[AlabamaCajun]

Originally Posted by JasonBr

Sure hope so, Im an AMD stock holder. Dont laugh....

Buy More , I'm putting in this week.

[KTE]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

Their roadmaps were always amazing, until you dust of the latest one and check what should be out by now, like Kuma H1 08, Deneb FX, Deneb and Propus H2 08 Link.
I am sure some people who were around the Barcelona launch remember the smokes and mirror operation to save their stock from Barcs results.
Bulldozer and SSE5 might ring some bells, oh look those should be out in a few months as well. LINK

The best news these days didn't come from AMD themselves but from Intel, they pushed back basically everything a full quarter so all they have till Q3-Q4 is the old C2D and a luxury platform, which gives AMD an opportunity.

I have to agree with this, for an AMD perspective.

The lengthy string of TBD, TBA, NA and cancellations affecting supposed processors and processor models coming "in 2-3 months" for the past consecutive 18 months means the reliability of roadmaps is zilch. Incase people don't remember, Phenom 65nm naming, models and specs were wrong right till the last week it was launched. I only ever look to the present quarter and the next one in terms of roadmaps as bearing any reality. The rest is more to do with investor relations and putting on a show.

Honestly, obviously Intel also had delays but AMD had delays, major changes and cancellations in every segment they offered a product in for the past 18 months. The old "FX" rejuvenated is most likely also vanished, at least till after 2H 09.

[QuietIce]

Just remember guys - AMD is under new management.

I'm not sure you can apply the behavior of the last 1-2 years as a basis for future events ...

[KTE]

Originally Posted by QuietIce

Just remember guys - AMD is under new management.

I'm not sure you can apply the behavior of the last 1-2 years as a basis for future events ...

This is what remains to be seen. Shall we start?

The new management has been in a month or two?

Be honest, how many Client roadmap product delays have we seen take place in this period?

[QuietIce]

Originally Posted by KTE

This is what remains to be seen. Shall we start?

The new management has been in a month or two?

Be honest, how many Client roadmap product delays have we seen take place in this period?

In my experience most jobs take at least 6 months to get into the swing. At 2-3 months I wouldn't predict anything since a lot of the people that really run the place (like the sergeants in an army) are still running under SOPs from the last admin. We won't know until next spring how this admin will turn out ...

[Leonardo]

I think some of the changes are already evident. For starters, we're seeing much more now than just hearing marketing ding-dongs talk about it.

[Archer0915]

This may be of interest and if true I may buy one for my #2 system (holding out for the new X4 for my main system).

http://www.valleyseek.com/product.action?itemID=119355

[Kuroimaho]

Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun

FX is enthusiast level which right now is not an AMD position for K10.

We know that and they knew it as well when the slides were made.

Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun

K10-X2 would make more sense to have released but considering tooling time is made more sense to just hold out for 45nm.

They were aware of tooling times when they made the roadmaps.

Originally Posted by AlabamaCajun

45nm should be more profitable providided we stop the world economic slide down the bung hole.

I worry more about Intel price cuts if Deneb works out than the world economics, being fabless means they have smaller margins and C2D should have better yields by now than what K10.5 could match. A price war would favor intel.

Originally Posted by QuietIce

Just remember guys - AMD is under new management.

I'm not sure you can apply the behavior of the last 1-2 years as a basis for future events ...

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

I will trust them on this when they can keep up with their roadmaps for a change.
I know I should not expect honesty in business from someone when they are fighting for their existence, maybe this was the right choice or even the only way to keep up. If we had tho choose between fake roadmaps and AMD out we might have to thank them for this, but it still won't make me trust the slides until they can deliver close to their former expectatins.

Still this is effects less customers than the Vista incapable campaign.

This may be of interest and if true I may buy one for my #2 system (holding out for the new X4 for my main system).

Finally, I hope they still have this around Q2 when we will see whether FASN8 reborns or not with the new chipset.

