64 although some programs will obviously not work with it.

Vista seems pointless right now because of the severity of decrease in game performace. i may upgrade to Vista when SP1 is released.
 
I, in a simialr situation went with the vista option. I'll be installing everything this weekend when it's built. You may want to check with the manufacturer websites to see if they have the 64bit drivers available. I think you'll find that most name-brand companies will. Your selections look good enough to handle vista without that many hiccups, although XP is notably more stable at this point, most need to realize that xp was just as bad when it came out. Alot of people who review vista so badly also do not have either the system to run it or the know-how to optimize it. There's a plethora of info on this site regarding vista. So just pick whichever you like, I wanted to try vista (plus support will probably be better as we go). Make sure there are drivers before you get x64 if your ursing any specific video editing software.
 
For me, I want Vista Ultimate 64 Bit to utilize the 8 gigs of RAM, because things will stop being made for XP soon and just for overall faster computing.
Well, first of all, you do need 64 bit, either XP or some version of Vista, to access your RAM. That's a given.

Second, "for overall faster computing", 32 bit is generally a bit faster or the same speed, and XP has consistently outperformed Vista in all gaming applications, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot. Even with driver optimizations closing the gap somewhat, there remains a real performance benefit to XP over Vista in gaming. There seems to be the general misconception that 64 bit is inherently faster than 32 bit. While it's true that 64 bit *chips*, e.g. C2D, Athlon 64 X2, etc. are faster than the older 32 bit chips, it's not because they are 64 bit. The move to 64 bit was made largely because of the need to address more memory in an efficient manner, which a 64 bit chip can do. (Basically a 32 bit chip can only access 2^32 bits of memory, it lacks the ability to distinguish between a larger number of separate bits natively). Benchmarks of the same hardware running 32 bit and 64 bit versions of an app show virtually no difference. One exception might be software that must compute things to a VERY high degree of precision, as a 64 bit OS and chip can do this natively, but we're talking about really rare apps, generally more precision than we can even come close to measuring in anything in the real world. (Such apps would most often be used in theoretical academic applications, quantum mechanical modelling, computational solutions in applied mathematics, etc.)

The biggest reason to go Vista right now is DX10 if you are a gamer. None of the games you listed are DX10 though. Even with DX10, it will be a long time before DX10 becomes a requirement for gaming.

As for what version of Vista to buy, don't waste your money on Vista Ultimate. There's virtually no difference between Ultimate and Home Premium, yet there's a big price difference. Unless you can articulate a reason to go with Ultimate, don't. Most people who have forked over the cash for it are resenting it because of the lack of advantages and the huge price tag. Ask yourself WHY exactly you want Ultimate, and make yourself list something it has that you care about before you spend the cash on it.

64 can go up to what, like 16 TB?
In theory, a true 64 bit chip could go up to 2^64 bits, or 18,446,744,073,709,551,616, or approximately 18 exabytes. That's a lot of space (an exabyte is 1024 petabytes, which is 1024 terabytes, which is 1024 gigabytes). The OS's are not written to handle this, and in fact, what we refer to as 64 bit chips are not fully 64 bit. The Athlon 64 uses a 40 bit (about 1 terabyte) physical memory addressing space and a 48 bit virtual memory addressing space (about 256 terabytes).

I guess they just figured there was no use at this point in time for addressing 18 exabytes of RAM. It gives you an idea though of how long it will be before we need to move from 64 bit chips to 128 bit chips for memory address space issues.

Another fun way to look at it is that if every human being on the planet (assuming 6 billion people) had 3.2gb of RAM, a single 64 bit chip has a sufficiently large memory addressing space to address all of this RAM at once (physical issues of connecting it all aside, of course).
 
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So, you think my best bet for now would be to get XP32?

If that is so, anyone want to buy my other 4 gigs of ram for me?

Seriously though, this is kind of a disappointment to me as I was hoping this PC would seem noticeably different with a 64 Bit OS.
 
No I do not. XP32 will not address all of your RAM. While 64 bit OS's are not faster by nature than 32 bit OS's, adding 4GB of RAM can make them faster, not because they are 64 bit, but because of the extra RAM.

