Requesting advice on new water cooling rig

Hi. I'm planning on buying a new rig in august. My current rig is cooled by the zalman reserator v2 (which blows horribly). At the time of purchase I did not know how much kits like it suck in comparison to piece-by-piece made water cooling setups.

So this time I want to get some advice from you guys to make sure I don't make any mistakes I end up regretting for a year or two dealing with high temps.

I plan on getting a rig something like this:

nVidia nForce 780i mobo (dunno which manufacturer yet)
2x nVidia 9800 GTX (or some high end 9 series card) in SLi
Intel Core 2 QX9700 (or something around that area)
some ram (lol)
Probably some raptor hard drives
And I plan on putting it all in a custom mountainmods.com ufo case.

Okay so with my current rig I'm super ****ed because it overheats constantly, and I can't overclock it at all since it's already overheating at factory settings.... so I want to really go to the max and have a really good water cooling setup that is going to prevent me from having any future overheating issues and will allow me to overclock a fair amount.

So here is what I'm thinking so far. I'll probably get my parts from Danger Den since I've heard good things about them.

I'm thinking I'll get 3 of the Black Ice GTX 360 radiators, and have them setup so that one is before the processor, one is before one video card, and one is before another video card.

I'm wondering what the difference is tho between the Black Ice GTX radiators and the Thermochill radiators? Which is better? If one or the other can't be defined as better, what are their different purposes and pros/cons?

I'm also wondering what the best water block is for the type of processor I'm going for (quad core core 2 socket 775 intel processor). I remember reading some stuff a while back about some waterblock that was third party (not from danger den) that was way better than the danger den stuff, which is why I'm asking.

So I plan on using a T-line, as it looks really convenient and easy to do. Are there any disadvantages to this or any reasons I shouldn't do this? On a related note, do I need a reservoir(s)? I never understood what the purpose of reservoirs is...

Also, I don't know what fans to use on the radiators. I plan of course to put one on the front and one on the back of each fan port on the radiators. Does anyone have any recommendations for efficient 120mm fans? By efficient I mean low sound/high airflow ratio.

Also, I need to know about pumps. I remember seeing a thread a while back about someone making a similarly over-the-top water cooling rig, and he said he was getting 2 water pumps. Does having 2 in series like that work? Do I need 2 (or even more?)? What pump is the best for this kind of rig/most powerful (is most powerful even what I want?)?

I'll probably go with half inch tubing unless someone has something against that.

Also I'll probably go with the 9800GTX waterblock danger den posted on the news on their site, unless someone has any suggestions for a better one?

Sorry there are so many questions guys, I really don't want to make a mistake on this build. I really appreciate any recommendations and help you guys give, thanks a lot

EDIT: I haven't been looking at recent hardware enough... I'll probably actually be going with 2 9800GX2's rather than GTX's, and the respective danger den waterblock unless again someone knows of a better one

go with thermochill rads, there the best rads out at the moment. but they are expensive.

for water block go with the D-Tek Fusion either the first one or second version (V2)

for pumps go with the Swiftech MCP655, if you really going to go with 3 rads, alone will cost $350 with thermochill rads then i would go with 3 pumps, 1 for each rad.

but i think i would just go with 2 loops. or 2 big loops and 1 small.

i would put the cpu ony 1 loop alone. then put the 2 980GX2's on a second loop.

and if you want chipset cooling on a third (a 240mm rad should be fine)

Yate loons are really good fans for most purposes. i've just ordered 6 high speed (88CFM, 40DB) fans for my swiftech MCR320 rad.


and nice build, but your wasting money on 2 9800GX2's, i would grab 3 9800GTX's, they seem to be better as far as i know.


as for the T line its neater looking but a bit longer/ harder to bleed the air out of. i personally went with a T line.

