[immersive]

I came to this sweet forum for advice on building a nice MicroATX PC. I've been out of the scene for awhile, so I'm a little rusty... This will be used as an everyday computer for general stuff and at this point, no OC'ing is needed.

My budget is around $900.

Here is a setup thrown together from a quick browse at NewEgg.

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield
Board: ASUS P5E-VM HDMI LGA 775 Intel G35 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
RAM: OCZ ReaperX HPC 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2
Case: ASUS TM-210
DVD: HP 20X DVD±R DVD Burner w/sata
Fans: SilenX IXP-54-09 80mm & Antec 761345-75093-6 92mm
HDD: SAMSUNG 750GB 7200 RPM SATA


Hopefully my OCZ GameXStream700W Power Supply will fit in the MicroATX case.

Please let me know if this looks ok to you. Thanks!

[GameSinewPCs]

Immersive,

You seem to have a good idea towards what you want to build, but keep in mind some of the following suggestions.

Processor-Q6600: For general everyday use will you really be needing all of that power? If you absolutely desire a quad, then this is one of the few situations where I will recommend a phenom as it will save you a good amount of money (I recommend the 2.2Ghz phenom 9500). If you intend to overclock, Game or run large cpu intensive programs then the Q6600 is a great way to go. Also, don't be afraid to consider an even less expensive Athlon X2 such as the X2 5000+ (2.6Ghz) which sits at an optimal price/performance ratio to suit yourn needs.

Board-Asus P5E-VM: If you decide to stick with the Q6600 then I recommend dropping down your board to an Asus P5B-VM model as it will save you cash and not really sacrifice any significant features. However, as i mentioned above, I recommend going with an AMD platform for this build as they currently have the best handle on onboard graphics. Seriously consider the Asus M3A78-EMH with 780G chipset. This is a relatively inexpensive yet extremely cost effective board with the market's leading onboard graphics.

Ram: I personally prefer Corsair, but this is a preferential thing and I have no problem suggesting OCZ.

Case: I have used and like the Cooler Master Elite Micro ATX Cases, but again this is a preferential thing.

DVD: I tend to use Lite-On the most, but the market is fairly straight forward and most any drive maker will do.

Fans: SilenX fans tend to be hit or miss, but are good fans overal. For your 80mm fan in this particular case I would recommend an Ennermax as they are inexpensive and dead silent. Though, Integrated fans aren't always that aweful. This is an option you could wait to consider after you have assembled the rest of the system. For 120mm Fans I prefer Scythe USA, though they tend to be pricier. If you do go with a case that uses 120mmfans, then 1 800rpm Scythe Fluid Dynamic fan should work great and will be inaudible.

HDD: Again, more of a preference, but I "prefer" Western Digital Drives as I have been using them for years. Will you really need a 750GB hard drive for an "everyday PC?" If so then your samsung will work fine.

Power Supply: Yes people tell you "don't skimp on the power supply," but that doesn't necessarily mean by a KW powersupply for an office machine. What is more important is that you have sufficient wattage (with about 100Watt headroom or more) and sufficient Amperage for your system. Also, higher rated PSU's are important as well. I would recommend for this system a Thermaltake Purepower 500 Watt Power supply. Unless of course you intend to add a lot of devices to the system that will use a lot more power?

Recommended Configuration:
Case: Cooler Master Elite 340 with Scythe 120mm S-Flex 800rpm case fan
CPU: Athlon X2 5000+ Brisbane (2.6Ghz)
PowerSupply: Thermaltake Purepower 500Watt
Ram: 4GB(2x2GB) Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800
DVD: Lite-On 20xDVD Burner Sata3.0Gb/s
HDD: WD 750GB Sata 3.0Gb/s w 16mb cache
Motherboard: Asus M3A78-EMH
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit

Price = around $680

I noticed afterwards that you apparantly are reusing your OCZ 700W psu. If this is indeed the case then yes it should fit in the cooler master case (though I'm not 100% positive on this) and I'm not sure about the asus (they appear to be roughly the same size, though I've never worked with that asus before). Deducting the Thermaltake PSU from the system price Brings it down to around $620.

Good luck with the system, and feel free to respond here, pm me or email me at Olg4436@Game-Sinew.com with any questions.

I hope that this helps,


-Bryce D Germain

[immersive]

Thanks for the help Bryce!

I have considered all of your suggestions. While this build will be for everyday use, as you can probably tell, I want it to pack a punch also. I will also be using it for web design, HTPC, recording and more.

After thinking about it, why not OC a little? As long as the heat is not to bad in these little cases, I don't mind OC'ing as my current rig is OC'ed. I could Lap the chip and heatsink for a little better cooling and just enough to OC a little.