[savageseb]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

Their roadmaps were always amazing, until you dust of the latest one and check what should be out by now, like Kuma H1 08, Deneb FX, Deneb and Propus H2 08 Link.
I am sure some people who were around the Barcelona launch remember the smokes and mirror operation to save their stock from Barcs results.
Bulldozer and SSE5 might ring some bells, oh look those should be out in a few months as well. LINK

Some people fell for it. Link


If I take a look at those roadmaps, I see some new promises and that Bulldozer gets pushed back 2 years when the samples should be out.

So with the roadmap update AMD's ondie gpu comes later than Intel's and SSE5 comes later than AVX as well which turns these attacks on Intel into responses from Intel's latest tech and possibly makes SSE5 worth as much as SSE4a.
How is all this good news ?

The best news these days didn't come from AMD themselves but from Intel, they pushed back basically everything a full quarter so all they have till Q3-Q4 is the old C2D and a luxury platform, which gives AMD an opportunity.

love it when you quote me kuro. now if you could quote me on the more techy side of things id be grateful...

now you see, i wont go too much into details, but i will defend myself, saying that an early 2006 technology is still competing with a late tech 2008, and not behind in performance.
if you look at my comparisons you will find how i macthed them, but noooooo
lets ignore the details for amin and have fun.


sse5 dies because intel wants it to die.

and las t but not least i quote myself

"As far as taking over the market monopoly, that is something i did not claim. I merely stated that AMD has a better Performing Core, Good enough to screw with Intel´s lead. Now i know that would only be if people were open minded enough to see the truth behind the crap hardware they buy."

which in truth i7, is only better at rendering and encoding.
i wonder how much 17 year old kev will be enconding while playin far cry....
oh wait thats right, deneb has better fps than i7
my bad....

edit: have fun kuro, ima go kick some ass playing soccer at the park... lol

[Kuroimaho]

Do not take it personally, I used one of the more extreme posts to illustrate how far the dreams of those could be from reality who believe AMD could do even better than their already way too optimist roadmaps.

Originally Posted by savageseb

sse5 dies because intel wants it to die.

I think I told you that a year ago exactly in my reply to your Bulldozer with SSE5 will kill Neha post, I am glad it went through by now. Link

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

SSE5 ? Come on (I already said that) if Intel won't support it and gonna make something different AMD has trouble to make people use it if another version is out by Intel, make it SSE6 or SSE4.C

Originally Posted by savageseb

which in truth i7, is only better at rendering and encoding.
i wonder how much 17 year old kev will be enconding while playin far cry....
oh wait thats right, deneb has better fps than i7
my bad....

I would wait a bit with taking that as a fact, so far the gaming benches show 45nm Optys fall between first gen K10 and Neha.

Of course if you have anything to back it up this time make a thread about it, lets keep this thread on track about AMD and not soccer.

[KTE]

Originally Posted by Archer0915

This may be of interest and if true I may buy one for my #2 system (holding out for the new X4 for my main system).

http://www.valleyseek.com/product.action?itemID=119355

We are being offered them for next week stock but the price is 14% higher than the last time they were offered.

They are only available on pre-order to distributors and I don't know what the wait time is, but this stock could yet again be the next set of batches to burst on from the latter, then vanish. In which case, it will be short lived and followed by a large supply gap to the next availability period. If such trends continue, then its obvious that they're waiting for failed quad and triple bins to salvage them into such a model. The TDP speaks for itself.

[Mr.Guvernment]

Originally Posted by >HyperlogiK<

It would be a sad irony if the recession killed AMD just as they obtained the captal to become competitive again.

not with Dubai buying into most of it they wont, could be why these roadmaps "sound" so promising now they have some serious funding.

but i wont beleive it until i see it, AMD has a ways to go and dont think Intel is sitting on their butt's doing nothing right now. i say amd has at least 1-2 years before they compete back with intel as they did with a64.

[Yahira]

I agree with with Mr. Guvernment.

With the Abu Dhabi investors backing them not only will they have the money to stay in business but also to "fight back".

