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Old 11-14-08, 07:37 AM Thread Starter   #1
AngelfireUk83
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AMD Are Getting Better Overall


If you've been reading over the last 2 days on news on AMD you'll have to ask how much stuff left is there to announce with confirmation of Shanghi (see current thread for news http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=584699).

AMD have plans to release 7 new cores and 4 new platforms http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-amd-platforms and now there's news of AMD putting STREAM everwhere (don't know what that is until I read this) http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...eam-everywhere

And finally AMD have been wining marketshare in the Graphics market http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...rket-share-amd it's about time things started looking up I am on the wait till January for a Shanghi now plus saving more means I can get a nice motherboard too. What was once describes as a falling company a year ago things are different and they've done a great turn around.

I am just hoping the benches to Shanghi and there new chips and platforms are good enough to confirm there moving up also there's no late launch in fact in front of shedule so there's a bonus.

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Old 11-14-08, 08:15 AM   #2
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well i've read that the shanghi is great for Virtualization. that should be good news I hope for AMD. I am pushing my boss for funds to fillout our blade chassis as I move most of our servers to the virtual world. and it is the same for alot of other companies. I also hope they dont stick to their current graphics adapters too long. they need to keep pumping out the technology to stay ahead.

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Old 11-14-08, 08:31 AM   #3
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Hate to be OT, but what are the main benefits of vitualization?

As I can see it if you use one OS and applications for that one OS there is no need for virtualization on desktop.

Is it much different for servers? Like can multiple users have multiple OSes with multiple applications on a server? I thought this was done on the client side..


Back on topic...

Now all AMD needs (at least on the graphics side) is more Linux CCC features and better OpenGL performance. If they can roll that all out in the 8.12 driver

package I will be as happy as a fat kid with chocolate cake.

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Old 11-14-08, 01:21 PM   #4
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The big pull toward virtualization for our company at least is the ability to:
1) Consolidate multiple machines into one server. This lets us focus on one machine's storage subsystem's capacity and reliability, get rid of extra hardare, use less power, manage more easily, etc.
2) Virtualize network shared resources to where network shares really just go over loopback instead of across the network. This gets rid of temporary connectivity problems and latency issues.
3) Eliminate many sources for downtime via hardware failure. Outside of the VM host, there is no hardware to service or fail. Everything is virtual.
4) Decrease licensing costs. Windows Server Enterprise allows you to use up to five copies of itself per copy as the OS in virtual machines. Datacenter edition allows for unlimited. Buy one copy and have 30 VMs if you so choose...legally.

Essentially, we get more for less. It's faster, it's easier to maintain, it's cheaper, and it is more reliable.

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Old 11-14-08, 01:32 PM   #5
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Cool!

Consolidation is the main reason for getting one 4x board running at 350watts vs two 2x rigs pulling 250watts a-piece.

Check out the Conesus (a lake) for the netbook/mini lappy.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...10474&Itemid=1

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Old 11-14-08, 03:54 PM   #6
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I'm super excited for this -

Quote:
Also in 2011, AMD plans to introduce another platform with the codename Sabine. Sabine will use what AMD calls an accelerated processing unit or APU going by the codename Llano. APU is AMD speak for a CPU and a graphics processor on one piece of silicon. AMD expects Sabine to bring significant power savings to notebook computers.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13440

AMD / ATI's expertise in the CPU and GPU area will surely let them do some cool things with that chip.

AMD's new roadmap was so huge, looks very exciting. They are bringing out new things in every area in the next 1-3 years and getting into new markets as well. GJ AMD


Edit - Is it just me or is AMD 100x better at naming things than Intel as well?

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Old 11-14-08, 04:32 PM   #7
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I'm surprised people are not noticing this, but this is it. These new roadmaps are amazing. The technology that will be made by AMD in the coming future will surely be some of the best stuff we have ever seen. But, the Deneb and Shanghai is the only thing that will allow this roadmap to become true. And even if Deneb and Shanghai make a success and up the profits, AMD will be putting everything on the line for the next 3 years.

What I can see is that they will be battling every front on the CPU and GPU side. AMD will be competing with Nvidia, and Intel at the same time. Doing price wars and bench wars. If AMD can not stay on top of these, then the roadmap will fail.