Could someone suggest the best heatsink for the for the Q6600 that is relatively small (so it will fit in the case) and not to heavy (I'll need to transport PC without taking heatsink off).

Here is what I'm now thinking:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Board: ASUS P5E-VM
RAM: CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB)
Case: ASUS TM-210
Fans: ENERMAX UC-8EB 80mm & Antec 761345-75093-6 92mm
DVD: LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
HDD: I was thinking the 32mb cache would be nice but I've read reviews and all the drives sound bad. I'd like 500GB to 750GB. Any suggestions??
Heatsink: ZALMAN CNPS9500??

Thanks!

[GameSinewPCs]

Immersive,

I usually use a Zalman 9700Led with my overclocks, but this may be too big for your case. The 9500 92mm (as you asked) should work great in your system. Also, the 9500 has a backplate, so it should sit fine during transport (jus so you're aware, the CNPS9500 is AM2 compatable, you will need a Zalman 9500A 92mm copper).

As for the HDDs, I recommend waiting on the 32mb Cache models as they are indeed having some issues that need to be worked out. Most vendor's 16mb cache HDD's will work nicely. Consider Western Digital, Seagate and Samsung (there are others that should not give you any problems either such as fujitsu, Maxtor and Hitachi). The Western Digital and the Seagates are both great due to their 5 Year warranties.

If you're thinking about a HTPC and want to go with Intel, then consider throwing in an Nvidia 8400GT or an ATI 2400xt or HD3450.

[splat]

i'd get this psu: Corsair VX550 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004

[JamesXP]

There is nothing wrong with the GameXstream unless your drawng over 500W from it, then ripple happens.

[myststix]

If you going to do any serious work, you may want to reconsider a small form factor case. Heat will build up quickly, and/or you would need a prodigious amount of fans to keep it cool.

As for a CPU, I would recommend my own 6400x2. It's at a great price right now, and more than enough horsepower for most applications. Of course, a low end Duo Core would also be good if you want to overclock, but that of course, means heat!

[ratbuddy]

Originally Posted by immersive

Thanks for the help Bryce!

I have considered all of your suggestions. While this build will be for everyday use, as you can probably tell, I want it to pack a punch also. I will also be using it for web design, HTPC, recording and more.

After thinking about it, why not OC a little? As long as the heat is not to bad in these little cases, I don't mind OC'ing as my current rig is OC'ed. I could Lap the chip and heatsink for a little better cooling and just enough to OC a little.

Could someone suggest the best heatsink for the for the Q6600 that is relatively small (so it will fit in the case) and not to heavy (I'll need to transport PC without taking heatsink off).

Here is what I'm now thinking:
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Board: ASUS P5E-VM
RAM: CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB)
Case: ASUS TM-210
Fans: ENERMAX UC-8EB 80mm & Antec 761345-75093-6 92mm
DVD: LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
HDD: I was thinking the 32mb cache would be nice but I've read reviews and all the drives sound bad. I'd like 500GB to 750GB. Any suggestions??
Heatsink: ZALMAN CNPS9500??

Thanks!

I'd skip the Zalman. Ultima-90 is nice and small, but performs very close to the big dogs. Here's a few charts from anananandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3068&p=4

The 9500 doesn't even come close..

Oh yeah. Consider the Silverstone TJ08 for a case. It holds a few less drives than that Asus case you mentioned, but it has 120mm front intake and 120mm rear exhaust fans. It's roughly the same outside dimensions as well, just much better cooling.

Yes, I know I'm suggesting stuff I own, but I did my homework and selected what I felt were the best available options for a mATX system..

[GameSinewPCs]

Originally Posted by ratbuddy

I'd skip the Zalman. Ultima-90 is nice and small, but performs very close to the big dogs. Here's a few charts from anananandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling...spx?i=3068&p=4

The 9500 doesn't even come close..

Thermalright does indeed make great HSs/Fans.

[immersive]

The Ultima-90 looks great. Going by that bench, a Rexus NMB-MAT (Panaflo) 92mm Fan should be good with it. Thanks for that!

Can I fit 3 HDD's in the Silverstone TJ08 case? Do I need a conversion bracket or something to mount a HDD in the 3.5" or 5.2" external spot? I'll be running a main drive for system files: Raptor 150GB - second drive for storage: 750gb - third: 750gb for mirror backup of second.

If I go with that case, can you recommend a good 120mm fan that is quiet and efficient.

If the temps are to high I won't OC. I don't really have to.