Spawn-Inc said:

go with thermochill rads, there the best rads out at the moment. but they are expensive.

for water block go with the D-Tek Fusion either the first one or second version (V2)

for pumps go with the Swiftech MCP655, if you really going to go with 3 rads, alone will cost $350 with thermochill rads then i would go with 3 pumps, 1 for each rad.

but i think i would just go with 2 loops. or 2 big loops and 1 small.

i would put the cpu ony 1 loop alone. then put the 2 980GX2's on a second loop.

and if you want chipset cooling on a third (a 240mm rad should be fine)

Yate loons are really good fans for most purposes. i've just ordered 6 high speed (88CFM, 40DB) fans for my swiftech MCR320 rad.


and nice build, but your wasting money on 2 9800GX2's, i would grab 3 9800GTX's, they seem to be better as far as i know.


as for the T line its neater looking but a bit longer/ harder to bleed the air out of. i personally went with a T line.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Okay so I googled around and the fuzion looks really good. Do you know what the difference is between the fuzion and the fuzion v2? On their website they don't say flat out that v2 is better or anything, and they cost the same amount. I'm a bit confused to be honest.

Wow I didn't expect to need 3 pumps, that's intense. Makes sense I guess tho, since the average user is just using one radiator and that's what the pumps are designed to pump through. Is the MCP655 better than danger den's D5?

What's the advantage of going in multiple loops? Why is it any different from just having it in one big loop? Also, if I have it in multiple loops I'll need multiple T lines right?

And damn I had forgotten about the chipset, I'll need to incorporate that as well.

I looked on tiger direct and in the video showing a 9800GX2, the SSC (i think that was it) version, for super super clocked or something like that, they compared FPS rates to the 9800GTX and it was blowing the GTX away.

Wow I just added up all the major things (including fans), not including stuff liike the T lines and the tubing, and my price is all the way up to $1335 just for the water cooling of my box

3xThermochill PA120.3 ($135) = $405
1xThermochill PA120.2 ($120) = $120
3xSwiftech MCP655 Pump ($80) = $240
20x (omfg)Yate Loon High Speed fan ($4) = $80
1xD-Tek Fuzion v2 CPU Block ($70) = $70
2xDanger Den 9800GX2 Water Block ($210) = $420

Like WOW I am going to be soooo broke after I make this box...

The Fuzion v2 had a redesign...it performs slightly better than the first version...some degrees I think
If you have the choise go with the v2.
And yes for multiple loops you need multiple T-Lines for bleeding
but 20 fans?
what the hell you will need that for...just adding fans to your PC doesnt always result in better temps
and I also think that 3 rads with 3 pumps are overkill.
So two loops...one for cpu/nb and one for the two gfx would be my advice.
And I think two smaller loops are easier to bleed but the choice comes down to what would be best for your tubing.

Stocki said:

The Fuzion v2 had a redesign...it performs slightly better than the first version...some degrees I think
If you have the choise go with the v2.
And yes for multiple loops you need multiple T-Lines for bleeding
but 20 fans?
what the hell you will need that for...just adding fans to your PC doesnt always result in better temps
and I also think that 3 rads with 3 pumps are overkill.
So two loops...one for cpu/nb and one for the two gfx would be my advice.
And I think two smaller loops are easier to bleed but the choice comes down to what would be best for your tubing.

Click to expand...

The 20 (corrected, 22 bad math on my part lol) fans are for the radiators.... in push/pull fashion. 3 120.3s plus 1 120.2 = 11 fan ports being used. With one fan on either side of the radiator, that's 22 fans.

Can't have radiators without fans....

Also, while it might be overkill, can you have too many pumps? Like if you have a lot is it going to cause problems in the loop or something? I feel like it's better safe than sorry, I want to make sure my water's circulating fast enough.

-orb- said:

Like WOW I am going to be soooo broke after I make this box...

Click to expand...

LOL, you're going to be a tad more than broke my friend, trust me, I know first hand.

Go take a look here

That should give you a pretty good idea of what you're getting into with that large of a build. Good luck, and most of all Have Fun!!

GTFouts said:

LOL, you're going to be a tad more than broke my friend, trust me, I know first hand.

Go take a look here

That should give you a pretty good idea of what you're getting into with that large of a build. Good luck, and most of all Have Fun!!

Click to expand...

Wow that's an awesome rig dude! How does it run?

Cold, I hope?

So maybe you could tell me why you made certain decisions so I can understand as well?

-Why do you have the reservoirs. I still don't understand the point of the reservoir.