I'm not sure anything nowadays actually uses 8GB of RAM, so one could make a strong argument that you bought more than you need and more than will matter, but if you actually are using RAM above 4GB, a 64 bit OS will be faster for you, because it can use your RAM.

I'm trying to dispel the myth though that 64 bit is inherently faster than 32 bit. The primary difference, and the reason the migration occurred when it did was that systems were fast approaching the memory addressing limits of a 32 bit chip.

A 32 bit system can't even access a full 4 GB since the video RAM also counts as well as some other parts of the addressing space being allocated for other system resources. Realistically you can expect to see about 3.5GB with a 32 bit OS.

If I were you, assuming I had no OS at all and had to buy something new, I'd buy a 64 bit OS. If you want gaming speed, XP is faster in every test, by varying amounts (google benchmarks between Vista and XP in gaming). If you want DX10, you should get Vista. (Personally I've seen dx9 vs dx10 screenshots, and I like the dx9 look better, but they do look different for sure. I suggest you do some googling yourself and decide if you think dx10 really looks better... a lot of people think so, and I'm probably in the minority there.)

If you get Vista, Ultimate is a waste of money and definitely will not be faster. They throw in a couple useless things and charge you twice as much. Try to find one of those charts showing the differences in features between the various Vista OS's and decide which you actually need. Do not just buy the best one because you want the best... you will find that for the most part it's wasted money you could use on upgrading hardware in a way that would be much more meaningful to your gaming experience. That being said, I'm not sure I'd go home basic either... but whatever version you buy, if you go with Vista, be sure you can articulate why you are spending the money over the lower version. A lot of power users tend to think that home premium is the sweet spot, but it really varies between people.
 
No I do not. XP32 will not address all of your RAM. While 64 bit OS's are not faster by nature than 32 bit OS's, adding 4GB of RAM can make them faster, not because they are 64 bit, but because of the extra RAM.

I'm not sure anything nowadays actually uses 8GB of RAM, so one could make a strong argument that you bought more than you need and more than will matter, but if you actually are using RAM above 4GB, a 64 bit OS will be faster for you, because it can use your RAM.

I'm trying to dispel the myth though that 64 bit is inherently faster than 32 bit. The primary difference, and the reason the migration occurred when it did was that systems were fast approaching the memory addressing limits of a 32 bit chip.

A 32 bit system can't even access a full 4 GB since the video RAM also counts as well as some other parts of the addressing space being allocated for other system resources. Realistically you can expect to see about 3.5GB with a 32 bit OS.

If I were you, assuming I had no OS at all and had to buy something new, I'd buy a 64 bit OS. If you want gaming speed, XP is faster in every test, by varying amounts (google benchmarks between Vista and XP in gaming). If you want DX10, you should get Vista. (Personally I've seen dx9 vs dx10 screenshots, and I like the dx9 look better, but they do look different for sure. I suggest you do some googling yourself and decide if you think dx10 really looks better... a lot of people think so, and I'm probably in the minority there.)

If you get Vista, Ultimate is a waste of money and definitely will not be faster. They throw in a couple useless things and charge you twice as much. Try to find one of those charts showing the differences in features between the various Vista OS's and decide which you actually need. Do not just buy the best one because you want the best... you will find that for the most part it's wasted money you could use on upgrading hardware in a way that would be much more meaningful to your gaming experience. That being said, I'm not sure I'd go home basic either... but whatever version you buy, if you go with Vista, be sure you can articulate why you are spending the money over the lower version. A lot of power users tend to think that home premium is the sweet spot, but it really varies between people.
Your posts are nothing short of magnificent. Thank you very much for taking the time to explain all of this to a new guy in a huge PC world.

I will, yes, purchas a 64 Bit OS but for me, I honestly cannot decide between Vista and XP. I want to Game for sure (I have only gamed on the 360 thus far and CS:S looks too amazing to just ignore it) but the main reasons I am getting this newer PC is for overall smoother operations in Adobe After Effects and such (CS3 does work with 64 Bit OSes, my freind uses XP64 and it runs flawlessy on his system).

What I would like to do is get XP64 until SP1 for Vista comes out, but being a new guy, I have no idea how I would reformat, set up the raid and OC. I am sure with research and help from here, I could accomplish it but I am not sure.
 
