Ways to lower CPU voltages on e8400?

First off, my apologies for the 2 posts that are similar. Edit isn't working for me for some weird reason and I felt like I need to be more clear and concise with what I am asking.

I am trying to OC my e8400 to 4GHz stable with voltages safe enough to run 24/7 for 3-5 years. Right now my e8400 is at 4005MHz @ 1.465v BIOS/1.37v Everest. MCH is 1.44 b/c I have 4 RAM sticks; all other voltages are stock and so far it is stable in Orthos for an average of 2 hours. Temps are 43C idle/50C load. I am not really comfortable with the voltages that high and since it is not completely stable I am extra worried.

My question.....Is there anything I can do to lower the CPU voltages and keep it stable @ 4GHz 24/7?

For instance, use only 4GB of RAM instead of 8GB?

or, reset the CPU?

or, apply a thinner/thicker layer of thermal paste?

OR ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS AT ALL. I have gone all the way through the Official e8400/e8500 OC posts and the majority of voltages for 4+ GHz is significantly less than what I have to use just to remain BARELY stable. I realize each chip is made differently and it could most certainly be due to that, but if there is anything I am missing or anything else I do/tweak/try AT ALL I am willing to listen.

For anyone with a abit IP35 mobo/e8400 post ALL of your voltages/BIOS settings for me please. That would help A LOT! Anyone else can post theirs as well. My rig is listed below..let me know if you guys need to know anything else in order to help. Thanks in advance.


My Rig:
abit IP35 Pro mobo
e8400 cpu
8GB DDR2 800 PC6400 Mushkin RAM
MSI 8800GT gpu
Zalman 9700 HSF
Cooler Master Cosmos case w/ 6 120mm fans
Cooler Master 750w psu
1TB Seagate Barracuda HDD
22" Acer WS Monitor

That's a really high voltage, most likely your board could use some fine tuning. Here is some settings that helped me out a bit attaining stable 500 fsb for 4ghz. To my knowledge the ram will not effect reliability unless your latencies are conflicting.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5504241

if uguru is showing you a reading of 1.37 thats not that high. the highest safe voltage you can run is 1.45v from intels whitepapers on the E8000 series.

Brettfavor said:

First off, my apologies for the 2 posts that are similar. Edit isn't working for me for some weird reason and I felt like I need to be more clear and concise with what I am asking.

I am trying to OC my e8400 to 4GHz stable with voltages safe enough to run 24/7 for 3-5 years. Right now my e8400 is at 4005MHz @ 1.465v BIOS/1.37v Everest. MCH is 1.44 b/c I have 4 RAM sticks; all other voltages are stock and so far it is stable in Orthos for an average of 2 hours. Temps are 43C idle/50C load. I am not really comfortable with the voltages that high and since it is not completely stable I am extra worried.

My question.....Is there anything I can do to lower the CPU voltages and keep it stable @ 4GHz 24/7?

For instance, use only 4GB of RAM instead of 8GB?

or, reset the CPU?

or, apply a thinner/thicker layer of thermal paste?

OR ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS AT ALL. I have gone all the way through the Official e8400/e8500 OC posts and the majority of voltages for 4+ GHz is significantly less than what I have to use just to remain BARELY stable. I realize each chip is made differently and it could most certainly be due to that, but if there is anything I am missing or anything else I do/tweak/try AT ALL I am willing to listen.

For anyone with a abit IP35 mobo/e8400 post ALL of your voltages/BIOS settings for me please. That would help A LOT! Anyone else can post theirs as well. My rig is listed below..let me know if you guys need to know anything else in order to help. Thanks in advance.


My Rig:
abit IP35 Pro mobo
e8400 cpu
8GB DDR2 800 PC6400 Mushkin RAM
MSI 8800GT gpu
Zalman 9700 HSF
Cooler Master Cosmos case w/ 6 120mm fans
Cooler Master 750w psu
1TB Seagate Barracuda HDD
22" Acer WS Monitor

Click to expand...