-Why do it in 4 separate loops instead of say 2 separate loops? Seeing that you did it in 4 makes me think maybe I should as well...

-You went with the Danger Den D5 fixed speed pump, rather than the Swiftech MCP655. Why? What's the difference between the two? After using the D5 for this project, do you still recommend it?

-It looks like you only had fans on the pulling side of your radiators. Do you get enough airflow like this?

-What's that black thing on the back of your radiators before the fans? Is that a shroud (I've heard people mention shrouds before)? If so, what is the purpose of the shroud?

-orb- said:

Wow that's an awesome rig dude! How does it run?

Click to expand...

It runs ok for now. Not happy with the Asus Maximus, but I have a Blackops sitting here waiting to be put in. Just need to find the time.

-orb- said:

-Why do you have the reservoirs. I still don't understand the point of the reservoir.

Click to expand...

I use res's for 2 main reasons. Ease of filling the loop and automatic instant bleeding. Plus I had the space for them, which helps alot. I only have to turn my pump on momentarily once or maybe twice, then I have more than enough water for a constant feed to the pump and initial fillup. Let it run for 2 or 3 min or so and its bled about 95%, with a little tilting here and there. It can then finish bleeding the tiny stuff while I am using it and I dont have to worry about water levels at all. I guess a 3rd reason would be, I just prefer alot of water available for the loop, gives me peace of mind knowing that the pump has excellent feed...shrug...total personal preference.

-orb- said:

-Why do it in 4 separate loops instead of say 2 separate loops? Seeing that you did it in 4 makes me think maybe I should as well...

Click to expand...

I'm not going to tell you how many loops to put in your system. That is totally up to you. I did it for a number of reasons, the main being that I wanted a case/water system that I would NEVER have to upgrade no matter what I changed things too or what the future brings, in my lifetime anyway. I think I accomplished that to my satisfaction, and thats all that matters now, doesn't it? (at least I hope I did) Plus, I didn't like the fact that when I had 2 of the 3780's on 1 loop, my water would get hotter than I liked. My res, in my old system, was warm to the touch and I didnt care for that, and that was with 3870's, now I have 3870X2's, Twice the GPU heat, sortof. So I split everything up and again, had the room for it also.

-orb- said:

-You went with the Danger Den D5 fixed speed pump, rather than the Swiftech MCP655. Why? What's the difference between the two? After using the D5 for this project, do you still recommend it?

Click to expand...

Basically they are both the same pump but a different sticker. I use the constant speed because you end up turning the varible speed to max anyway, so why waste the extra money on something you wont use. In actuality, I have 2 D5's and 2 655's. Makes no difference.

-orb- said:

-It looks like you only had fans on the pulling side of your radiators. Do you get enough airflow like this?

Click to expand...

You dont really need a push-pull setup IMHO. I have had both setups and it doesnt make a difference temp wise, not really. Too many fans = too much noise. So I went with very high CFM fans at low speed so they stay quiet and push alot of air turned down. Dont really need then maxed unless you gaming hard anyway, so they cool just fine. I never turn them up and it stays cooler than an air system, even when I have everything cranking hot. I will say this, it WILL heat the room up a bit when gaming heavy. Ambient room temp is alot more important to a cool system than most realize.

-orb- said:

-What's that black thing on the back of your radiators before the fans? Is that a shroud (I've heard people mention shrouds before)? If so, what is the purpose of the shroud?

Click to expand...

Yes, those are shrouds. Their main design is for proper air flow, but I used them for 1 reason only, so I could mount my fans to the shroud and use the grills that I have because of the size difference of the screws I use for each. Its the Only reason. When you use the thermochill rads, you have very LITTLE room for screws to stick thru the rad mounting area before the screw will ruin a water jacket and you brand new radiator. Its a design flaw IMHO. The fan screw holes should not be right in front of a water jacket, they should actually be in the middle of the cooling fins so they qwouldnt hurt the radiator if they were a bit long, BUT, they are not, so, I Know that first hand I do!!! Be very careful what you do there.