I'm not sure SP1 for Vista will be a big deal. I think it's either out now or due out very soon, so if that's all your waiting for, just go with Vista or you'll end up wasting money. I think it's finally out of beta and available (I was just reading that on another thread not long ago.)

Personally, I would go with XP64... but many others would choose Vista. I'm a gamer, and I wouldn't trade the fps for the eye candy of Vista. I also am a strong advocate of free software, which is antithetical to the DRM present in Vista. For some this is a huge issue, for some it's not an issue at all, you decide.

Back to gaming speed... especially if you end up with 8gb and an nvidia 9800 when they come out, you may have so much overkill that losing a few fps doesn't matter (you can only see fps up to your screen refresh anyways, beyond that, it's meaningless, and some studies have even shown a loss of quality when your fps goes over your refresh rate). Ideally you want a system that can go higher than your refresh rate and you want to frame limit the game to match your screen's refresh rate (you can set this in the advanced settings of your video driver, it usually ranges from 60 to 85).

It is also true that XP64 will not be supported as long as Vista, although it still has many years of support left (probably 5+, but not sure exactly), and you seem like the kind of person that doesn't mind paying a premium to keep upgrading. You probably aren't looking at this as a 10 year computer, but more like a year or 2 before you upgrade to something faster (or you wouldn't be hitting the very top end component for each part of your system).
 
One more thing I thought of...

A Core 2 Quad may not be the fastest CPU for gaming. I'm better versed in AMD chips, but here's something to think about. Very few games cam use more than one core at a time. That means that your game will probably run faster on a C2D at 2.8 ghz than on a C2Q at 2.4 ghz. Eventually games may take advantage of the multiple cores better, but at this time they mostly do not.

Personally I'm about to build a new rig myself for gaming. I'm more of an AMD guy (though right now the C2D/Q is superior to anything AMD has at the high end). I looked at the Agena which is a quad core at 2.3 ghz versus the X2 64 6400+ which is 3.2 ghz (but only 2 cores instead of 4). I'm going with the latter. It's cheaper, but I believe it will also be faster for gaming. Each core is roughly the same between the cpu's at the same speed (there are no major architectural differences). Since my games will likely be running on one core only, or 2 at most, the 3.2 ghz dual core will likely outperform the quad core 2.3 ghz.

Something to consider.

Either way, buy a motherboard that will let you upgrade to quad core later. If your goal is something like folding@home which does run on all 4 cores, then by all means go with the C2Q, it will produce a higher folding output.
 
I'm not sure SP1 for Vista will be a big deal. I think it's either out now or due out very soon, so if that's all your waiting for, just go with Vista or you'll end up wasting money. I think it's finally out of beta and available (I was just reading that on another thread not long ago.)

Personally, I would go with XP64... but many others would choose Vista. I'm a gamer, and I wouldn't trade the fps for the eye candy of Vista. I also am a strong advocate of free software, which is antithetical to the DRM present in Vista. For some this is a huge issue, for some it's not an issue at all, you decide.

Back to gaming speed... especially if you end up with 8gb and an nvidia 9800 when they come out, you may have so much overkill that losing a few fps doesn't matter (you can only see fps up to your screen refresh anyways, beyond that, it's meaningless, and some studies have even shown a loss of quality when your fps goes over your refresh rate). Ideally you want a system that can go higher than your refresh rate and you want to frame limit the game to match your screen's refresh rate (you can set this in the advanced settings of your video driver, it usually ranges from 60 to 85).

It is also true that XP64 will not be supported as long as Vista, although it still has many years of support left (probably 5+, but not sure exactly), and you seem like the kind of person that doesn't mind paying a premium to keep upgrading. You probably aren't looking at this as a 10 year computer, but more like a year or 2 before you upgrade to something faster (or you wouldn't be hitting the very top end component for each part of your system).
I see. I have the monitor here and I have no idea how to interpret those numbers.

I do plan on upping to a 9800 soon, but the main thing stopping me from getting Vista is not decreasing FPS bur rather the bugs with PC games and other stuff that is not yet sorted out.

I am going to a lift for an hour or so but when I get back I plan on making my decision. In your next post, if you could, list the major Pros and Cons of both XP and Vista. It will not go overlooked.
 