[ratbuddy]

The case comes with nice and quiet 120mm fans already installed. I'll snap some pictures of my completed setup when I get home. I'm running it with 3 HDDs installed, although a slight mod to the front panel cover retaining system is necessary for the top HD, it can easily fit them. The only downside to the whole mess is you need to remove the HSF to swap HDDs. Not a big issue IMHO.

I'm running the Ultima-90 with a NMB-NAT myself, I think it's an M1A-BX or something, medium speed I believe. Can't hear a thing. The whole system would be darn near silent if it wasn't for the stupid 8800GT with the original cooler. That's gonna change soon though

[immersive]

I was thinking of going with the COOLER MASTER Centurion 541 because it is half the price and seems to still have decent cooling.

[ratbuddy]

I opted not to go with that one because it's 'upside down' in that the PCI slots end up near the top of the case and the CPU near the bottom. I wanted the CPU HSF to get plenty of airflow from sitting right under the big ole' 140mm PSU fan and right behind the 120mm rear fan. The other issue is HDD space - in an upside down case, depending which slot your video card is going in, the drive cage can interfere with the card - it looks pretty tight in the Centurion 541, doubt that thing could fit a large card in anything but the 'top' PCI slot (well, bottom slot in this case)

Just some things to consider..

[immersive]

I see. The SilverStone is what I'll go with then. As long as I can get 3 HDD's in there, I'll be good. I'd love to see the pics of your rig (outside & inside if possible) that way I'll know what this case looks like a little better.

[GreenJelly]

Last I knew, there was no Micro PSUs over 350 watts, but things change in a year.

I love the idea of the Micro, but building one is a pain in the ass. You might get a motherboard that doesn't work with the case, because a Hard Drive in the way. I got a VERY large Media center PC, and my Dominator memory prevents me from putting another Drive in. That case is suppose to be one of the biggest available.

Go with a company that makes them and buy the whole thing. I don't like Dell or compaq because they are so specific for one type of setup. Therefor I recommend the smaller local companies that are managed well, that use brand name parts, and that have all the stuff laying around to make sure everything fits and that you have a good working system.

Working on Micro PC's to solve issues is a HUGE problem. You are very likely to break something in them, unless you take apart the ENTIRE system. This is allot of work, and then you need replacement parts to swap out to check for which part is bad. The low power in these cases only add to the problems.

Spend the extra money on a pre-built system that can be upgraded because its not proprietary. I recommend JNCS, they have been great on the one computer I was smart enough to buy from them. Service is great too.

Some day you are going to find this machine too slow or something and will then want to use it as a HTPC. Thats a great Idea but the intel graphics chips cant handle Blue Ray Mpeg 4 standard, and your processor wont either. Theirfor you are currently stuck with AMD's newest G processor, which is getting rave reviews all over the place. The processors are not as fast, but they are cheaper, and they are becoming better. If they beat intel is up for grabs, but price/performance (when you do not count in Over Clocking) they are very competitive.

[ratbuddy]

Originally Posted by immersive

I see. The SilverStone is what I'll go with then. As long as I can get 3 HDD's in there, I'll be good. I'd love to see the pics of your rig (outside & inside if possible) that way I'll know what this case looks like a little better.

I'll break out the camera when I get home from work in about an hour.

[immersive]

Originally Posted by GreenJelly

Last I knew, there was no Micro PSUs over 350 watts, but things change in a year.

I love the idea of the Micro, but building one is a pain in the ass. You might get a motherboard that doesn't work with the case, because a Hard Drive in the way. I got a VERY large Media center PC, and my Dominator memory prevents me from putting another Drive in. That case is suppose to be one of the biggest available.

Go with a company that makes them and buy the whole thing. I don't like Dell or compaq because they are so specific for one type of setup. Therefor I recommend the smaller local companies that are managed well, that use brand name parts, and that have all the stuff laying around to make sure everything fits and that you have a good working system.

Working on Micro PC's to solve issues is a HUGE problem. You are very likely to break something in them, unless you take apart the ENTIRE system. This is allot of work, and then you need replacement parts to swap out to check for which part is bad. The low power in these cases only add to the problems.

Spend the extra money on a pre-built system that can be upgraded because its not proprietary. I recommend JNCS, they have been great on the one computer I was smart enough to buy from them. Service is great too.

Some day you are going to find this machine too slow or something and will then want to use it as a HTPC. Thats a great Idea but the intel graphics chips cant handle Blue Ray Mpeg 4 standard, and your processor wont either. Theirfor you are currently stuck with AMD's newest G processor, which is getting rave reviews all over the place. The processors are not as fast, but they are cheaper, and they are becoming better. If they beat intel is up for grabs, but price/performance (when you do not count in Over Clocking) they are very competitive.