All this news about how AMD is going to be doing so great is just stories to me right now, and I consider myself a devoted fan. But I have to look at the truth. The truth is AMD still sits behind Intel and is just even with Nvidia right now. Even with the bad economy, this will still be a huge challenge for AMD.

And yes, AMD names their CPUs after cooler things. Unlike Nehalem.

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Old 11-20-08, 11:28 PM   #8
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But, the Deneb and Shanghai is the only thing that will allow this roadmap to become true.
The foundation. It is that. But it's a much more promising foundation than anything else we've seen in the last two, nearly three years! Also, 32nm is not that far off. Retooling of at least one of the Dresden plants is not far off. This is something real this time. No, it may revolutionize that industry and bring rich profits to AMD, but to , it leads me to believe AMD IS back in the game. I think it's more than talk this time.

Quote:
And even if Deneb and Shanghai make a success and up the profits, AMD will be putting everything on the line for the next 3 years.
Yeah, but at least this go round, they have something solid and competitive to put on that line.

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Old 11-21-08, 03:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
I'm surprised people are not noticing this, but this is it. These new roadmaps are amazing.
Their roadmaps were always amazing, until you dust of the latest one and check what should be out by now, like Kuma H1 08, Deneb FX, Deneb and Propus H2 08 Link.
I am sure some people who were around the Barcelona launch remember the smokes and mirror operation to save their stock from Barcs results.
Bulldozer and SSE5 might ring some bells, oh look those should be out in a few months as well. LINK

Some people fell for it. Link
Quote:
Originally Posted by savageseb
Along the Bulldozer CPUs and Sandtiger with SSE5. it will rip Nehalem apart. i give Nehalem no more than 3-4 months of shining if it comes out at the right time.
If I take a look at those roadmaps, I see some new promises and that Bulldozer gets pushed back 2 years when the samples should be out.

So with the roadmap update AMD's ondie gpu comes later than Intel's and SSE5 comes later than AVX as well which turns these attacks on Intel into responses from Intel's latest tech and possibly makes SSE5 worth as much as SSE4a.
How is all this good news ?

The best news these days didn't come from AMD themselves but from Intel, they pushed back basically everything a full quarter so all they have till Q3-Q4 is the old C2D and a luxury platform, which gives AMD an opportunity.

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Old 11-21-08, 08:09 AM   #10
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You can't blame AMD for pushing back CPUs. They only have 2 fab plants, and a third one coming in 2011. Now I am not saying I know all about the processor industry, but I bet it would be really hard for a company like AMD to produce, test, and design several different types of CPUs all at once. Currently they make the Phenom and Phenom II, which both of these have 2 different types of CPUs. Then there is the X2, and Opteron, and Laptop designed CPUs. That is 6 CPUs at once. If AMD was to continue and create these other CPUs, that have different features like SSE5, they would be going out of business more so then they are right now. I remember AMD trying to do this last year, and the year before. It all most put them out of business. They stick to what they are good at, keep the market in their favor, and then later down the line, try and create CPUs that are designed for a specific audience.

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Old 11-21-08, 09:03 AM   #11
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Well actually you can put some of the blame on AMD but the bulk goes on overenthusiastic
fanboys (Amd and Intel). Poor operations management, engineers looking forward too optimistically and giving unrealistic estimates (you can build a virtual machine on paper but to put it on silicon can be a hassle) and stockholders putting too much pressure on the cooperation without having an understanding of the fundamentals of processor design and production. As to the AMD fanboys same problem not having an understanding of the fundamentals of processor design and production. For the Intel fanboys they just egg it on and give an outsider false impressions about amd products.

EDIT: The roadmaps are a very best case scenario assuming perfect silicon and no engineering delays HMMMMM?? Guess the bulk of the blame goes to AMD management and stock holders.