One more thing I thought of...

A Core 2 Quad may not be the fastest CPU for gaming. I'm better versed in AMD chips, but here's something to think about. Very few games cam use more than one core at a time. That means that your game will probably run faster on a C2D at 2.8 ghz than on a C2Q at 2.4 ghz. Eventually games may take advantage of the multiple cores better, but at this time they mostly do not.

Personally I'm about to build a new rig myself for gaming. I'm more of an AMD guy (though right now the C2D/Q is superior to anything AMD has at the high end). I looked at the Agena which is a quad core at 2.3 ghz versus the X2 64 6400+ which is 3.2 ghz (but only 2 cores instead of 4). I'm going with the latter. It's cheaper, but I believe it will also be faster for gaming. Each core is roughly the same between the cpu's at the same speed (there are no major architectural differences). Since my games will likely be running on one core only, or 2 at most, the 3.2 ghz dual core will likely outperform the quad core 2.3 ghz.

Something to consider.

Either way, buy a motherboard that will let you upgrade to quad core later. If your goal is something like folding@home which does run on all 4 cores, then by all means go with the C2Q, it will produce a higher folding output.
Well, the recording and editing of 720p uncompressed footage is where the C2Q comes in, the main reason I actually am upgrading to this PC is for better overall performance in the video editing and recording areas. Gaming is an extra, but an extra I hope to soon become a primary reason as to why I later upgrade.
 
We'll assume 64 bit in both cases.

Advantages to Vista over XP:

More modern, will be supported longer
DX10
Pretty GUI (Aero)

Advnatages to XP over Vista:

Faster in gaming (and in general)
Less resource intensive, does more with less
Better driver compatibility
More stable OS, better tested and hardened
Wider compatibility with software, almost everything except DX10 will work with XP
Much less restrictive DRM system, fewer limits to your freedom to control what you do with your computer

Over time you can expect Vista will become more stable and driver situation will improve. It will always remain more resource intensive and slower than XP.

If your video editing software can use all 4 cores, then yes, you'll get better performance with a core 2 quad than a core 2 duo, even with a somewhat lower clock speed. Video editing is pretty demanding too, so I can definitely see it mattering. I don't really do video editing. Some transcoding here and there but not much, so with gaming being my primary concern for speed, I go for the faster cores, not the higher number of cores. Check your video editing software and make sure it can make use of all those cores. I am not an expert on that kind of thing, and I don't know for sure how well it can utilize a quad core cpu.
 
Thanks. I am 99% sure it can. Also, switching from a C2D to a C2Q with the same exact RAM (and amount) in both cases, After Effects was much smoother and reponsive on the C2Q.

Thanks again, XP it is.
 
MRD is defiantly on the right track. XP 64-bit will more than likely be your best bet. I just want to mention a few things that might rub MRD the wrong way a little(i know you hate, no... dispise vista)... but they should be said.

Vista, while "bloated" compared to XP, does come with more features that are handy.

Vista has arguably the best memory management system of all of M$'s Personal Computer OS's. I believe the feature is called SuperFetch-- What it does is it'll pre-load all your frequently used applications into memory for fast access. It'll also un-load all those apps if for whatever reason you need to access that memory for other tasks. While it doesnt sound like much of a feature for the end-user, it does make the OS super smooth in operation.

Vista also handles program crashes like a champ compared to XP. Although I can't go into great detail of how the OS handles the crashes(because I simply dont know the details)... I can say that I've had program crashes that would normally require a restart in XP, and Vista would walk away from the crash running perfectly fine.(Being a fellow CS player, you know how bad Steam can be at times)

A few other minor features I find handy:

The "super search" -- vista indexes all your files so it can find them fast and easily-- I find this handy because if I know the name of a file that is buried in folders, the search utility pulls it up in a fraction the time it would take for me to dig it up.

The OS also defrags itself when its idle.

Honestly reid, either way you go-- I'm sure you'll be happy. Your hardware is high-end enough to where you wouldn't notice the "bloat" of vista that so many complain about.
 
Yeah, all of what you said sounds great, and I have been thinking that most people that complain about Vista don't have the hardware to run it.
 
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