These investors tend to be pretty aggressive, I don't think that while they have this much money on the line that they will give AMD time to sit around. They will keep pushing AMD to make up ground at an accelerated rate, possibly in a few years we could see AMD producing superior chips again.

I just don't think these investors are putting this much money on the line to look at staying second in chip development in the long term. They have a long way to go and it will be years in the doing but I think the goal these investors have in mind isn't to take a small piece of the pie from intel, I think they are shooting to push intel over some. It won't be fast, no delusions that it will be but given years/decade or so they just might become a serious threat for the blue chip giant.

I would say give them a couple of years and see where they stand. After they get AMD headed in the direction they want there is a good possibility that they may bring some more investors on board. The advantage that intel has in the money department wouldn't hold up for long with that kind of funding. The tech partnership with IBM and I am sure the expansion of their own RnD department will probably be utilized a lot more as they move to close the gap with intel.

I know many will laugh when reading this, go ahead. Looking at the position they are in right now it is pretty hard to imagine. I'm just looking at the fact that given enough money AMD can obtain a rather good place in the market. Let's face it, these guys have some pretty deep pockets and they have some friends who also have some pretty deep pockets. Would it be too much of a stretch to say that their end goal is to have some control over a large company that sells the type of products used in every computer on the planet? Or that they would do everything they could to make that company have as much market share as they possibly can? Just don't think that they are getting into this to stay in second place forever (or at least a second place that only has a relatively small market share).

Now I suppose we get to see if they achieve the goal and how long it takes them if they do. Intel won't be sitting on their butts and letting it happen (or I hope not anyway) so it might make things interesting for the next few years at least.

[Kuroimaho]

I did not expect the instruction set war to come to a next step so soon, but Intel found a supporter.

WARP10 stands for Windows Advanced Rasterization Platform and is part of DirectX 11, which is supposed to be released alongside the Windows 7 launch. Basically WARP10 is about non-DX10 compliant hardware (especially multi-core CPUs) rendering/accelerating DirectX 10 applications. So for example CPUs are able to accelerate DirectX 10 games.

WARP10 also supports DirectX 10.0 as well as DirectX 10.1. DirectX 11 games can also be emulated via fallbacks to DirectX 9 or DirectX 10 level. Even optional texture formats, anti-aliasing up to 8x, anisotropic filtering as well as 32 and 64 bit applications are supported. As minimal requirements Microsoft specifies a CPU with 800 MHz and 512 MiByte RAM - MMX, SSE or SSE2 aren't compulsory, but especially SSE2 and SSE 4.1 are supposed to deliver additional performance. WARP10 runs independently from the graphics card.

The biggest difference to the hitherto used software rasterizer seems to be that WARP10 makes intensive use of multi-core CPUs. The best performance is supposed to be obtained on quad-core CPUs. Furthermore WARP10 seems to run notably faster with SSE 4.1.

Source

Guess who doesn't have SSE4.1 support, I won't be surprised if Intel will make lot of Warp10 benches. As long as it is used for fallback AMD might be on top because their IGPs can be used for 3D unlike Intel's but if games will come out with adding more effects if someone has a few unused cores this might matter.

[Firestrider]

Great now you can run Core i7 965 at a whooping 7 FPS in Crysis at 800x600.

Though I do agree this software rasterizer is a good thing for AVX and Larrabee, it still isn't going to turn heads just yet.

[Mr.Guvernment]

Originally Posted by Kuroimaho

I did not expect the instruction set war to come to a next step so soon, but Intel found a supporter.



Source

Guess who doesn't have SSE4.1 support, I won't be surprised if Intel will make lot of Warp10 benches. As long as it is used for fallback AMD might be on top because their IGPs can be used for 3D unlike Intel's but if games will come out with adding more effects if someone has a few unused cores this might matter.

i can see why intel wants to do this cause intels IGP suck already and already dump all the work off to the CPU anyways cause2 they are too lazy to write decent drivers, unlike ATI and NVIDIA. sad when an intel X3100 IGP cant even play 720p content alone.