So this system can't handle Blu-Ray HD video?
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB)
SAPPHIRE 100234L Radeon HD 3450 512MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready

[ratbuddy]

Originally Posted by GreenJelly

Last I knew, there was no Micro PSUs over 350 watts, but things change in a year.

I love the idea of the Micro, but building one is a pain in the ass. You might get a motherboard that doesn't work with the case, because a Hard Drive in the way. I got a VERY large Media center PC, and my Dominator memory prevents me from putting another Drive in. That case is suppose to be one of the biggest available.

Go with a company that makes them and buy the whole thing. I don't like Dell or compaq because they are so specific for one type of setup. Therefor I recommend the smaller local companies that are managed well, that use brand name parts, and that have all the stuff laying around to make sure everything fits and that you have a good working system.

Working on Micro PC's to solve issues is a HUGE problem. You are very likely to break something in them, unless you take apart the ENTIRE system. This is allot of work, and then you need replacement parts to swap out to check for which part is bad. The low power in these cases only add to the problems.

Spend the extra money on a pre-built system that can be upgraded because its not proprietary. I recommend JNCS, they have been great on the one computer I was smart enough to buy from them. Service is great too.

Some day you are going to find this machine too slow or something and will then want to use it as a HTPC. Thats a great Idea but the intel graphics chips cant handle Blue Ray Mpeg 4 standard, and your processor wont either. Theirfor you are currently stuck with AMD's newest G processor, which is getting rave reviews all over the place. The processors are not as fast, but they are cheaper, and they are becoming better. If they beat intel is up for grabs, but price/performance (when you do not count in Over Clocking) they are very competitive.

Err... The machine in my sig is mATX. If I had more money to burn it would be running a QX9650 which the mobo supports. I am replacing the memory with a 2x2GB kit that doesn't have such a tall heatsink as the Corsair DHX series stuff does, because it does rub on the drive cage, but that's an issue caused by nonstandard memory, not the system.. Most mATX cases take a full ATX PSU.

Working on the thing is simple as can be. Wire management might be a little tougher than one of those giant cases you can sleep in when the wife is angry, but there's plenty of room to work and I've never broken anything

edit: That system can handle bluray just fine. You might want a little stronger graphics card, the HD3850 is supposed to drop in price very soon..

edit again: Be careful with the memory selection. Stay away from any of the really tall heatsinked sticks if you are going mATX. Got a link to the Corsair stuff?

[immersive]

I kept the height in mind when selecting RAM. Heres a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184

The only thing that bothers me about that case is you can't add HDD's without removing the HSF, right? Also, to fit 3 HDD's I have to mod it. How hard is this mod and will the cover still be in place for that slot?

[ratbuddy]

That RAM will be great. Yes, you need to remove the HSF to add a drive. It's no biggie for me, since I won't be swapping drives THAT often, and the Ultima-90 is just held on by 2 screws. Easy as can be to take the thing in and out. You don't need to actually mod the drive bay cover to get a drive to fit, just remove it. It fits with 2 tabs that screw into the bay like a drive would. Just need to shorten the tabs or remove them and use tape or glue to hold the bay cover in place. I'm leaving mine off because I have 120mm plus a slot blower exhausting, plus the 140mm fan in the PSU, and just the single 120mm intake on the front. I can feel air moving over the hard drives with the cover off, so I'll probably just fabricate a small cover from a silver mesh or something.

I did take pictures, but photobucket seems to be down ATM so I can't post them.. I'll update when they are back up..

edit: OK here's the pictures for ya. They were taken as stills on my camcorder, I don't have an actual camera..

First up is the exterior views.. The combo drive is from my old emachine, I haven't found a nice brushed aluminum optical yet, still looking..





Civ3 disc is just for scale..



The wire management is temporary. The PATA cable is going to disappear as soon as I find a SATA optical I like the looks of. I'm also trying to find some right angle SATA cables in the right length to make things a bit neater.



Plenty of room around the intake fan, that video card is 9 inches long, plenty of room for even a GTX or whatnot in there. I'll clean up those fan connectors sitting in the bottom at some point, but they aren't really blocking airflow down there so I'm not stressing it. Note between the Ultima-90 and the video card is the blue thingy.. ZM-NBF47, passive northbridge cooler, worth about 12-15C over the stock one and fits great.



Clearance is a little tight between the HSF and the hard drive cables, some right angle SATA cables will fix that.



It's a work in progress, but so far I'm pretty happy with the way it's turned out..