Your voltages are a little higher than average for that overclock but you're using air cooling so I would expect a little higher compared to that of water cooling. For reference though, my E8400 on the same Abit IP35 Pro with 8GB of memory will run 4.1GHz at 1.405v BIOS, and 4.0GHz at 1.365v BIOS. This is on water cooling and Orthos stable for over 10 hours. I'm only using 1.41v MCH for 4 dimms, anything less is unstable.

As mentioned though, although your voltages are a little higher than average, I wouldn't worry about it, you're well within safety.

Evilsizer said:

if uguru is showing you a reading of 1.37 thats not that high. the highest safe voltage you can run is 1.45v from intels whitepapers on the E8000 series.

Click to expand...

NO NO NO NO NO!

Intel makes NO claims that 1.45V is safe! Rather, they guarantee that any voltage beyond that could cause damage instantaneously. The voltage range for normal operations is 1.3625V MAX. Voltages between 1.3625 and 1.45V are a danger zone in which your chances of wrecking the CPU increase the closer you get to the high end. For someone who doesn't upgrade annually, this is not "safe."

People keep repeating this 1.45V nonsense without having read the the paragraph that accompanies the table in the Intel literature and it's starting to drive me a little nuts.

Documentation [pdf]

Intel said:

At conditions outside functional operation condition limits, but within absolute
maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be
expected. If a device is returned to conditions within functional operation limits after
having been subjected to conditions outside these limits, but within the absolute
maximum and minimum ratings, the device may be functional, but with its lifetime
degraded depending on exposure to conditions exceeding the functional operation
condition limits.

At conditions exceeding absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality
nor long-term reliability can be expected. Moreover, if a device is subjected to these
conditions for any length of time then, when returned to conditions within the
functional operating condition limits, it will either not function, or its reliability will be
severely degraded.

Click to expand...

ZircularLogic said:

NO NO NO NO NO!

Intel makes NO claims that 1.45V is safe! Rather, they guarantee that any voltage beyond that could cause damage instantaneously. The voltage range for normal operations is 1.3625V MAX. Voltages between 1.3625 and 1.45V are a danger zone in which your chances of wrecking the CPU increase the closer you get to the high end. For someone who doesn't upgrade annually, this is not "safe."

People keep repeating this 1.45V nonsense without having read the the paragraph that accompanies the table in the Intel literature and it's starting to drive me a little nuts.

Documentation [pdf]

Click to expand...

This

nice broad statement that covers intel. where does it say in that statement that using 1.45 max on the white papers is going to cause problems? as that statement also covers temps as well and using the intel stock hs. if we replace said hs with something better to lower temps then higher clocks and voltage can be used. the only cpus to have been reported to die are ones that were using way over 1.45v. i havent seen one person say "i was using 1.45v 24/7 and my cpu just died". then agian its a been while since i actually looked. seeing as i have other interests atm,that have taken over.

here in as you pointed out though is "normal" operation, which means stock speeds/voltages. who is running stock speeds agian here in this thread? as i see it the OP is running oced so the text you quote applies how? as that text then applies that even with its other max voltage 1.3625. that anything high clock speed wise will hurt the cpu. Which is it your tring to get after then, someone running a cpu in "normal" operation or one that is ocing?

ZircularLogic said:

NO NO NO NO NO!

Intel makes NO claims that 1.45V is safe! Rather, they guarantee that any voltage beyond that could cause damage instantaneously. The voltage range for normal operations is 1.3625V MAX. Voltages between 1.3625 and 1.45V are a danger zone in which your chances of wrecking the CPU increase the closer you get to the high end. For someone who doesn't upgrade annually, this is not "safe."

People keep repeating this 1.45V nonsense without having read the the paragraph that accompanies the table in the Intel literature and it's starting to drive me a little nuts.

Documentation [pdf]

Click to expand...

Does Intel also say not to run a Q6600 G0 at 3.8GHz 1.53V 24/7 folding and number crunchin for the last 6 months? (oops I'm doomed!)