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Old 11-21-08, 09:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
You can't blame AMD for pushing back CPUs. They only have 2 fab plants, and a third one coming in 2011.
Why not ? Weren't they the ones who made those slides ? A quarter or two late wouldn't be a big deal, things happen, but 2 years. They knew that deadline can not be held still they published it.
My intention was to remind people how much their Roadmaps worth.
By the way what does their fabs have to do with processor design ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
Now I am not saying I know all about the processor industry, but I bet it would be really hard for a company like AMD to produce, test, and design several different types of CPUs all at once.
Weren't they aware of that a year ago ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
Currently they make the Phenom and Phenom II, which both of these have 2 different types of CPUs. Then there is the X2, and Opteron, and Laptop designed CPUs. That is 6 CPUs at once.
I would recommend to read a bit about cpu architectures, to find out what is the difference between an Opteron and a Phenom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolk View Post
If AMD was to continue and create these other CPUs, that have different features like SSE5, they would be going out of business more so then they are right now.
I am complaining for a while for the lack of Kuma but they still make the bloody Brisbanes instead, does this mean they are trying to go out of business ?

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Old 11-21-08, 09:52 AM   #13
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Kuroimaho you are on the right track the road maps are partly posted to hope for blind investment "look what we are going to do buy our stock". The problem with this is that too many ppl have been burned by speculation in the past. If however I do believe that if AMD published more realistic road maps and could actually beat them they might build investor confidence. READ: AMD needs to fire the PR ppl and management needs to look to the past dev times and redesign the system they use to make projections.

BTW:I have seen up close how this crap goes down wish I could talk about it.

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Old 11-21-08, 11:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroimaho View Post
Why not ? Weren't they the ones who made those slides ? A quarter or two late wouldn't be a big deal, things happen, but 2 years. They knew that deadline can not be held still they published it.
My intention was to remind people how much their Roadmaps worth.
By the way what does their fabs have to do with processor design ?
I believe this is in reference to "where are the FX and X2 on Barcelona cores" and it does relate to FAB as having the bandwidth to run extra lines.

FX is enthusiast level which right now is not an AMD position for K10.
K10-X2 would make more sense to have released but considering tooling time is made more sense to just hold out for 45nm. 45nm should be more profitable providided we stop the world economic slide down the bung hole.

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Old 11-21-08, 11:08 AM   #15
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It would be a sad irony if the recession killed AMD just as they obtained the captal to become competitive again.

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Old 11-21-08, 01:12 PM   #16
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Wouldn't AMD not releasing Kumas dual cores a testament on how good their yield rates are? I mean aren't they just Phenom X4s with two core-lines cut?

If AMD did a MCM like Intel wouldn't K10 be much more profitable? IMO they should have given their financial situation and how HyperTransport is better than FSB.

Looking into the future.. AMD is going to have a hard time with AVX competing with SSE5, a later incarnation of Nehalem with integrated GPU (granted its Intel's GPU) competing with Fusion, and Larrabee competing with Radeon.

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Old 11-21-08, 01:23 PM   #17
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I read early specs on Larrabee and it will be no powerhouse for the aftermarket but it looks like a good board based solution.

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Old 11-21-08, 06:27 PM   #18
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I see my 5th AMD system on the horizon..... Damn, now I've surpassed the number of Intel systems I've had.....

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Old 11-22-08, 03:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrider View Post
If AMD did a MCM like Intel wouldn't K10 be much more profitable? IMO they should have given their financial situation and how HyperTransport is better than FSB.
Dirk Meyer himself said that a while before he became CEO.

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Old 11-22-08, 04:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Hate to be OT, but what are the main benefits of vitualization?

As I can see it if you use one OS and applications for that one OS there is no need for virtualization on desktop.

Is it much different for servers? Like can multiple users have multiple OSes with multiple applications on a server? I thought this was done on the client side..


Back on topic...

Now all AMD needs (at least on the graphics side) is more Linux CCC features and better OpenGL performance. If they can roll that all out in the 8.12 driver

package I will be as happy as a fat kid with chocolate cake.
I am a web developer and database administrator. VMWare Server is one of the most used tools on my workstation(s). I can run Windows 2008 x64, 2008 x86, Debian Etch and CentOS 5.2 on the VM's of my workstation with my code.

I might need/want a tool that is only available in Linux so i can also put Ubuntu as a VM and work on it from a VNC client. I usually Remote Desktop into a XP SP3 32bit VM at home when I work on my home workstation because the VPN client for my job is Cisco and doesn't support Vista 64, XP 64 or Ubuntu 64 which I run exclusively at home.

That is the power of VM on the desktop for me.

__________________
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