Push/pull works very well as long as you pick the right fans. I have 6 high static-pressure (9-blade), 54CFM 120MM fans on my rad and the combination almost doubles the amount of air whistling through my rad without doubling the noise. The configuration wasn't cheap, as fans go, but it works well, IMO.

Hmmm

I was at first hoping I'd find another suitable fan that everyone recommends, since the yate loon is so bland to look at (plain black :\ I'd so much rather have like clear blue acrylic fans with LEDs... they look so much nicer), but I had started reading everywhere that everyone uses yate loons and they're practically the standard :\

Alright I understand the purpose of the radiators now, that makes sense. I'll probably go for radiators so I don't have to deal with the pain in the *** bleeding times.

If you think having 4 loops helps the cooling (as you referred to the process as making your rig more future proof), then I'll definitely do that. It's barely more money to go for 4 loops rather than 2.

I had one more question I had forgotten to ask about your rig, GTFouts: I don't see any intake fans on the entire box. Do you have any and I'm not seeing them, or do you really not have any intake fans? If you don't, doesn't that put the radiator fans under stress and not allow them to achieve proper airflow since they're pulling on air that isn't coming from anywhere?

Man I'm getting really excited about this rig, I can't wait.

See imho using more than 2x 12vdc pumps is a waste. If you're dead set on using multiple pumps, why use 12v ones? If you really wanna push some water thru those loops/rads, then just go with 1 single Iwaki Pump .

A single iwaki pump will push enough water thru several rads and blocks with pressure/head to spare.

-orb- said:

Hmmm

I was at first hoping I'd find another suitable fan that everyone recommends, since the yate loon is so bland to look at (plain black :\ I'd so much rather have like clear blue acrylic fans with LEDs... they look so much nicer), but I had started reading everywhere that everyone uses yate loons and they're practically the standard :\

Click to expand...

One of the more entertaining aspects of maintaining a custom computer is that you can mix and match parts to your liking. In short, don't be timid about making your own standard.

Perseus said:

One of the more entertaining aspects of maintaining a custom computer is that you can mix and match parts to your liking. In short, don't be timid about making your own standard.

Click to expand...

Haha, I wouldn't be except that in my last two rigs very soon after i built each one (the two rigs were a year apart btw) I learned about all the mistakes I made.

Like getting the ****ty water cooling kit I have now.

As for the pumps, If I'm going with 4 separate loops I can't exactly have only one pump...

3 was a chunk overkill, how did you decide on 4? and what are you putting in the loops?

i think making a 'rad box" (a remote box with all the rads in them) and using 1 or 2 of those Iwaki Pumps would do the trick for your cooling needs.

put the cpu and chipset(s) on 1 triple rad and video cards on the other triple rad.

-orb- said:

I had one more question I had forgotten to ask about your rig, GTFouts: I don't see any intake fans on the entire box. Do you have any and I'm not seeing them, or do you really not have any intake fans? If you don't, doesn't that put the radiator fans under stress and not allow them to achieve proper airflow since they're pulling on air that isn't coming from anywhere?

Click to expand...

You are mis-understanding my fan config. Those 11 radiator fans are pulling air from outside and pushing it across the rad's, so I have 11 intake fans and 1 exhaust fan. This is something I have to fix when I change MB's. Right now I leave one of the sides off so all the positive air pressure inside has somewhere to go, which gives me somewhat of air flow inside, but its nowhere near proper for cooling the things inside that need a little air flow. I really did not want to put fans in my UV blue side panels, but I have decided that I have too if I want to install all 3 sides. Now I have to decide where I am going to put them so I get air flowing across the things I want it to flow across.

You need to think hard and long about how many loops you really want to have. It costs a bit more than you realize at first per loop. On the average of about 300-400 per loop by the time you get everything you need, the way I have mine set up that is. Understand that mine is actualy a serious overkill setup, for components nowadays. 2 loops will do you just fine in truth, especially using PA120.3 rads. Not trying to talk you out of your vision, that decision is yours to make, just being realistic.