/sarcasm

Many of you have good points, but the real thing that is difficult to determine is that most people that are on the OC Forums would be considered pc euthuaists, meaning that most of us are on a 18-24 month or less upgrade cycle. Intel spec whitepaper assumes people will need to use the cpu for many years(5+ years)....this is NONE of us.

How many of us pushing our E8400's will be using one 24 months from now.

Answer...very few..we will be discussing oc'ing the latest Oct-Core Nehalem CPUs.

So its very difficult to tell how long an over volted E8400 will last we really only need it to run for say 36months tops. This give us the luxury to exceed Intels stated voltage limits for a "short" period of time


Personnaly I perfer not to exceed 1.40 for 24.7 operation. My current rig has being running for 24.7 at 1.37vc. Since I set it up.

Just my .02 cents

see there are personal preferences for running voltages thru cpus. then there is intel speced max voltage, then tested max voltages but US the ocers. those on extreme cooling push that voltage even more, with sometimes cpu killing results. as we have poitned out with 45nm release we dont know the true max we can run for 24/7 when oced. many have there for suggested what is in intels own white papers for voltage. some have gone over that with no ill effects, as with 65nm cpus. both manufacturing processes use different matieral to make the dies. since they are using a new and "untested" by US matieral it is better to play it safe with 1.45v. till we can get long term numbers on voltage to cpus dieing at what voltage.

If you guys want to ignore the warnings in the documentation that is specific to E8xxx series CPUs (not "generic intel") and instead cherry pick numbers from whatever non-official documentation that suits your own version of reality, knock yourselves out. But spreading said FUD and giving newcomers the impression that they aren't taking a serious risk without presenting the whole story is irresponsible. Given all of the information, some might not find that risk to be acceptable.

FYI, "white papers" are hypothetical documents written by engineers who wish to explore possibilities beyond what has been verified. They are a starting point. Work as an engineer in any industry and you will learn very quickly that not all of these hypotheses (often presented in white papers) turn out to be true. Some fail completely.

A 65nm Q6600 is not a 45nm E8400. Different core, different materials, different characteristics and limitations. A single person's experience with one is irrelevant regarding what is possible with the other. Sarcasm would not be necessary if that were not the case.

And finally, a few people who know what it takes to degrade an E8400. Some of them thought the same thing that some people here seem think, and suffered the consequences:
Thread

**ADDITION**
Again, if people want to push the limits and accept the risks, that's perfectly fine. I only object to the presentation of supposition as fact.

wait why are you now repeating things i just said? i thought you just said i was wrong?

his tag is Circular Logic (I couldnt resist)

Becasue this part of what you're saying is dead wrong [emphasis added by me]:

Evilsizer said:

since they are using a new and "untested" by US matieral it is better to play it safe with 1.45v.

Click to expand...

Would this be easier for you if I mindlessly disagreed with everything you said as blanket statement? Am I making it too hard for you?

Brettfavor said:

I am trying to OC my e8400 to 4GHz stable with voltages safe enough to run 24/7 for 3-5 years...
My question.....Is there anything I can do to lower the CPU voltages and keep it stable @ 4GHz 24/7?
...ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS AT ALL.

Click to expand...

Here's how I approached it and you have nothing to lose by trying.
-Install just 4GB of RAM (after you're finished you can reinstall the other sticks and see what happens).

-Go back to STOCK speed (9 x 333).

-Make sure your RAM voltage is set to manufacturer's spec (my Gigabyte board defaults to 1.8v but the G.Skills want 2.0-2.1v), set it manually in BIOS.

-Manually set the RAM timings to manufacturer's spec as well.

-Now, LOWER the vCore from stock (1.225v) to whatever your board's next step might be (all the other voltage options were left on "Auto", mainly because I wasn't sure what half of them were...).

-Run Orthos to confirm stability (I was using 4hrs. as a completely arbitrary test period).

-Keep lowering the vCore till you fail Orthos, then bump back to the last good setting.

-Once you find your lowest stable voltage setting, begin to up the clock speed.

I was surprised how far I could go before I even raised the voltage back up to stock.
Spent several days trying different configs (never going above 1.3v...again, a completely arbitrary cap I had decided upon...) before settling on 8 x 500 at 1.275v.


Obviously, different chips will react in different ways but you might get lucky and find that you don't need lots of juice to get where you're going.
Besides, other than time, you're not losing anything and running lower voltages shouldn't hurt either.

I spent a lot of time playing with variations of 9 x X and was hitting a wall around 450+ FSB.
Upping the voltage worked but overode my 1.3v cap so I went to the lower multiplier and higher FSB, which I expected to crap out immediately but didn't.

If you decide to jump right to the 8 x 500 setting (which, if I were in your shoes, I would almost certainly do...), make sure you have your RAM/FSB ratio set so the RAM is NOT overclocked.
If you achieve stability you can go back later and see how far you can push the Mushkins but for now you're more interested in seeing what the CPU can handle.

Good luck.

Well i also went for the 4ghz oc on my e8400. Passed the 30 minute orthos mark at 1.328 vcore. So with all this disagreement and debate on the vcore, and since I am under the intel marked 1.36 vore safe max, I could be safe correct?

You all got me paranoid right now

Still running orthos so dont think i think 30 minutes is good enough. Just had a fun run. 3.8ghz was 1.8 vcore stable. So far to get a stable 4Ghz i had to up it to 3.5vcore in bios with a cpu-z showing a drop to 3.28. I was having issues so I upped it on this last run .010 instead of the normal .005 on my x38-ds4, and added .1 to the mch. If things goes well I will try and down the vcore a notch and do another test, and then another. Unsure if the mch is helping or not since this last attempt was alittle more frustration based.

I would have made another thread, and not trying to hijack this one, but since it seems right on the dot with my own current issue, I decided to make a reply as well.

CreasianDevaili said:

Well i also went for the 4ghz oc on my e8400. Passed the 30 minute orthos mark at 1.328 vcore. So with all this disagreement and debate on the vcore, and since I am under the intel marked 1.36 vore safe max, I could be safe correct?

You all got me paranoid right now

Still running orthos so dont think i think 30 minutes is good enough. Just had a fun run. 3.8ghz was 1.8 vcore stable. So far to get a stable 4Ghz i had to up it to 3.5vcore in bios with a cpu-z showing a drop to 3.28. I was having issues so I upped it on this last run .010 instead of the normal .005 on my x38-ds4, and added .1 to the mch. If things goes well I will try and down the vcore a notch and do another test, and then another. Unsure if the mch is helping or not since this last attempt was alittle more frustration based.

I would have made another thread, and not trying to hijack this one, but since it seems right on the dot with my own current issue, I decided to make a reply as well.

Click to expand...

I really hope those vcore settings are typos!

Cresain,

Yes you are okay/safe at <1.3625

Agreed, safe.

jason4207 said:

I really hope those vcore settings are typos!

Click to expand...

God.. remind me not to post when I am tired as hell..

I meant 3.8Ghz was 4 hours stable, didnt go past it, at 1.28vcore.

I had put 1.35v in bios for the 4ghz run, and it lasted almost 3 hours. Cpu-z on load showed 1.328v on the 4ghz run. I am not seeing a vdrop at all when i load windows on my x38-ds4, but the vdroop is as i put it.. 1.35v to 1.328.

This was after going in small upperage. windows always loaded and never crashed. However orthos would error within seconds, then 30 seconds, then 10 minutes, then 29 minutes, and finally just under 3 hours.

Very sorry.. i was staying up very late to watch temps and to see how it was going to go. So i was typoing like a 2 fingered monkey.

I was going to try it all again tonight, and see if giving .1 to mch and fsb will help. I am 24h stable orthos at 3.6Ghz and 1.23vore bios.