One of the main reason I went with 4 loops, besides being future proof, was skulltrail. Right now I have 1 loop for each component I am cooling with water, the CPU, NB, GPU1, GPU2. Overkill is an understatement, but not when considering skulltrail. 2 cpu's and 4 video cards would need a setup like mine to keep cool for serious oc'ing IMHO, so that influenced alot of my decisions. Please keep in mind that the average OC setup doesnt need anything near what I have to operate well within good temps. In the end you need to do what YOU want to do and end up with a setup that makes YOU happy. You can end up with a killer system for 1000's less than what I spent that will last you for many years.

I suppose, but I'm sick and tired of my computer overheating.

What I REALLY don't want to happen is I spend like 1000 on the rig for 2 loops, and then I find that my CPU is hotter than I want it, or I can't overclock as much as I want due to the heat. Then I'd be ****ed. You can't really add loops, the whole case layout has to be thought out beforehand.

Man I was reading through your thread... 8 months? Is that freakin serious? I don't think I could handle another 8 months on this PC. I can't believe it took them that long to make you your case...

And Spawn, I really don't want to go with an external water cooling system just because of the fact that right now my kit is external, and traveling anywhere BLOWS.

When I switch apartments here at college, or I go home for an extended vacation, or go to a LAN.... it's such a ***** because you effectively NEED to have 2 people to carry them both at the same time since they're connected.

GTFouts I really like the compression fittings, I'll definitely be using those in my setup. I was really wondering about how I was going to go through and test all of it for leaks, and having compression fittings will for sure make me feel more at ease.

I really also like the setup you have of having kind of like a reverse T line at the bottom of the case to empty the lines really easily. Do you have links to the parts (The valves or whatever) that you used to accomplish this?

The more I learn about your rig the more I learn mine is going to be extremely similar

What is skulltrail (lol)?

Can you link me to the shroud you used? I really don't want to overtighten my screws and **** up my radiators...

You said you ordered new non-leakable reservoirs but you didn't say what kind they were. Can I have a link or a name?

Though to be honest I would REALLY like to find an acrylic res that won't leak... I want to see the pretty liquid O_O

One thing I'm wondering about the mountain mods case is where they put the motherboard. I've only ever built normal midsize towers before. Is it up against one of the sides? Is it somehow like floating right in the middle or something?

It's really important that I know exactly how they layout the case so when I design where everything is going to go I actually know it will be like that.

I wish I had like a video of you going up to your case showing all the sides and going inside and showing everything... it's really hard to get a feel for how it's laid out just from pictures. I mean I'm still wondering where they're going to have the hard drives, where the DVD drives go, where the floppy drive goes, if it comes with a power/reset button, and what the hell a motherboard brace is that they have as an option on the UFO cases.

After reading some of your thread I've decided I'll probably go with the 24" height like you did, but go with the 22" depth as you said you would have if you could redo it. By the way, is this 22" in just one dimension (so 18x22x24) or is it in both (22x22x24)?

Where did you get those wheels/how did you install them? Did they come with the case?

Can you explain in more detail exactly what you did with the reservoirs for the filling process? You said you like drilled a hole in the top or something (tho the bottom one wtf?)... I don't understand really what you did.

Sorry for asking you so many questions and bothering you so much I really want to plan this out as much as possible and know that when I finally do it and it arrives, I won't be surprised and be like "oh **** THIS is how it works? Now I'm ****ed"

-orb- said:

Hmmm

I was at first hoping I'd find another suitable fan that everyone recommends, since the yate loon is so bland to look at (plain black :\ I'd so much rather have like clear blue acrylic fans with LEDs... they look so much nicer), but I had started reading everywhere that everyone uses yate loons and they're practically the standard :\

Alright I understand the purpose of the radiators now, that makes sense. I'll probably go for radiators so I don't have to deal with the pain in the *** bleeding times.

If you think having 4 loops helps the cooling (as you referred to the process as making your rig more future proof), then I'll definitely do that. It's barely more money to go for 4 loops rather than 2.

I had one more question I had forgotten to ask about your rig, GTFouts: I don't see any intake fans on the entire box. Do you have any and I'm not seeing them, or do you really not have any intake fans? If you don't, doesn't that put the radiator fans under stress and not allow them to achieve proper airflow since they're pulling on air that isn't coming from anywhere?

Man I'm getting really excited about this rig, I can't wait.

Click to expand...

Why don't you get the clear blue LED Yates?
http://www.petrastechshop.com/120x25mmfans.html
They kept my TRUE nice and cool.

You'll LOVE compression fittings. As long as you're cafeful with the threaded end, and push your tubing tight on the barb, they're idiot-proof. IMO, orb, you should try to keep it simple for your first go into custom water. 2 rads, 1 for your video cards the other for your CPU. 2-pumps, one for each loop. If you pop for a MM case make sure that it's pre-drilled for type of rads you want. They have a newer case called the Ascension that allows for 2 120'3 rads to be mounted bleed screw up (useful if the rads you select have them). Other that this, do some hard reading before whipping out your credit card, and try hard to select good quality parts and you'll be fine.

And no, overheating won't be an issue. I was able to compute with an ambient of 106F using water once, playing Republic Commando until the AC repair guy showed up.

Okay wait I found the universal nozzle koolance things you used and I looked at the closeup picture of your pumps area, and I see how you set it up (very nice, I hadn't realized using the universal nozzles you could just use that instead of using a T connector... 2 birds with one stone). However, on frozencpu (where I found the universal nozzles) I did not see the fillport, so I checked koolance's website. The only one I found says 3/8". How did you use one of these with your 1/2" tubing?

Also I assume since I don't see any other kind of valve that the fillports are water tight and don't leak?

One other thing: Would it make it easier to have the filling situation (since you said you had to drill holes in your res's or whatever) to just have a T Line AND a reservoir? that way you could just fill it all the way from the get go with the T Line used for filling?

Oh yeah one last thing: When you talk about the bitspower fittings you mention an adapter that must be used... what is the adapter for, how is it implemented, and when must it be used?

baditude_df said:

Why don't you get the clear blue LED Yates?
http://www.petrastechshop.com/120x25mmfans.html
They kept my TRUE nice and cool.

Click to expand...

The clear yate loons only come in low speed setting. THe non-clear high speed yate loons are 88 CFM with 40 dBA. The clear ones are only 47CFM with 28dBA. I DO plan on getting fan controllers so if they are too loud I can always turn them down. Not so with the low speed fans.

I found a fan I think I'll use: The thermaltake thunderblade. http://www.xoxide.com/thunderblade4.html

78 CFM (close to the high speed yate loon), for only 21dBA (like WOW! Less than the low speed yate loon for almost as much CFM as the high speed!)

Perseus said:

You'll LOVE compression fittings. As long as you're cafeful with the threaded end, and push your tubing tight on the barb, they're idiot-proof. IMO, orb, you should try to keep it simple for your first go into custom water. 2 rads, 1 for your video cards the other for your CPU. 2-pumps, one for each loop. If you pop for a MM case make sure that it's pre-drilled for type of rads you want. They have a newer case called the Ascension that allows for 2 120'3 rads to be mounted bleed screw up (useful if the rads you select have them). Other that this, do some hard reading before whipping out your credit card, and try hard to select good quality parts and you'll be fine.

Click to expand...

TBH I'm sick and tired of having a new case and rig every time I build a computer. Sure, it's fun, but it's really expensive. Rather than 1 or 2 years down the road thinking to myself "you know I could easily go higher end with my water cooling, and then I'd be able to overclock more..." I'd rather blow the cooling out of the water so-to-speak and get it all over with with an extremely intense rig.

I don't think being a beginner to custom rigs will be affected by whether I use 2 radiators or 4. Having to set up the radiator is a task I'll learn to do, and having to do it 2 times or 4 times is not going to make a difference to my inexperience.

As for things like having to drill holes if I need to, that's really not a big deal. I personally don't have any power tools but my brother does, and he's really into building stuff. I would ask him to just help me build the case on our own but we don't have a metal shop, and I don't like wood cases. I suppose building the entire thing out of acrylic would be possible, but isn't that kind of flimsy?

Yeah I'm probably going to get it custom from MM rather than the acsension, that way I can get the extra depth to give me more room (just like GTF did) for my stuff.

As for choosing good quality parts, that's why I post here on OCF